I need some dog advice.

[hedgehog]

Lassie was our first dog, a collie mix with a sense of humor. She walked up one day and ended up staying.

Jack was left as a puppy in my car. He was a largish hound mix. He tended to be a little nervous and a little territorial. He REALLY didn't like the barn cats.

We got Guinness as a puppy after Lassie died. He is a Beagle/Shepherd mix. He was the smaller auxiliary dog as far as Jack was concerned. They got along well and tended to hang out together. Guinness tends to be rather carefree although he doesn't make jokes the way Lassie used to. He loves to play tug of war and will grab his leash in his mouth and tug on it. Occasionally he gets loose and tears around the yard chasing my chickens. He likes the cats and used to carry one of the kittens around in his mouth and take her to his den on the stair landing and lick her. Puppy or Prey? He also "grooms" mice if he gets hold of them.

Lassie was spayed, Jack and Guinness were neutered.

Jack died suddenly a few weeks ago. Today we took Guinness down to the pound to look at getting another dog. He barked and snapped at a lovely 2 year old neutered male Lab and a younger shepherd mix, both males. Guinness may have been nervous being away from his home territory, but the lady at the pond suggested that he doesn't want an older dog around to challenge his authority and that if we want to add another dog we better look at getting a puppy.

Comments?

[XemaSab]

1. We got a puppy two weeks ago

She's 6 months old, but still a very young dog in many ways.

We've got a 5 year old female and a 3 year old male, both fixed.

I think if we had gotten an older dog there would have been trouble. Pippi still challenges her on a daily basis, and Maddy just completely submits every time. If we had an older, less submissive dog, I don't think it would have worked out. I think it might also help that Maddy is physically smaller than the other two.

[old mark]

2. Shelter lady is right.

Dogs really hate change, and I believe Guiness missed Jack, and now feels in command.Our dog was the Alpha dog of a group os 6 at his former home, and still feels like he commands every dog in the neighborhood - and us as well.

You probably will be better off with a puppy or young dog who will submit to Guiness.

FWIW, thanks for going to the shelter for your pets.

mark

[flvegan]

3. My comment: the lady at the pound is an idiot.

You can't make a comment like that based on this experience. I'd also like to add that a shelter environment is a terrible experience for any dog, especially the family pet coming in with his/her owner to meet a potential new packmate. Dogs smell the fear, pain and death (if it's a kill shelter) when they walk in the door. All the animals are stressed and some are sick. Also, an older dog doesn't automatically mean that there will be any challenge to authority. Dominance gets worked out between the dogs, and oftentimes the smaller or younger (or both) dog will become the dominant dog.

This is a tough process and I hope you're patient and find a great new packmate to adopt.

Thanks for going to the shelter to adopt, too. Best dogs in the world come from the shelters (and broken chains).

[Inchworm]

8. LoL

Agreed!

:rofl:

[mopinko]

10. agreed

dogs will work it out, as long as you are the pack leader. if they are completely in charge, you might have trouble. but really, dogs are pack animals. they accept other dogs once they figure it out.

and rescuers can be nuts. just sayin'.

[flvegan]

12. "Can be"?

I think it's a requirement sometimes.

[mopinko]

14. i'm sure.

i just have seen a lot of them that want to find perfect angels and perfect homes to the point where they don't let go of animals. i get it. but you just have to keep it real.
i think the shelter folks are better, but the breed rescues can be nuts. and don't get me started about parrots.
those that do it, and don't lose it are a breed apart. i know you are one of them.

[nadine_mn]

19. LMAO... nuts is sooo right..our one adpoted pup

almost didnt happen. We were looking for a male puppy (since we had a 2 yr female) and scoured the pound and humane society. Then on a cold cruddy day, as we were leaving the humane society a guy was walking in with a box of puppies to surrender.

Now, in Des Moines (where we were at the time), you had to pay $5 per dog you dropped off, and then there was a waiting period and list to adopt the puppies - because they had to be vaccinated and stuff.

Well we wanted a puppy NOW... lol, and since the guy hadn't surrended them yet, he could just give us one. Well the shelter worker said we had to get off the property in order to take one (which I understand, so there would be no implied warranty or connection with the shelter). So we walked off the property and started to examine the pups. The lady was still SCREAMING at us that we were not far enough off. We walked further, more screaming, mind you the weather was cruddy, we were out by a busy road, and all we wanted was to take a puppy.

We were nearly on the side of the highway and she kept screaming at us to move closer to the highway. Finally an employee pulled her in and shut her up.


11 years, we still we have him and love him to pieces, but will never forget that nut who screamed at us.

[nadine_mn]

4. Oh I got this.... seriously

Finally I can help someone:

1) The best transistion is a dog opposite in sex and age. You can go older or younger. Age, sex, or size is not an indicator of dominance.

