If Pete Rose is denied the Baseball Hall-of-Fame then so should anyone guilty of Steriod abuse

[LynneSin]

You got a player on banned steriods he is playing the game to an advantage that regular, honest players might not have. How is that any different than a manager making managerial decisions based on the bet he placed against his own team?

If Baseball doesn't take a hardline against these frauds then you might as well allow Rose back into the Hall-of-Fame. At least the 4000+ hits he's done were by his own accord and not because he was hopped up on some steriod.

[motely36]

1. I think Rose should be in the hall

I also think that anyone who has not tested positive since baseball outlawed steroids should have their records stand.

Flame away if you wish. :)

[Bertha Venation]

2. Use of steroids is cheating.

Cheaters shouldn't be allowed at Cooperstown.

[LSdemocrat]

3. I'd let them all in . . . Rose, Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, etc,

It's all part of baseball history, for better or worse.

[flvegan]

4. So would I.

[wain]

32. Then let Shoeless Joe in at last n/t

[Dr. Strange]

24. I suspect he'll get in after he's dead.

That way he gets the place in the HoF, but doesn't get to celebrate it.

[CreekDog]

5. Rose should be in

was there anything Rose didn't do? :shrug:

[madinmaryland]

7. Well, there was that thingie about betting on his own team.

Not while he was a player, but as a manager.

Let him into the Hall for his playing days, but never should he be allowed to be involved in anything related to MLB.

[MajorChode]

29. It would have been worse if he had bet AGAINST his team

The gambling was never really the biggest issue with Pete Rose. It was the deception regarding his gambling which lasted many years.

Had he admitted his gambling up front he probably would have been suspended for a year and that would have been the end of it.

[TZ]

8. besides actually MANIPULATE games?

I'm sorry but as bad as the juicers are, Rose is WORSE involving bookies and god knows what other underworld types in his betting and minupulation scheme--don't let his "I never bet agaisnt my team" fool you...he attempted to fix games. I'd rather see Bonds get in before Rose and I've spent more than my share of time walking Pete Rose Avenue

[CreekDog]

19. i know, i know

if he really bet on his own team to lose (or really at all) that is disqualifying.

but just in terms of being one of the greatest players and managers ever, on that basis alone, he should be in.

one of his recent interviews left me sort of wanting (regarding all the allegations).

i remember when the whole gambling thing happened and my grandfather told me how in the 70's he'd see Rose at the track a lot. That's when he played for the Phils and my grandfather lived in Cherry Hill, NJ.

:shrug:

[TZ]

20. I used to think he should be in the hall of fame actually

and then it became clear that the only reason he fessed up after all these years was so he could become eligible. It felt like we were being played.

[CreekDog]

21. great player, great manager

disappointing human being.

it's like in Greek Mythology, there is always some weakness...

[Bake]

10. Well, he never used steroids ...

I think he should be IN the Hall, as a player.

Bake

[flvegan]

13. That we know of.

[Bake]

15. Oh hell, if he'd done 'roids, we KNOW about it.

SOMEBODY would've ratted him out already.

Bake

[TZ]

17. well based on the ESPN movie about him

He didn't do steroids but did facilitate other people receiving them. Don't know how much truth there is to this.

[rurallib]

40. not many dingers

[Iggo]

6. I agree.

And I also think Pete Rose should be IN.

Let 'em all in.

But suspend every single one of 'em for cheating (except ARod. He's on my Dyansty League team.)

[Redstone]

9. Sometimes these things take care of themselves. Look at Barry Bonds's employment options...

Absolutely NO team would hire him, even at five dollars per game, because they all know he's toxic.

Redstone

[MrCoffee]

11. Hell no Rose shouldn't be in...there was no league complicity in his actions

No one turned a blind eye to Rose's bullshit. It's completely different in that MLB & the Player's Union tacitly encouraged players to use steroids.

