why do certain people tip less the accepted 15-20% norm?

[private_ryan]

is it ignorance, don't have the cash or they're cheap?

on edit: I mean mostly. I know it's a combo of all of the above but I mean most of them.

[JohnKleeb]

1. all three have happened

I remember I was in a group setting in 8th grade Civics this was also the year of the theft, now we had to write down whether we considered something a duty, responsiblity, or right, so we got to tipping and all, the girls and guys I was working with said it was a right, I said it was responsiblity because my dad was a waiter at the time I think and you should tip, its not easy work I can tell you.

[Ramsey]

2. Bad service

As far as I am concerned, a tip should not be automatic, it should be earned. If I get good service I give 20%. If I don't I give a small tip to let the server know I didn't forget but that they didn't earn any more. In fact, I will usually tell the server why they are getting small tip, so maybe they will improve or find a more suitable occupation.

[TrogL]

3. stupidity

They think waiters are sub-human and don't need money. Money should be spent on priveleged people who deserve it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. usually it's because they're cheap; sometimes they're 'grading'

[Fenris]

5. In my town, it's out of sheer asshole-ism.

These people are so goddamn rich, but they tip horribly.

[Maple]

6. A tip is a little extra money

for extra good service..over and above the job.....it is not a requirement to tip.

It means your employer can pay you less as well, because the customer is subsidizing him.

And if I tip...I tip what I choose...not some prearranged percentage.

[private_ryan]

7. it's not required but in a sense it is

the waiter is getting around $2 an hour without your tip.

[private_ryan]

20. I'm almost tempted to see what was said in the other respose

it just says ignored. Of well...

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. Maple I think you are up in Canada. Correct?

Here in the states, the industry bought off the legislature and servers make a bare minimum. Without tips they really can't live on what they make.

It is one thing if people get bad service, but 15% is the well established norm for dining out.

I usuallt tip 20 to 25% if service is good ..10 to 15 if it is fair to even poor. I won't stiff a server unless they are downright disrespectful which really doesn't happen much.

[Maple]

27. Yes, I'm in Canada

And we have a minimum wage...the employer is required to pay the waiter a fair wage, so any tips s/he gets are for extra good service and meant to be gravy to the employee, not a subsidy to the employer.

I can't believe waiters in the US are treated that badly!

If they are, then I can understand them wanting tips...but this is letting the employer get away with paying slave wages.

Sorry, I was unaware this was the practice.

[LynneSin]

58. Yes, but the US system allowed me to work as a Waitress for 3 years

while I was reorganizing my life after my first major career failure.

I was a product of the first Bush Recession - lost my job in 1991 when the company that hired me out of college had to make job cutbacks. I was young and expendible. After 3 years of Selling Cars, Weight Loss Programs, Dating Services and a variety of other dead end jobs I had no choice but to collect unemployment. And in the US, setting up Unemployment can be one of the most humiliating experiences out there.

A week later I took a job at a local Houlihans restaurant where I spent 3 years waiting tables and taking classes and figuring out what I wanted to do with my life. I wasn't getting anywhere in sales and I was miserable in general with my life.

I would have not survived waiting tables if I had to make $6-7/hour and hope that people tip me if they so inclined to do so. That's a salary of around $15k/year and I knew I needed twice so that I could pay for school, all my bills (I live on my own) and be able to enjoy doing stuff from time to time.

Working at Houlihans I averaged close to $30k per year. The measily $2/hour covered the crappy health benefits you could get (which believe me was better than nothing!) and I hustled my ass off to earn that 20% tip, because waiting tables you rarely get to keep all of those tips; not after you tip out the bartenders, food runners and buskids.

I hope to god I never have to wait a table ever again, but I have no regrets for those 3 years I was at Houlihans. After 2.5 years, I felt my life was adjusted enough and the market was doing well enough that I could maybe get an entry level job in a new field. Seven years later I'm still working in the same field with a great position (and crossing my fingers that this Bush recession won't get the best of me)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

59. Exactly Right

Even for downright poor service, I would never tip below 10% (well, unless the server cussed me out or threw water in my face, or something, but that's never happened to me...but something like that would certainly merit zero tip and a complaint to management, to boot). For barely passable service, I tip at least 15%, and most of the time I tip 18-25% for good to great service (and even higher in bars, in the 20-33% range).

DTH

[Ohio Dem]

8. Many reasons, I suppose.

Some people don't think a tip is necessary. "They're getting paid, aren't they?"

