Straight guy in need of advice (possibly from gay community)

[FlyingSquirrel]

Ok so here's the deal. I host karaoke at a bar on Saturdays. I sometimes fill in on other nights, used to host twice a week. The bar is not a gay bar but we have a very diverse crowd that comes in and we like it that way. One of the other hosts is gay and the main bartender's brother is also.

Anyway, there's this gay couple that are regulars there, and they're kinda like family in a Cheers kind of way. They put up Christmas lights, ran a raffle on New Year's Eve, etc. I like them both. Problem is, they hit on me constantly (one of them much more than the other). At first it was cute and a little funny (though uncomfortable). Now it is just uncomfortable and no longer funny but I try to avoid getting openly upset about it because it's kind of a delicate situation, I don't want to hurt either of their feelings and I do like them both.

I'm tired of having to hug them goodbye and possibly getting my ass grabbed in the process. I'm tired of the one who is more forward than the other constantly making remarks and giving me looks, touching me when he's drunk (usually just before he leaves) etc. They know I'm straight.

I've started avoiding going there on my days off but can't really avoid Saturdays. Obviously at some point I'm gonna have to say something to someone. Who should I say it to and what would be the best way to say it? Any suggestions?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. Hold on let me check

I have a list of all DUers sexual orientations.

[Redneck Socialist]

56. Apropos of nothing, I LOL'd at your new username.

:rofl:

[harmonicon]

2. sounds more like you need bartender advice

I think if you're comfortable being friends with this guy, which he seems to assume you are, you should just say these exact same things to him. "You're my friend, but I'm not interested. I understand that your boyfriend may not have a problem with you acting this way towards me, so you think it's fine, but it still makes me uncomfortable. Please stop, so that we may remain friends. I like having you in the bar otherwise." Would that be so bad? I know it would be hard to pluck up the courage to say that, but I don't think it would drive him away as a friend or a customer.

Apart from that.... I don't know. Get a tough girlfriend who will smack him if he grabs you?

[LeftyFingerPop]

3. Sexual harassment is sexual harrassment...

whether it is straight on straight, gay on straight, whatever. Tell them how much you like them, but it makes you uncomfortable and you wish they would refrain from it.

[PVnRT]

4. Why would it be any different

than telling a woman you're not interested in that you're not interested?

[Zuiderelle]

5. You post this in GLBT too?

Just tell them to stop touching you.

[Marrah_G]

7. Its awkward for some people

Better to have someone come asking. You can help educate at the same time putting people at ease.

You and I may know the answers, but for alot of people it's a new situation and they don't know how to respond.

Asking and getting educated is far better then punching the person, which is far to often the reaction seen.

[Zuiderelle]

8. I was just surprised to see it asked in the GLBT forum

Must be a little gun-shy these days.

[Marrah_G]

10. I know, better to be asked though, IMHO

This means the person cares enough to want to learn and sensitive enough to not want to cause any hurt feelings. I'd much rather be surrounded by that type of person then one who goes charging through life without concern for others feelings.

[Zuiderelle]

12. True enough. There are plenty of people in the world who don't care at all about others.

[LeftyFingerPop]

11. He asked a fair question with harmless intent. n/t

[blondeatlast]

6. Social graces exist for a reason--just politely tell them "No, thank you,

but I value your friendship--no hurt feelings, okay?"

[NJmaverick]

9. Tell them there's a line between good fun and sexual harassment

and they have been going over that line a bit too often. Doesn't matter if they are gay or straight, inappropriate behavior is simply not acceptable.

[Creideiki]

13. I have this problem all the time

When a woman comes up and starts hitting on me. Then I recall what I learned in junior high school and say, thanks, I'm flattered, but she's just not my type.

[taterguy]

14. Just stop being so beautiful

[SacredCow]

15. It's no different than if you were getting unwanted female advances....

"I'm sorry, but this is NOT going to happen. It's not personal, so let's just agree to be friends."

Something to that effect will end the problem 99% of the time. However, there ARE a handfull of gay men who have a fascination with straight men, and can be very persistent (I know a couple of these). If they're of this type, you may have to be more forceful about it.

[begin_within]

16. How would you handle it if it was a woman you didn't desire and yet kept making advances on you?

[snooper2]

17. Why don't you do the same fucking thing if it was a drunk chic

doing it?

[Deja Q]

49. Oops, I missed that part...

Maybe he's straight, single, and prefers women make the first move.

If he were gay and it was a straight women grabbing, the scenario of harassment remains no different.