I'm not condoning steroid use by professional athletes, but Bud Selig and Donald Fehr share 90% of the blame for the steriod era. Pete Rose carries 100% of the blame for betting on games.

[Rabrrrrrr]

12. On the other hand, all this debate just gives professional sports legitimacy.

Hell, put 'em all in, I don't care.

Although there should be an automatic ban for anyone who ever played for the Red Sox. :P

[flvegan]

14. But that eliminates Ruth, Williams, Yastrzemski...

[Rabrrrrrr]

16. Ruth Bader Ginsberg? I never knew!

:rofl:

[TZ]

18. Maybe there should be a section of the hall of fame for juicers

only.

[madinmaryland]

27. Heh heh...

cboy/upton are looking forward to that one!!1!!

:rofl:

[victoryparty]

22. Blame is easy

I tend to agree with MrCoffee (Post Number 11). The owners, trainers, agents and players union all knew but purposely (in a "don't give it too much thought" kind of way) looked the other way until the BALCO scandal hit. Then it was all about blame, with John McCain grandstanding at the Senate hearings as he is so adept at doing.

I doubt anyone of us here can imagine the kind of pressure players are under to perform at the best levels possible. Up until a few years ago, that included taking steroids. It was an open secret. So I for one am sick of all the sanctimonious crap about the integrity of the game and what shits these players are; they did what they had to do to be the best they could, and now the fickle fans turn on them as if we has so much as one at-bat in their cleats.

I'm not condoning the steroid use, especially post-BALCO use. What I am saying is that all this player-bashing by the fans would be hilarious if they didn't take themselves so seriously. A-Rod, Clemens, Bonds, et al aren't saints, but they are damned good baseball players who got caught up in the zeitgeist of the era they played in.

As for Rose, I think he should be in the Hall of Fame. Why? Because even though he bet on the Reds when he managed them, there is no evidence of him ever betting against the Reds. In other words, he never threw a game, but he always believed he could win. Sure, he's scummy and gross and probably a jerk, but so was Ty Cobb. So were a lot of guys we all like to pretend were perfect role models. Let's not forget O.J. Simpson is still in the NFL Hall of Fame. That doesn't make him any less of a criminal, but his crimes don't erase his NFL career, either.

http://www.punditty.com

[JackDragna]

36. Actually, there is such evidence.

You need to look about a bit more.

[Jamastiene]

23. Agreed

About the time I stopped watching baseball a lot was when they guys started looking overly beefed up. I knew then, something was amiss. I don't want my baseball players all 'roided up. I want them to have that "baseball player" look/body. It just ain't fun to watch them otherwise.

Pete Rose fucked up, but he was still a great player and deserves to be there.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

25. Until Bob Uecker is installed

in the Hall Of Fame, I refuse to support anyone else.

[conscious evolution]

26. I agree

Even if they do get in I never ever ever want to see rose in there.

Fuck him.He knew,KNEW, the penalty for betting on baseball and did it anyway.Fuck him.

[Maestro]

28. He should be there.

Given everything else that has happened Charlie Hustle needs to be there.

[old mark]

30. I saw Pete play with the Phillies, and I have always wanted him

in the hall of fame. He was a great player on guts and determination and he could take the team along with him when he got in the zone.
He was just great to watch.


mark

[GOPisEvil]

31. I don't get all butt-hurt about steroids. I think there were probably 1000 guys doing them.

However, I think Pete Rose should only see the inside of the Hall of Fame if he buys a ticket. Gambling on baseball has always been against the rules. For good reason, too. What would we have thought about Rose if he blew out a pitcher's arm trying to save a win just because he had $ on the game.

[rcrush]

33. They wont have anyone inducted in the hall of fame for awhile

[jobycom]

34. Gambling rigs the whole sport, turns it into a scripted pro wrestling spectacle.

If managers are betting against their teams, who knows if the games are even games? Rose knew the rules, everyone knew the rules, and unlike the steroid issue, there was no ambiguity of message coming from above about gambling.

Steroids are just another form of cheating, but at least the players are trying to win. You'd have to ban every player ever caught scuffing a ball, using Crisco, or swinging a corked bat. Not excusing it, just saying it's more complicated than that.

I don't envy the HoF voters. The one person I'm sure should not go in is Bud Selig. If half the people in the clubhouse knew there was juicing, then so did the managers, owners, and Bud Selig. Selig liked it. He wanted the home run chases. He wanted Clemmens's Cy Young seasons. He wanted Barry Bonds to replace Babe Ruth. All that former owner thought about was how to put more money in his pockets every season. Now he's ruined the sport for a generation. No one trusts the records, and that means no one can love the tradition and legacy. He killed the past of the sport, and he's probably destroyed the future of it, as well.

Bud Selig should go down next to the Black Sox scandal as the worst thing in baseball history. Pete Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame. After that, I have no certainties about anything involving the sport. I thought it was bad when they canceled the World Series, but Selig beat that--he canceled a whole damn generation of the sport.

[SoDesuKa]

39. Organized Crime and Organized Baseball Can't Coexist

Allowing the Mob to get into professional sports is too big a threat to the integrity of the game. Those guys don't fool around. They'll threaten people's children when there's a lot of money involved.

Rose bet all over the United States, including bets with known mobsters. When Bart Giamatti found this out, there was no choice. Bet with the Mob, goodbye Pete. Is Pete a dork? Yes he is. Is being a dork a hanging offense? No, it's not. But betting with the Mob is.

[blockhead]

35. wanna bet?

[sasquatch]

37. The funny thing is that Ken Griffey Jr. and a bunch of pitchers are gonna be the only

guys from that era getting into the HOF.
:rofl:

[SoDesuKa]

38. It's Who He Bet With

It's not simply the fact that Rose bet on games; it's the fact that he placed his bets with the Mafia. Bart Giamatti knew it, and that's why he was adamant about banning Rose from baseball. Mafia control of baseball would totally ruin it. It's one thing for a player to have a weakness for gambling; but getting the Mob involved is quite another.

How do I know that Pete Rose placed bets with the Mafia? A lot of people know it. In fact, a lot of players know it, too.

[rurallib]

41. Babe Ruth used illegal substances and he's in the Hall

Alcohol. Illegal during most of Babe's career yet he openly imbibed. I say throw him out. Now.
As one guy reminded me the other day, Ruth only played against white players.
To me the baseball hall of Fame is a big joke.

[LynneSin]

43. Ruth's drinking probably didn't inhance his game playing

That's the difference

[rurallib]

44. I used to be a HUGE baseball fan, but the owners and players

have made baseball almost repugnant to watch. Add to all that that a baseball game (or any sport on TV these days) is mostly commercials with spots of a game in them.
Anymore, my sports watching goes mostly to high school kids and below. Want to see some truly classic stuff? 7th grade girls basketball!
Edit to add - as for Pete Rose, there has never been a better ambassador for the game. He still lives, eats and breathes baseball. He talks baseball with an insider's view that relates easily to the common fan. His enthusiasm for baseball is infectious and sincere. Yet baseball shuts him out and glorifies people like Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby and many others who were not very nice people. It is almost as if baseball wants to give people a reason to not like them.

[LynneSin]

45. I feel the same exact way

I use to be able to quote baseball stastics at the drop of a hat.

Now I don't even know who plays for my favorite teams anymore

[rurallib]

46. It is like they took the perfect product and said "let's see how much

we can pervert it and still get the suckers in!"

[Shell Beau]

48. Exactly! I am sure a lot of the ball players used alcohol then.

Buy if anything, it hindered their playing.

[JVS]

42. Fuck Pete Rose and the roiders

[Orsino]

47. Seems obvious to me, a non-fan.

Not "allowing" Rose or steroid abusers into the hall of Fame doesn't hurt fans, who are welcome to all the selective memories they want concerning their favorite players.