Are lesbians gay?

[Bonn1997]

What do you think of phrases like "gays and lesbians" or "homosexuals and lesbians"? I've always wondered why that's not redundant, as I've never seen a definition of "gay" (when refering to sexual orientation) or "homosexual" that would exclude lesbians.

[lightningandsnow]

1. I prefer "queer", or, failing that "LGBTQ"

I'm all for people getting to self-define. Like, a lot of women consider themselves lesbians and not gay.

I consider myself queer/pansexual, and, if I'm around people who aren't offended by it, I'll call myself a dyke. I'm not big on the term "bisexual" because it implies there are only two genders, but I'll use it sometimes if people don't understand what pansexual means. I used to call myself a lesbian and still do on occasion, although that's kind of iffy because I'm not only attracted to females.

I don't like the term "gay and lesbian" because it excludes bisexuals/pansexuals, people who just label themselves "queer", trans people, intersex people, and the like.

[undeterred]

2. Are there more than two genders?

Do tell.

[lightningandsnow]

3. Yup.

Sex is physical, and mostly binary - with the exception of people with various intersex conditions.

Gender is how you feel, and it's fluid. Some people identify as genderqueer, androgynous, intergender, or neutrois - meaning they feel like a mix of male and female, in between genders, or like they have no gender at all. Some people are also bigender, meaning they go back and forth between being male and female.

Of course, there are trans people who identify as binary-gendered (male or female) - just a gender other than the one the were born with.

[undeterred]

4. ok

I was thinking of gender as 'sex'.

[Bonn1997]

5. That's what I was going to say.

Sex general refers to biological and anatomical charateristics.
My basic understanding is that gender--and related terms like gender identity, masculinity, and femininity--generally refers to psychological and social characteristics. I think it gets a bit vague at times, though. I'm curious how others answer your question.

[Bonn1997]

7. Do you need the "L" in "LGBTQ", though?

That's my point. Why is the "L" (lesbian) not already implied by the "G" (gay)?

[billyskank]

6. My neighbours Cathy and Sarah describe themselves as gay.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. some lesbians identify as gay, some dont. to a degree its like mankind vs humankind

gays typically are male homosexuals

yes, some lesbians are fine w. definition of gay covering us all. some aren't

[book_worm]

9. I know people who are outraged by gay men but two women doesn't bother them

"because it isn't the same". Labels to me we are all just human beings.

[JohnnieGordon]

11. You know homophobic bigots..nt

[mykpart]

10. More important, are they happy?

Why do we have to name and classify everything about our humanity?