We have 3 dogs (and a guest who is permanent now... so 4) and a cat, everyone is 2 yrs apart and neutered/spayed.

Collie mix female is now 13
Lab mix male is 11
Cat male is 9
Lab mix female is 7
Guest dog is German Shep male 3

Our pack order is : Collie mix is alpha to the whole pack, then lab mix female, lab mix male, and german shep is figuring it out.
Our lab mix male outweighs everyone, but he prefers to be dominated by the females (smart dog) but there is some adjusting with german shep.


2) The initial meeting of your dog and a potential new family member should be in a neutral location... like a park. Pounds are extremely stressful and neither dog will be on their best behavior. That way neither pet feels like their turf is challenged.

3) Know the breed history as much as you can (granted difficult with mutts) and find out why the dog is up for adoption. Some dogs love other dogs, some want to be the only child.

4) Wait a few months before getting another dog. Guinness needs to grieve, and your new dog will be able to smell the scent of Jack and be confused.




I hope this helps...

[hedgehog]

7. I was wondering if a female dog might be a better option, but the

only female they had is a very active young Lab who is going to need a lot of attention and discipline. I don't think we were a good fit for her.

[truedelphi]

18. Those are wonderful tips. And the grief thing makes sense also. n/t

[lukasahero]

5. I'll chime in half way between the lady is right and she's an idiot :)

It's always easier to introduce a puppy - puppies aren't inclined to even think about the establishment of dominance - they're puppies - they've been below everybody their "whole" lives. That doesn't mean an older dog can't work - if you have the patience or, probably more correctly, the willingness to let them work it out themselves.

I would recommend at the very least taking both dogs out of the actual shelter and to a play area if possible. Also, consider the confinement of the two dogs - is one on a leash and the other in a cage? They need to meet on equal terms so that they *can* work that dominance thing out - I prefer not on a leash if possible but if one is leashed, the other should be as well.

Watch both dogs while they meet to read their body language really understand what's going on. Lots of peole thought my pup was being 'vicious' when she was just establishing fair ground. Dogs understand each other better than we do - try again in a more neutral, less stressful situation and you may well have different results.

[hedgehog]

6. The people at the shelter suggested that we might want to try again in the Spring when the dogs can

be outside.

I'm a believer in a kind of animal magic - if you have a spot for a pet, one will turn up!

[wartrace]

9. I had six dogs when an older dog showed up, she was rejected.

She was two or three years old and the dogs attacked her. Of course I didn't let it get out of hand. I found her a good home on a farm and have been getting regular e-mails from the family who love her. The eldest female & mother to all the pups I have passed away. A few months later a young pup showed up. She was greeted into the pack with open paws. One dog took a particular liking to her & they hang out constantly playing to this day. There was no question she was staying, everyone loved her. So, I suggest a pup.

This is Lucy the night of her arrival. The other dogs STILL love her despite her size (she is twice the size of any of the other dogs). She is still submissive to the others. She knows how to play the dog game.

[3dogday]

11. I love Lucy!

And I agree about the age thing,,,if your dogs are older, find a young submissive pup. I don't think gender matters as much as age and the leader/follower dynamic. Just my opinion.

[Jamastiene]

13. I would pick out a dog and let them work it out between them.

It is a nice gesture on your part to try to let your dog pick their own other dog out like that, but to the dog, a shelter is a traumatic place full of fear, loneliness, and isolation. Dogs can sense those uncertain or fearful feelings in other dogs and that may be why your dog was uncomfortable in that situation.

Or it could be that your dog likes being an "only child."

[hedgehog]

15. Talking it over when we got home, we relaized that we 've always introduced a pup as the

new dog in town.

I suspect that some people would be able to introduce an older dog to this situation, but given our dog keeping skills I think we'll wait for a pup to show up. As I said above, I'm a firm believer that where there is a spot waiting, an animal shows up to fill it!

[Orsino]

16. Bless you for adopting pound pooches.

Guinness isn't likely to appreciate another dog right off the bat, no matter what age or size. It may be that he'll find puppies less threatening, but I have a suspicion that the specific chemistry may be more important than age/size. :shrug:

You may find it easier to integrate a female, though, who won't set off the same dominance alarms.

[Arkansas Granny]

17. I would be more inclined to think that Guinness was trying to convince

these other dogs of his Alpha status from the get go. Dogs have a way of sorting these things out.

If you think he was too aggressive with them, you might consider introducing him to a female instead and see how that works out. Even if they are spayed, females tend to have a different effect on a male dog. That statement may be a little biased on my part because I much prefer females for pets. In general, I have found females easier to socialize and they seem to get along better with other animals. I know there are exceptions, just talking about my own experience.