Dunno. Don't care.

The basic rule is this: "What is appropriate and/or legal regarding consensual touching". I don't care who of what orientation grabs whom of whatever orientation. Set the boundaries and ensure they are followed. If not followed, do what it takes, at a relevant pace, to stop the same actions repeating again.

[Vanje]

18. Tell him:

"Dont tutch the but"

[Common Sense Party]

53. Or: "You're not my type."

That worked so well for the troll here the other night.

[Runcible Spoon]

19. Wow are you serious?

Are you like 16 years old and have never had to deal with unwanted sexual advances? Or is it somehow different because they are Teh Gay?

I suggest going home and taking a scalding hot shower to wash off the shame you should feel for being such a dirty, dirty boy. You should be ashamed for being so sexy and riling up Teh Gays like that, you sexy dirt man you. :eyes:

[Forkboy]

25. That's a pretty hardcore response to a very innocent question.

Relax.

[krispos42]

29. I'm 32 and have never had to deal with any unwanted sexual advances

of any orientation.


Seems to me that assuming what works on drunk straight women will also work on drunk gay men is an assumption that the OP isn't willing to make. The operating assumption for that would seem to be that gay men are really just straight women in a male body, which is also an assumption that the OP isn't willing to make.

[Lil Missy]

20. Fair question. Unwanted advances are not appropriate with any sexual combination or orientation.

It's okay to say no, I'm not interested. I'd really try to be polite and diplomatic about it first. Especially in the situation you described.

But No means No, even for men, and gays. Might be time to say knock it the fuck off. I like you, but I don't like this crap. It's okay to say so. Gays don't have special rights for sexual harassment.

I am gay, and I, as well as some of my friends, have come across women who won't take fucking no for an answer. I have a shorter fuse then my freinds do, LOL!

But seriously, if these guys are hitting on you to the point it makes you uncomfortable, then you have every right to tell them to quit it.

[AlCzervik]

21. i don't know why their sexual orientation is important to the story, never the less

just say "i'm not interested" and that's that.

[amitten]

28. I'll tell you why the orientation is important--he's trying to be

considerate on a cultural level. Gay club culture is not IDENTICAL to straight club culture when it comes to sexual forwardness, and any idiot gay or straight knows that.

It's no secret that in SOME circles gay men have a different MO than straight men.

For instance, you'd be hard pressed to find two straight male regulars at a club who would dare grope or pinch a FEMALE employee without expecting major repercussions. These two men the OP talks about are doing something not entriely uncommon--using their orientation as a shield/excuse to behave in a very cheeky, sexually pushy manner. Can we call a spade a spade here? It's the truth.

I've had gay male friends grab my boobs before, as a joke, because they're gay and so it's "okay" (it really isn't). Sometimes gay guys just take the sexual joking to a level most straight guys wouldn't without expecting an ass-kicking.

Because of this not totally uncommon attribute, the OP is trying to find the best way to approach it without offending, since it is NOT "exactly the same" as discussing the same behavior with a straight guy. It's just not. It's slightly different culturally--can we please not belligerently pretend that it isn't...?

My whole point is that the OP doesn't deserve to be attacked for his question.

[AlCzervik]

32. i didn't attack him, i asked a question.

[amitten]

33. He is being attacked by others, though. n/t

[Lil Missy]

37. I think his question was legitimate too. But, ....

he posted an OP, and then escaped any furthur response.

That gives me a bit of pause too......

[Patiod]

41. He may have a life outside DU

The phone may have rung, someone stopped over, his boss wants him to actually WORK, a subordinate needs help, the kid may have started puking, the cat may have started puking...

I've posted and then gone away for more than a day --- I thought I had a spare hour before a long trip, and then SOMETHING HAPPENED and I couldn't get back online for a day or two. It wasn't a purposeful "post and run", but that's how it turned out.

Can't assume everyone is able to hover over their posts....

[Lil Missy]

42. You are exactly right!

:)

:hi:

[FlyingSquirrel]

50. I'm just now reading all the responses

(I didn't expect quite so many) I know this is DU and expected the attacks, but I'm just ignoring them in favor of taking what I can out of the helpful responses.

[Lil Missy]

39. I agree. The rules are more complex with gay men.

I don't think that is a popular attititude here.

But certainly, if a gay man is making a non-homophobic straight guy uncomfortatable, then the gay guy needs to be told to knock it the fuck off.

NO means NO! I don't care who the fuck your are. As a gay woman, I've seen this too many times with other women too. Knock it the fuck off. And gay men do it too.

[gaspee]

22. Ah

I posted this in the thread in GLBT but thought I'd post it here, too.

Remember, this is all my opinion, not scientific fact!

The age-old problem we women have to deal with from the time we are about 13 or so. What to do when men make unwanted advances. You must make it clear you are not interested. Try to be firm, yet kind. Men don't take rejection all that well if it isn't couched in a way that doesn't let them save face and doesn't make them angry. Though, being a guy, and them being gay, they are less likely (as I've learned over the years) to become angry with you than a straight guy gets when he's told no thank you.

I like you, but I'm not physically attracted to men should do the trick. If they don't get the message, you may have to tell them more than once.

As a lesbian (formerly bi, but I haven't had the slightest attraction to a man in 12 years, so I'm going with lesbian now) I've had to deal with this a lot. Or I did when I was younger, anyway, LOL! It really depends on the guy whether or not they will take the first no and give up. In my experience, having many gay male friends and roommates, one no is usually enough for gay guys coming from a straight guy. Unless the gay guy has a straight boy fetish, LOL! But, if you give them mixed signals, then they will have that shred of hope there. Like I said, make it crystal clear, but be nice the first couple of times, that it's never going to happen.

If they persist, then let them know they are making you uncomfortable.

IMO, this is the real reason men are homophobic. I am in no way saying you are - just to make that clear! But, again, IMO, men don't want to be hit on by men. They don't like feeling like prey. Otherwise, you wouldn't have to ask this question - you'd just do what you do when women you are not interested hit on you. If it were OK to be gay, then men would have to deal with what we women have to deal with all the time. Again, that's my opinion, not scientific fact. But think about how uncomfortable you are and then think about how you or men you know have interacted with women in the past. Don't react, just think about it. How have women let you (or you've witnessed) know they weren't interested? What hurt your feelings (or your friend's.) What didn't? Now, if they persist, don't worry about hurting their feelings. You don't have to worry about them taking enough offense for them to get violent with you, like women do.

Remember that we get to deal with this since the time we are 13 or so. Women might be the best people to ask. Good luck!

That will be 5 cents, please!

[LanternWaste]

38. That was an insightful and rather thought-provoking statement...

"They (men) don't like feeling like prey."

That was an insightful and rather thought-provoking statement. A perspective I've never given thought to in the past, but will now allow it to occupy a few conversations with my friends when they come over.

I imagine women don't want to feel like prey either, but in the past few thousand years of human development, I'd hazard that it has become somewhat customary (for lack of a better word that probably exists everywhere but my own brain right now).

Damn you for making me think!!! :evilgrin:

(But really-- that's one of the few statements I've read on DU that allowed me a completely new, never-before-though-of perspective on gay/straight relations in contemporary culture. Thanks)

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

23. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sfpcjock]

24. Don't be afraid to tell them "no thanks"

Sounds like they are a bit alienated, slow or in denial if you have been giving them any signals at all of your feelings. You do not need to be "converted". You need to tell them when the moment is right for your own peace of mind. Don't rush it. The moment will arrive in all its glory in the fullness of time.

If this couple cannot admire you for what you are then there is something seriously wrong with them. They probably are able to adjust to you. I think Str8 guys are very beautiful for just who they are. A handshake must suffice in most instances.

[Forkboy]

26. Only happened to me with one friend.

We worked together, got along awesome, and one night after closing he put the moves on me. I told him I was flattered but that my bread just wasn't buttered on that side. He apologized the next day, which I didn't really even need, and that was that. We went back to having a great time working together.

I always feel the best approach to anything is upfront honesty. I like everyone I deal with regularly to know exactly where they stand with me. :)

[jobycom]

27. I got a question.

Are they really hitting on you, or are they just flirting and goofing off? Might make a difference in how you should respond. If there is a serious attempt to get you into bed, then try to draw a line. Tell them you aren't interested. Maybe take the less aggressive one aside and say something subtle, like "Man, your buddy is all over me. Doesn't that bother you?" Or whatever fits your personality. Open a conversation so at least one knows how you feel, and maybe you'll also figure out if they are serious or just being flirty. The point is, make your point as directly as possible with one of them, rather than confronting both of them. If that doesn't work, make the complaint more explicit. "I'm just not into that. Sorry. Still friends, right?" Or whatever fits your personality. Make a deal out of it without making a big deal out of it.

