DU queers, check into this safe haven.

[foreigncorrespondent]

It's a rough place to be queer here at DU. I try not to get too discouraged - I don't want to end up leaving someplace I have enjoyed so much.

It seems the gay marriage issue has brought people out full force against us. I've gotten to the point where I hide threads with gay marriage in the subject line. I can't believe that people who share so many beliefs with me, who are compassionate and caring to those who are different and those who suffer think nothing of attacking my very life.

I don't want this to be a flamefest, I want this to be a place for those of us queers to stand up and be counted.

I can only hope if we express our hurt at these attacks maybe some people will see how we feel and come to understand how wrong it is to say some of the things that have been said.

[arcos]

1. checking in! n/t

[slinkerwink]

2. sadly here.

[foreigncorrespondent]

4. Slink...

...Gotta keep giving you cuddles my friend. (((((((((((Slink)))))))))))))))

[southerngirlwriter]

3. Hmmm....

The non-Christian safe haven thread was an obvious attempt at mockery. Nonetheless, I stayed out of it, just as I wish the mockers had stayed out of the Christian "safe haven" thread. It's such a simple thing to respect someone else's very reasonable wishes.

This post perplexes me, though. I beg your forgiveness, but please help me understand.

I don't think you're making fun of anyone, so -- are you serious? Have people really been attacking you on DU over the gay marriage issue? I think I've seen one person, who was later tombstoned, but that's it. Have I just missed those posts?

If people have been attacking you for wanting equal rights to marry, that's horrible. :grr:

I can't apologize for other people's actions, but I will say this:

I stand by the GLBT community as a staunch straight ally, and I will always vote with your interests in mind.

[foreigncorrespondent]

5. Oh you bet we have been attacked hon.

That is why a gay marriage thread will turn so hot so quickly. People are insensitive to other people.

I don't really follow a religion. I do pray nightly, but I am really not religious. I stayed out of the Christian thread, because as the title said it is a safe haven. People shouldn't go in there to stir up trouble.

But the thread did give me the idea for this thread. If things hadn't been so rough on DU for the last few weeks, I probably wouldn't have done it, but things have been way too rough for a lot of us to handle.

I have already received to mod warnings because I will call a spade a spade, ya know?

Southern, we really appreciate your support, hon. You are one of the truly good people. :)

[southerngirlwriter]

6. That is just awful.

Watching the marriages in SF has been such a beautiful thing. I think about the lesbian couple who were together for 50 years -- so beautiful! And I could go to the bar a few block away and grab some random guy, and if we got married when the courthouse opens we would have INFINITELY more rights.

That is injustice in its purest form. It's HORRIBLE. :grr:

If I win the lottery anytime soon, I'm going to buy you and Sappho your very own expensive lawyer to get you here. :D

[foreigncorrespondent]

8. Those pictures have been great, aye?

I like the Cambodian Kings response to the images he has been seeing.

I went and looked at the site that has been posting pictures since the start, and shit I couldn't help it, I just began to cry. I am so happy for the couples (except Rosie. LOL But that's for another thread.)

Sappho and I were talking over the weekend about trying to raise the money to help get me back to SF so we could arry as well, but I kinda chickened out.

I didn;t chicken out because I don't want to marry her, I really do. I just don't want to marry her, spend a few days together and live apart again for God only knows how long. That isn't the way a marriage is meant to start.

We got a great immigration lawyer. It is just the laws that are fucked up. :(

[Red State Rebel]

20. I always thought DU was a safe haven for gays...

I cannot believe that Gay marriage is being attacked here of all places.

I honestly felt you were mocking my post, but I'm shocked to see intolerance on this site for gays. I never thought it would happen.

I was talking to a friend of mine to see if he and his partner were going to take the plunge but he said no, that wasn't their thing. I was disappointed, kind of like a mom who's daughter decides to elope, I was hoping for a nice ceremony and a great party!

Well, just know that you have this Christian's support!

[foreigncorrespondent]

21. OH...

...I did steal your post, but only because it truly fit in with what us DU queers have been feeling a lot of lately.

I do know we have Christian support. And I really do appreciate it. My problem is with the Christian fundamentalist, not what I term true Christians. :)

Thanks for your support.

[afraid_of_the_dark]

22. I was surprised to hear that sentiment as well...

I would have thought that DU, of all places, would have been a safe haven for members of the GLBT community.

It's so sad that people are using the gay marriage issue as an opportunity to attack... I thought it was a beautiful, and exciting display of civil disobedience, and I applaud those brave couples who made that step.

[POed_Ex_Repub]

7. I'm not checking in mind you...

Just wanted to offer support and a great big...