Some people use the tip as a grade for the server. Poor service = bad or no tip. I don't really have a problem with that.

Some people can't afford it. I think if you can't afford to tip, you probably can't afford to eat out. Spend that money at the grocery store on much more food.

Some people don't realize that they are supposed to tip.

[Insider]

9. yoohoo, rbnyc

she helped me see the light on tipping. i'm sure she'll be glad to break it down when she gets back on her feet, or on her keyboard.

i do tip more now, but i still believe the system needs fixing. service personnel should earn a living wage, and owners/operators should step up to that plate. IMO

[LynneSin]

61. But a living wage waitressing is better with the current system

When I needed a job to help support myself when I went back to school, $6-8/hour wasn't going to do the trick. At a decent restaurant and hey, I was working Houlihans which isn't exactly 5 star dining, you can make $15-20 an hour if you know how to hustle.

Keep the system where it's at.

[JVS]

10. Why should it be calculated by percentage?

It only punishes waiters of restaurants that have good prices

[private_ryan]

11. generally speaking

higher check averages = less tables. If people spend $75 a head you will not have more than 2-3 tables, but if you work at truck stop where burgers and Coors Light are the norm the sky is the limit...

[JVS]

12. yeah but there are equivalent food options for different prices

If you're getting a Burger at Fudruckers or Hooters or any of the J.T McPickleshitter type restaurants you'll get nothing better than at a local bar and Grill and it will cost more.

[private_ryan]

14. % is the only way to be somewhat consistent

If the check is $100 you know that tipping $20 is very good tip. Tipping $5 - $7 a head is not good and tipping $10 a head is not enough if the check is $150.

personally if my check is $20 I usually leave like $6 since it's a low check average

[Cassandra]

13. Once I gave an insulting tip...

to the single worst waiter I have ever seen. I had ordered a cheeseburger (no Belushi jokes, please) and he brought first a ham and cheese sandwich, then a cheese omelet, then something else with cheese the third time. I wanted to yell at him, "WRITE IT DOWN!" It took something over half an hour to get my food, my friend had already finished hers and all we could talk about was what an ass the guy was. I left a penny in a glass of water (a John Lennon thing) so that he would know that I hadn't just forgotten because I'm a woman, and so that he would have to fish it out. Notice that it takes someone being massively incompetent to get tipped so badly by me. Normally, I'm a decent but not lavish tipper.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

17. Yeah but everyone has an off night

[JohnKleeb]

19. yeah and they are HUMAN beings

My dad when he waited tables had nights like these.

[Cassandra]

29. Seriously, this guy was on another planet.

It was in the afternoon, the place was small and not full, and all we had ordered was the cheeseburger (there was no choice with the cheese) and a bowl of chile (can you tell he didn't actually lose much tip?) If someone can't manage two basic items on the menu, then he needs to consider another job. He had a pad; writing down the order is what it's for. He kept coming over, saying, "Ham and cheese, right?" And I would say politely, "No, I ordered a cheeseburger". By the third round of that, he's lucky I didn't hit him with something. As far as I know, I was not on Candid Camera but it felt like that.
Notice I barely touched on the lousy service that women got for years, for which they were expected to tip as well as the men who got much better service.

[private_ryan]

18. checked your profile: don't double the tax

when you come over to eat in NJ :). It's only 12%!!!!!

[roughsatori]

16. If I think the service is poor I leave 15% plus 2 pennies

Most people who are waiters in bigger cities know that is code for bad service (well, I hope they know). If the service is awful I will inform the hostess and leave before the entrie arrives.

I don't understand why some people seem to want to lord it over the waiter regarding the tip.

[private_ryan]

23. so many things can go wrong and the waiter is the person you see

understaffed, the cooks are idiots, items are 86ed, tickets get lost etc and the waiter is there taking all the heat from the guests.

15% is not bad, usually the waiter know when things went wrong and if he doesn't he still can't complain about the 15%.

[roughsatori]

30. I leave more than 15% for good service

But I have been told that the 2 cents is known as a way of saying "you did a bad job." But I am a sucker and have left some of my biggest tips for incompetent but nice waiters. I always feel like they'll be fired and they might need the money. I tend to cheer for the underdog in life though.

[Catshrink]

21. A friend of mine says you shouldn't be allowed to eat in restaurants ...

unless you've waited tables. It puts things in perspective. I usually tip well, but when it's bad, I leave a very small tip. Once when I got really bad service in a chain, I emailed corporate and got a nice response from them and a call from the regional manager. Then he sent me a free meal coupon.

If the waitperson takes care of me and my buds, doesn't get in our faces, and does a good job, it's about 20%. If not, a bit less. It's a crappy way to make a living...but at least those jobs won't get exported to India or Mexico.

[nuxvomica]

22. I think most of them never worked for tips

I worked for tips in High School and it sticks with you. That's why I can't go below 20% unless the service was downright abusive.

[seemslikeadream]

24. I don't know anyone who has "served"

for a living that would leave less than 20% when eating out. We have respect.

[WoodrowFan]

48. Waiting

I used to be a cook and my wife used to be a waitress (no, we didn't meet that way). We can usually tell when something is the kitchen's fault and when the waiter screwed up. We don't punish the waiter for the chef's errors ...

We do lessen the tip for poor service, keeping in mind how many tables the waiter is working, how busy they are, etc. Not refilling our drinks because they have 10 other tables is one thing, not refilling them when we're their only customer is another!


I have left a penny as a tip before, waiter was AWFUL. Once the service was so bad, we left a little money on the table for the drinks and walked out. On the way out I stopped some people coming in and told them to go soemwhere else as this resturant had the worst service EVER. Turns out it was the resturant owner I was speaking too! We got our money back, a coupon for a free meal (which we pitched), and a VERY reluctant "apology" from the waiter. "I'm sorry but I don't know what I have to be sorry for..." The resturant closed soon thereafter..

BTW, a REALLY insulting "your service sucked" tip is not just a penny, but a Canadian penny! No offense to the Canadians here, but the waiter can't spend it and it's only worth about 2/3ds of a US penny. I'd save that for the true waiter from HELL....

[Cassandra]

55. Canadian pennies circulate here in NY

and most stores will accept them (one at a time)without a fuss. Dimes can be hard to unload, though, and Canadian quarters; absolutely not.

[Pert_UK]

25. In the UK 10% is normal - in China / Australia / Thailand then NO TIPPING

So it may be cultural (sometimes).

Sometimes it may be bad service.

I must admit that I've been to the States and got abused by a waitress when I left a restaurant because we only left a few coins in change as a tip after she'd given us the WORST service I have ever had in my life.

20% is a lot of money to add on to an order isn't it? Is it really normal?

P.

[private_ryan]

26. Europeans are the worst around 10%, Japanese 15%

generally speaking of course. the Japanese to their creadit are the best, they never complain no matter how bad thinsg go. I wonder if it's their culture...

is it a lot? It's s system set. The prices you pay assume that you'll leave a 15% - 20% tip, otherwise you'd pay an extra $1 for the beer, $5 extra for the steak etc. 99.99% of the people follow it (tip at least something) so it works.

[Pert_UK]

34. "Worst" is a bit harsh.......

In most of Europe, 10% would be fine for a tip - you can't necessarily expect people to research the correct level of tipping in every country they visit (although I do).

P.

[private_ryan]

35. why is it harsh when it's the reality?

10% might be fine over there but it isn't here, and that's what I'm taking about.

[mitchum]

36. I've had lots of friends who are servers and they insist that Brits are...

the absolute worst tippers. And my friends never buy the "but they haven't learned the US standard" so...they usually just go ahead and spit in their food beforehand.

[Rabrrrrrr]

43. True, though

Bad enough that quite a number of NYC restaurants have on their menu a disclaimer that "In America, it is normal to tip 15%, because the wages of waiters/waitresses is blah blah not so high blah blah blah". I can't remember the wording, but the intent is to let the Europeans know that in America, it's rare for the tip to be included in the final total, unlike Europe, and that tipping is normal here because of low minimum wage for waitresses/waiters. Because so many times, and I've heard this from friends who work in NYC, Europeans come in, order lots of food and drinks, etc., require a lot of service, and leave NOTHING for a tip. nada.

There are other cultures that don't tip well, if at all, but I can't mention that here on DU, but I will say that in NYC, a few restaurants who tend to cater to tourists and certain cultures, WILL add a mandatory tip - not based on number of people at the table (which is by far the norm, say 6 or more is automtica tip includedin bill) but based on time - Dallas BBQ has a mandatory tip, for parties of ANY size, starting early in the evening. I can only assume because they're waiters/waitresses were getting screqwed so often by cultures that don't tip.

I find it offensive, becasue I always tip generously, and the mandatory tip is always less than what I would tip normally, but I can understand why they do it. They got burned by cheap bastards far, far too many times. So I don't blame them at all. They deserve SOMETHING.

[Kellanved]

47. Or they could change their prices...

and pay their waiters a better wage. In Restaurants frequented by tourists the prices tend to bit high anyway.

And while I knew that Tips in the US ought to be higher, that fact is missing in many travel guides.
The tip is usually 10% in Europe; less if the service wasn't satisfactory. If the meal was more expensive than usual (meaning you spent a lot in a middle-class Restaurant) the Tip seldom exceeds €15- €20.

[Rabrrrrrr]

52. Absolutely - minumum wage for wairstaff should be normal

minumum wage. I'ev never understand the stupido reasoning that "Well, they get tips, so they don't need to be paid a livable wage."

'scuse me?

The waitstaff minimum wage is an insult to decent human beings.

But it's been a long tradition, so hard to say if it will ever change...

[JackSwift]

28. Some people tip poorly

to demonstrate their character to those watching. They are trying to say that they are important, powerful mavericks who can do what they want and are immune to what others think about them. I conclude that they are unbelieveable assholes who would not hesitate to screw someone as long as they can get away with it. If you know how someone tips, you know if you want to do business with them, work with them, date them, be friends with them.

[NightTrain]

31. Because we're living on a tight budget, perhaps?

That certainly applies to me!

[private_ryan]

32. I sympathize but if you can't afford to tip

you can't afford to eat out, at least not at the ones that people serve you. You don't see me eating at fancy places...

[JackSwift]

33. 15% minimum

otherwise you are taking advantage of very hard working people. There are plenty of places with good food that don't have food servers (waiters and waitresses).

[demgrrrll]

39. What about buffets? The person does bring tea and water but I am never

quite sure how much to tip. I leave 15% because I believe that they are making minimum wage or less.

[private_ryan]

42. on buffets you tip less than 20% because fo the obvious

some leave 10% and I see their point but I'd still leave 15%...

[I AM SPARTACUS]

37. Question: Do you know how much a circumcisionist makes???

200 bucks a pop, plus tips...

[Rabrrrrrr]

40. That's a mohil (or mohel)

But yeah, they make good money. And they can do 8-10 brises a day. Good money. The one my boss hired a couple years ago, that's his full time job. All he does is circumcisions and the short prayer/worship service. He was excellent. Done far more circumcisions than almost any doctor, that's for sure.

Darn good money to be had. Especially if you can do brises on the upper east side or in Scarsdale. :-)

[I AM SPARTACUS]

41. ummm...

plus TIPS...

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. Some tips, I don't think they keep...

at least, *I* wouldn't...

:evilgrin:

[Rabrrrrrr]

38. Cuz they're cheap bastards

or else had bad service.

I strive, diligently, for more than 20%.

For bad service - especially that one absoutely obnoxious French wannabe bastard at some psuedo-French restaurant I will never go back to at 115th and Broadway - I'll happily give damn near nothing, and in his case did give almost nothing. No regrets. What an obnoxious, unhelpful, arrogant, pretentious asshole he was.

bad food, I'll stip tip - that's not the waitress/waiter problem. Bad service - a big f--- you to the server.

I've given certainly in the 30% range at times for really good service, especially for servers I know (that is, places I go to often where we always get the same server becuase it's just assumed that server is "ours"). We also once - at Gallaghers, one of the worst POS steak houses in NYC - six of us, all professionals, went there one night for a friend's birthday party, and not only were we treated like shit, our food was bad, the steaks were pathetic, and the waiters treated us with contempt the entire evening, even after we ordered a couple hundred bucks worth of wine. Our bill for the six of us was about $450-500, and I think we left a $10 tip, maybe not even that high. Every one of us was really pissed off at the service. Hilarious part of the evening - the asshole waiter, after seeing the tip, coming to the table and demanding that "Get out of our restaurant - cheapy cheapy". Verbatim - "cheapy cheapy". And it wasn't like we were idiot rubes - all experienced expensive restaurant people, a couple guys from very wealthy families, the type who would go out every night and normally order wines in the $500 range and up, but held back this night because not all of us could do that (whew!). We weren't rude, or obnoxious, nor did we come like out of towner idiots, we all had suits on, respectable, everything. The wait staff simply decided we weren't worth shit, and treated us thus all night.

God, what an awful evening. Never eat at Gallaghers. Never eat at Smith and Wollensky's. All shit steak. If you want good steak in NYC, you have the Old Homestead and Del Friscos. I haven't hit Peter Luger yet, but I have a feeling I will like their steaks, too. But I've not had good steak at any steakhouse except Old Homestead and Del Friscos. And I will totally solicit del Friscos as best steak house in NYC, barring the fact I've not done Peter Lugers.

But to get back to tips - if you aren't doing at least 15%, preferably 20%, you're screwing the waiter/waitress.

[Pert_UK]

45. I just don't understand why people don't get paid properly anyway.....

I mean, there can't be that many other professions where the employer pays you pretty much nothing and you have to rely on the good nature of your customers....

Generally speaking, most other societies pay a decent wage and then tips are added on top......Many UK restaurants automatically add an optional service charge onto your bill to deal with this, others leave it down to you, but they pay a "reasonable" amount in the first place...

Hmmmmmm......this is beginning to sound like the start of Reservoir Dogs...

P.

[WoodrowFan]

49. Poor wages and tips

I mean, there can't be that many other professions where the employer pays you pretty much nothing and you have to rely on the good nature of your customers....

waiting tables and strippers are the only two I can think of...

[Xithras]

46. I'll admit that I'm a cheap, unsympathetic grader

Seriously, I've been known to tip up to 50% for exceptional service (and I mean the buns had better be re-warmed after sitting on my table for 5 minutes exceptional service), and I'll tip 15% for waiters that get my order right on the FIRST try and seem like they generally care about the quality of my meal, but I typically tip in more of the 10% range. Why? Because most waiters I've met are pretty apathetic about the whole thing, and I have a real hard time being generous to waiters that I have to chase down in order to get service, who repeatedly get my order wrong, who leave my food under a heat lamp for 20 minutes before bringing it to my table, or who otherwise couldn't give a damn whether my meal is enjoyable or not. Sadly, this group encompases about 90% of the waiters and waitresses I've met. The simple act of stopping by my table from time to time to see if I need anything goes a long way towards earning that 15%-20% tip, but I never cease to be amazed at how few waiters bother.

The stingiest tip I ever made was to a waiter that not only got my order wrong three times, but spilled wine on my wife and then made us wait over 30 minutes for our bill. I didn't want to tip him at all, but it was a $150 dinner and my wife was insistent that I leave something...so I left a shiny new quarter sitting in the middle of my plate. Yes, I can be a pretty big prick when I'm annoyed :evilgrin:

[WoodrowFan]

50. tipping extra for time

Since my wife was a waitress we also tip extra if we sit and talk after dinner for a long time, to make up for the tip the waiter lost from not being able to serve another party at the same table...

[Rabrrrrrr]

51. That's quite good of you

I also try to tip a bit extra if I've taken up a possible income generating table out of service for a while. Though usually if we're sitting at a table for a long time, we're also still ordering drinks.

[CO Liberal]

53. I Tip Less When The Service Sucks

Remember, "tip" is really an acronym for "To Improve Performance". Good service, I tip more - lousy service, they should be happy I tip them at all.

[MissMillie]

54. Acceptable service gets acceptable tip

Great service gets a big tip.

Lousy service gets a lousy tip.

Counter service gets no tip. (Except for bartenders)

[Enraged_Ape]

56. What about tipping at Starbucks-type places?

I order a coffee; the guy hands me the coffee I ordered. I'm supposed to tip for this? And how much?

[Rabrrrrrr]

57. Especially considering that Starbucks actually pays well

NYC seems to be getting more and more of the "tip jar" thing going on . . . for some reason I feel compelled to tip at Starbucks, which is annoying, because they make a good 4 times or more the waitstaff minumum wage.

Argh!

[Enraged_Ape]

62. I don't tip at these types of places

I'm sorry, but if I buy food or drink and someone hands it to me at the cash register, they gave me what I paid for and nothing else in particular. I just don't see how that's "tippable" as far as service.

On the other hand, if I go to a sit-down type of restaurant and someone serves me my Guinness with the proper head on it, brings me bread when the basket gets low, checks up on me every so often to make sure I'm not choking or there's not a hair in the soup, then THAT's service. I have no problem tipping handsomely (20-25%) for that, and even the minimum (15%) if the service is crappy.

ON EDIT: I should qualify that I do tip bartenders, as there is a certain amount of service involved in the proper preparation and presentation of a drink, plus they, like other waitstaff, converse with you and check on you from time to time.

[wyldwolf]

60. I don't feel servers should "automtically" get anything...

...some might say it is grading, but if the service is lousy for no obvious reason, they may not get tipped.

Then again, there are acceptable reasons for bad service. The wait staff may be short handed and the server may have more tables than he/she should be expected to handle. Then, I often over-tip because the server is doing the best he/she can.