If they are just goofing off, just try to keep a distance, or goof off back at them. When one goes to hug you, laugh and back away, saying "Oh no, I know what you're up to!" or whatever. That way you can flirt a little, but still draw the line.

A few people have said this is no different than women hitting on you, but that's only part true. Yes, it's just like an unwanted advance from a woman, but still, men relate differently to women than to men, regardless of orientation or interest (women do that, too). And there will be a level of concern you wouldn't have with a woman, because if you handle it wrong, they may think you are uncomfortable with their orientation, not just with their passes. Relate to them as you always relate to them--humorous, serious, goofy--however that is. If you suddenly change how you relate to them, you will embarrass them, and maybe drive them away, and that doesn't seem to be your goal. You want most of what you have with them, minus the drunken fondling, so make that your only issue.

Just my thoughts on how I'd handle it. Use at your own peril.

[Lil Missy]

30. Very good points. However, I got the impression one guy is pushing this too far,

and making the OP very uncomfortable.

The OP has not responded a single time in this thread. I consider that noteworthy too. So I have nothing more to say now.

[FlyingSquirrel]

51. One night they invited me to come to their house

And it was pretty clear that they were serious.

Thanks for the advice :)

[KitchenWitch]

31. after all, we all know that all gay men cannot keep their hands to themselves

when it comes to other men.

If you do not like the advances, be an adult and say something directly and respectfully.

And perhaps get a sense of humor about it, if they know you are straight they might just be teasing you.

[amitten]

34. That's not true!

But it is true that in some cicumstances, gay guys get more touchy-feely than a straight guy would, as a "joke".

I think that's why the OP doesn't know how to proceed without seeming like a prude.

[KitchenWitch]

35. did I really need to post the sarcasm tag?

[KamaAina]

36. What would you do if the female of a straight couple were coming on to you?

:shrug:

[Lil Missy]

40. He's a straight male. Now that is entirely different.

But I am not defending this bonehead. He has not answered a single comment here.

I am feeling some major wind blowing up my ass right now.

[no name no slogan]

44. Oh sorry. The blowing was me.

Just practicing for my big debut on "American AssBlowerUppers" later this season on Fox.

This is the DU member formerly known as ButtPuckerer.

[Deja Q]

48. Should it make a difference as to who instigates it? Not at all.

Find my other response. I'm hoping that spells the situation out to sufficient level of detail.

[donco6]

43. Leave the ComeFuckMe boots at home.

Works every time.

[TK421]

45. It's happened to me...I politely inform them that I don't swing that way

and most of the time, that works out fine. There have been a couple of times when that wasn't enough of a hint. Good luck

[XemaSab]

46. I like you as a friend

but it makes me really uncomfortable when you grab my ass.

There.

[Deja Q]

47. WHy not just tell them it's uncomfortable and you don't find it cute anymore?

Politely and diplomatically, of course, it's your right and you're not obligated to have to tolerate having a feel copped.

If they take it too personally, that's their damn problem. You have rights too, you know. Use them. We're a civilized society. In theory, they should understand and accept that. And if they don't and make some bullshit claim about "prejudice", I see none -- at least given hour description of events to this point. You have a right to your body, how you control it, how you use it, and under what conditions others are allowed to use or touch it. There is no prejudice in that respect.

After you tell them, if they opt to continue the same lewd behavior, it is clearly harassment worthy of being followed up on.

I don't see why telling them, politely, to stop would ruin the friendship, but in this bizarre day and age, anything is possible. But if it bothers you that much about being grabbed or whatever, don't avoid the situation. Confront it.

Incidentally, I would feel uncomfortable as well, and I am bi. Granted, my reasons are different -- I'd only let someone I love touch me in the first place and it doesn't matter where or how, plus I was sexually abused and molested on a few occasions during childhood - that's certainly why I don't like being touched by strangers; but that's not why you find it uncomfortable (just saying there are many valid reasons why someone may not want to be touched. FWIW.)

[FlyingSquirrel]

52. Thanks to all who posted helpful suggestions

and to those who attacked, I understand the reason why you did it. I'm gonna try tactfully asking them to chill out in a private setting and hope that takes care of it. I figured that was probably what I should do but just thought I'd ask. Sorry for any hard feelings I may have caused.

FS

[Lil Missy]

54. You did not ask anything out of line.

Some got pissy, and thus it got deleted.

I am sorry about that, because I thought it was informative.

[applegrove]

55. When he touches you just say "don't do that - I don't like it okay?". Direct is best.

Wish I had been that assertive when I was younger.