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

OK, resume your safety. ;)

[foreigncorrespondent]

9. Awww,you can check in...

...we can make you an honorary queer. ;)

Thank you for the hugs, my friend. :)

[Onlooker]

10. As someone with the gift of self-delusion...

I have to admit I haven't noticed much anti-gay marriage sentiment here. In fact, I've seen some really great posts from hetero's in support of it. For any progressive oppose to gay marriage, I think it's just a matter of time before they figure out how to reconcile their religious beliefs with a broader definition of marriage. Give them time to come around. They will, or else they will leave DU in search of a site that is more welcoming to bigots.

[SerpentX]

11. Present.

Don't let people bully you. It doesn't matter how much they gripe, they're wrong and they know it.

[David__77]

12. There's a challenge for Democrats.

It's to support EQUAL RIGHTS for same sex couples. That means that the state treats our relationships the same as different gender couples. Too many people are willing to say "I support civil unions, but think the word 'marriage'... blah, blah, blah..." This is the government we're talking about here. The government should not discriminate on the basis of some linguistic hangup. If you're for equal right, that should certainly be for equal marriage rights. It's really one position or the other. I give a certain slack to this or that politician due to electoral concerns, but for the rank and file progressive, this needs to be an issue.

[Beearewhyain]

13. As someone who lurks more than posts

I just wanted to say that what ever it was that made you feel excluded please ignore. I am not sure what might have made you feel this way but please understand that gay rights is among the highest of priorities for us liberals and in my daily life it is something that I make plainly clear. While I am straight and I hesitate to say this (due to the cliche' nature of the statement) one of my best freinds is gay. I would go to the mat for this man as a friend, and the very fact that anyone would wish to deny him anything that I enjoy as a right will be met with the most extreme resistance. Don't get me wrong, we disagree on allot of things; ironically he is much more conservative (economically) than me. The point is, don't let an overly vocal minority make you think that you are not embraced here.
BTW...we (personally) might not agree on allot of things but that would never mean you should not have the same rights as me.


The fact is there are many more like me than them; as a matter of fact...LURKERS, please check in here and state your support.

[jonnyblitz]

18. people always tend to notice the non-supporters without

acknowledging the many who do support us. I notice the many who DO also. :hi:

[lcordero]

14. I wonder if GBnC and Termite are going to travel to SF

They have been together for 18 years.

[jonnyblitz]

15. I see lots of support also.

I do see the "poo pooing" of our issues from the usual crowd because its not about them and it might ruin chances for their particular candidate to win some election and they make no qualms about telling you this and you get the sense they wish we would just shut up and go away particularly until after the election. On the other hand there are many here that are right at our side in support. I try to see the glass half full on this issue.

[gator_in_Ontario]

16. Good morning!

My best to you and saphho!
My wife and I are going through a similar situation to you two; we are bi-national and gay. We have spent (too) much of the last year apart due to "border issues". We are basically living hand to mouth, thanks to lawyers, moves and canceled plane tickets.
BUT we are at least together. After living together in Florida for 6 months, we made a trip to Canada so she could see family in June. We had a Key West wedding planned and paid for. US immigration would not let her back in. (That story is too long to go into here...suffice to say it was nothing criminal that let kept her out. Basically, they don't need a reason, and any attempt to reason with these people is perceived as arrogance). She re-entered the states 1 month later, after the date for the wedding had passed.
On advice, we returned to Ontario before I started my seasonal job in citrus. The logic was, by recrossing the border she would be good in the states for 6 months...alot of Canadians do that every year. We were married in Ontario in September, then the INS wouldn't let sno-bird back into the states. The next day mind you. We spent the next 2 months apart. We had a whole life in Florida that I had to dismantle and move/store. I had no family ties there (everyone dead basically and my brother is in Ohio anyway). So it was an easy decision for me to move here. At least for now. And it's Canada/US, not Australia/US...much easier. A bus ticket is only $150 or so.
Sno-bird found an interesting post in another forum that was very uplifting. I'll ask her to post it here when she gets up. The gist of it was that it is much harder for the "law" to take away something (say, a marriage license), than it is for us to fight them to have it granted in the first place. So these mayors in SF and now a small town in NY, are truly making history. And making things hard for the opposition. It will take years, but it is a start.
I hope you two find a more immediate solution, you NEED to. Believe me, I know the loneliness and depression of being away from the one you love. The slight homesickness I feel for sand, sea, and swamp (well, I am a gator after all ) pales in comparison.
Good luck to you both!
Now...what was the topic again? :)

[foreigncorrespondent]

19. Gator, thank YOU!!!!

Yep it is hard.

