Ticket Giving Traffic Cameras; For or Against?

[Leo 9]

Lincoln’s Next Lively Debate?
November 25, 2008 at 8:45am By: Mr. Wilson Posted in The Lincolnite Blog

Lincolnites love a good local debate. Could Mayor Beutler’s proposal to legalize automated traffic cameras be the next fiery topic?

Nationwide, traffic cameras are loved and reviled. Municipalities love ‘em. Traffic cameras increase revenue for relatively little cost. Revenue increases even more when municipalities shorten yellow light times to increase red light violations. A few communities have been caught doing that. Motorists hate them. Nobody likes being caught in the act of doing something you’ve always gotten away with in the past. Plus, all those new brake lights lead to substantial increases in rear-end collisions in communities that install traffic cameras. Moreover, plenty of folks think it’s a little creepy to be watched by cameras wherever they go.

Before Lincoln installs traffic enforcement cameras, Mayor Beutler and other local officials are going to have to prove two things: first, that there is a problem; and second, that traffic cameras are the best solution. Maybe both are true, maybe they aren’t. Presumably we will learn more if the topic makes it onto the Unicameral’s agenda, and again if the City Council takes up the issue.

What is your gut reaction to the idea of using traffic enforcement cameras in Lincoln, whether for speeding, red light running, or other offenses?

http://lincolnite.com/blog/P30/

[SacredCow]

1. At first I was for them....

because there WERE a lot of people around here blowing through red lights. Then, I was accused of it myself (http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x8020612) and I realized that it's nothing but easy money for the municipality. They are utterly indifferent to those who have been wrongfully snagged by their system- you're nothing but a wrench in their works if you fight them.

<off soapbox>

[MrCoffee]

2. You know who complains about red light cameras?

People who run red lights.

[SacredCow]

3. Yeah- And the people who are lucky enough to get the short end of their "camera malfunctions"

Like me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x8020612

[Alexander]

10. You know who supports red light cameras?

Ignorant fools.

[Ptah]

4. Santa impersonators wrap radar cameras in Tempe

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/fromcomments/272980.php


Tucson, Arizona | Published: 12.23.2008

TEMPE — A group of Santa impersonators are on the naughty list of Arizona law enforcement officials.

A YouTube video posted Monday shows four people dressed as Kris Kringle, white beards and red hats included, covering three speed and red light enforcement cameras in Tempe.

They cover two of them with boxes — one decorated with Christmas wrap — and the third with what appears to be a red sheet.

The Jackson 5's "Santa Claus is coming to town" plays during the more than two-minute video.
At the end is a message that reads:

"Ho Ho Ho! Death to the surveillance state! Free movement for all people!

The group that posted the video also wrote "lumps of coal to all of those
who make it their business to watch and control."

[Alexander]

12. My friend saw this happen and told me about it the other day.

I found it hilarious.

[Deja Q]

5. If the camera sees the entire field and a block beyond and the whole segment of tape is viewed,

then it's okay.

If it's only one tiny intersection, then the CONTEXT for any law breaking is missing. While not often, some circumstances make being in the wrong place at the wrong time inevitable.

It's as much the spirit of the law vs the rule of law. Both are needed.

[DS1]

6. Against. Cities should have to earn their road tax

[timtom]

7. Totally against!!

But, then, I'm damn near being an anarchist.

[CreekDog]

8. Now there's car identity theft, they spoof your plate on their car

and voila, you get the ticket (or worse).

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/12/21/1751210

Using Speed Cameras To Send Tickets To Your Enemies

High school students in Maryland are using speed cameras to get back at their perceived enemies, and even teachers. The students duplicate the victim's license plate on glossy paper using a laser printer, tape it over their own plate, then speed past a newly installed speed camera. The victim gets a $40 ticket in the mail days later, without any humans ever having been involved in the ticketing process. A blog dedicated to driving and politics adds that a similar, if darker, practice has taken hold in England, where bad guys cruise the streets looking for a car similar to their own. They then duplicate its plates in a more durable form, and thereafter drive around with little fear of trouble from the police.

(apparently we know where madinmaryland has been :evilgrin: )

[Mugu]

9. Local teens claim pranks on county's Speed Cams

thesentinel.com

As a prank, students from local high schools have been taking advantage of the county's Speed Camera Program in order to exact revenge on people who they believe have wronged them in the past, including other students and even teachers. Students from Richard Montgomery High School dubbed the prank the Speed Camera "Pimping" game, according to a parent of a student enrolled at one of the high schools.

Originating from Wootton High School, the parent said, students duplicate the license plates by printing plate numbers on glossy photo paper, using fonts from certain websites that "mimic" those on Maryland license plates. They tape the duplicate plate over the existing plate on the back of their car and purposefully speed through a speed camera, the parent said. The victim then receives a citation in the mail days later.

Students are even obtaining vehicles from their friends that are similar or identical to the make and model of the car owned by the targeted victim, according to the parent.

"This game is very disturbing," the parent said. "Especially since unsuspecting parents will also be victimized through receipt of unwarranted photo speed tickets. The parent said that "our civil rights are exploited," and the entire premise behind the Speed Camera Program is called into question as a result of the growing this fad among students.

http://www.thesentinel.com/302730670790449.php">Complete article

[Alexander]

11. 100% Against. They've opened up Pandora's Box here with the processors...

In Arizona, ticket processors have worn UPS and mail delivery uniforms, impersonating others and often serving tickets to people who weren't even near their car on the day in question. And they get away with it here, every time.

The judges here rubber stamp every single ticket, even when the supposed offenders were in other countries.

One judge even told a person "The facts don't matter. You must pay the ticket."

Often times, people will have their license suspended without their knowledge because of a ticket they couldn't possibly have earned, and they don't know about any of it until they get pulled over and arrested.

At least when judges are relying on a police officer or witness testimony, they can account for error.

But here, the judges rely on the cameras 100% of the time, so when a mistake is made, the judge assumes it's the motorist's fault.

People who support these things are either a) employed in some way by this system, b) fascist nanny-staters, or c) ignorant.

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. Only if they're rigged to mercilessly target FIBs under the assumption they are committing a crime

because of their license plate's state of origin.

[mwooldri]

14. I've mixed opinions about this one.

It would have been nice to have had a camera when someone ran a stop light into me late Sunday/early Monday. In my case there was other proof and the other driver all but admitted running it but this would have been proof final of the situation.

Speed cameras can help control speed but only in that area. The UK has tons of the things, and most of them are fixed, even to the extent that GPS systems come pre-equipped programmed with their locations so when you come up to one you know that you'd better slow down. The ones you had better watch for are the mobile speed cameras; what is done is that a zone is designated a speed camera zone and is signposted as such, but rarely has speed cameras on it. But at certain times of the year or even day, the police will wheel out a speed camera to that location to take pictures.

In some jurisdictions the camera citation is just a civil penalty, you get no points on your drivers licence, though insurance may be another matter. If it were kept a true civil matter, and private between you and the jurisdiction operating the speed camera it might not be too bad... and especially if there's an appeals mechanism that works (e.g. defective camera, stuck red light and nothing coming) then it might not be a bad thing and would help to deter bad driving behaviour.

Greensboro, NC had an interesting situation regarding its red light cameras. Apparently there was some local law written that 90% of the revenue gained from the operation of the red light cameras was supposed to go to the school system. The city was operating it on a 50/50 split with the camera owners/operators. Someone took the city to court on this and won, and the city owed a big bunch of money to the school system. Also since running the red light cameras was not worthwhile, they got deactivated, and now they're removed.

Mark.


Mark.