Sapph and I have no idea if I can even get back into the states. We haven't tried it. And quite frankly, we can't afford the plane ticket, and if by some miracle we were able to raise the money, we would hate to loose it when they don't let me through, ya know?

In short, I was in the U.S. in 2000 on a visitors visa. When it came close to running out we got hold of a great immigration lawyer in SF, and she got us an extension on the visa. That gave me another six months there.

Come September 13th, 2001 I was due to fly back to Australia, but Sepetember 11th, 2001 something bad happened. Because of that all flights were cancelled. So Sapph and I head back down to our lawyers office on the 12th, to find out what would happen, because she didn't want to put me on a plane, and I didn't want to go on a plane after what just happened. We applied for another extension.

Come January 2002 we get a letter from the INS telling us that our extension hadn't been approved and I had overstayed my welcome by four months and I needed to get out.

Of course this causes a red mark on ones name.

Our lawyer took the INS to court on the grounds that the INS had misquoted their own laws, and won the case. Of course too little too late, I was already out of the country by several months.

Now we don't know if that mark has been removed from my record or not.

I am glad you two are together. No matter what, being together is the most important thing. :)

[dsc]

17. thanks

Sad that this is needed but thanks. Between the anti Dean glee fests and this DU has become a place which challenges my serenity instead of adding to it.

[Melsky]

23. I'm straight but support gay rights

The way some people act, you'd think gays didn't have to pay taxes or something. I've been saddened by some of the things I've seen here on DU against gay rights.

[indigo32]

24. Here Here

:hi:

[Padraig18]

25. On my knees, checking in....

:evilgrin:

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

26. Well, i finally saw what you where talking about.

...on that "not my issue" poll, where the vast majority said gay marriage wasnt even close as a big issue for them, and also on the remarks on the GD primary board.

So, yeah, alot of that is politically motivated, and alot is just typical str8 indifference to gays & lesbians and their issues.

[Lizz612]

27. Can a Bi girl check in?

I've been avoiding a freeper friend who doesn't know I'm bi cause I know she'll go off about SF, and I can't trust myself to keep my mouth shut. x(

[foreigncorrespondent]

31. Of course...

...you can. You are always welcome in queer threads. :)

[Plaid Adder]

28. Once more unto the breach, dear friends!

I get the whole 'safe space' concept, but I do want to say that although as I have said many times DU has some growing to do, by and large most of the people who are capable of engaging in rational debate (and that's not everyone) are pretty good on this issue. I have gotten a lot of support from straight DUers on some of the threads I've started. If I might offer a few tips for handling the whole thing outside the safe haven:

1) If you want to say something about a GBLT issue you're better off starting your own thread instead of posting on someone else's. That way you get to set the tone and terms of the debate.

2) Learn to recognize the people who are just unregenerate about this issue and leave them alone. Put them on 'ignore' if you just can't stand to leave their crap unrefuted. It costs you more in terms of time and energy to try to take them on than you will *ever* gain in terms of educating them.

3) NOT EVERYTHING MERITS RESPONSE. There are some arguments that are *so* pathetic that you lower yourself by even attacking them. It's better if you just take the position that you don't *have* to justify yourself to these assholes, and you're not gonna.

4) You don't have to personally take it upon yourself to respond to everything. If someone posts something egregious, you can count on other people to call them on it. It's more fun to read someone else's evisceration of a stupid right-wing talking point than it is to put the blood and sweat into composing it yourself.

5) Accept the fact that a lot of people really don't care whose feelings they hurt. In any community of 40,000 you're gonna have some assholes. Goes with the territory, nothing you can do about it. To the assholes, explaining why something they posted was hurtful is just going to be a signal for them to hurt you more.

6) Remember that you are your own bad self and you don't NEED any stinking straight approval. Once you take the position that it's *their* job to drag themselves into the 21st century and not yours, life gets a lot easier.

See you around,

The Plaid Adder

[mlawson]

29. This is a 'safe haven', and we are called "queers"????????????

Remembering what that word meant in high school in the 1960s, I deeply resent it now!!! Yeah, I know it's 'trendy'... It was very trendy among the haters to call us ... that ... back then, too!!!

What is the next trendy term to call ourselves, 'degenerates'?? This is nuts!

[foreigncorrespondent]

32. That is why...

...you take a word that is used for insult, and use it amongst your own group. Guess what? It takes the sting out of it, and the bite out of their bark.

[mlawson]

33. ?????

So bush should enjoy calling himself 'thief'???

Why DO this?? The term is exremely non-inclusive. It's connotations are universally negative. Who thought this one up?

Are gay teens supposed to find solace from being bullied, by being called 'queer' by other gays and bullies alike??? I can not believe this.

[KG]

30. DU queers, i got your back.

:hi: