On the issue of "respect".

[BeachBaby]

I've been battling some pretty serious family issues for the past 2+ years, and I'm finally starting to hear from family members who had appeared to write me off, because they chose to listen to the lies of my mother and father, instead of checking in with me to hear MY side of the story. To add to that, the part that really sent me for a tailspin, was that my parents spent very little time with these family members, while I was very close to them both.

(If this helps - I am 40 years old; my mother is 59 years old; my father is 65 years old; Terri is 52 years old; and Steve is 55 years old)

These two family members that I speak of are my mother's two siblings (both younger than she) - Steve and Terri.

Steve and Terri were/are like a big brother and big sister to me - because they were pre-teen and teenager when I was born. We've always been very close. I would consider both of them to be two of my best friends.

I'd spent my childhood being physically, mentally and emotionally abused. My parents are both uber-fundies, and Rapture-Ready radicals. I mean, it's not a here-and-there topic - it's their whole life. I'm not exaggerating.

After seeking out counseling, my counselor told me "If I ever had a patient who was qualified to 'divorce' her parents, you're the one". My blood pressure was always higher than it should be, I was smoking like a fiend, headaches all the time. My counselor told me that I had two choices: take anti-anxiety drugs, or walk away from them.

I expressed my concerns to my parents MANY times. I couldn't count how many times. Their immediate responses were always the same: they would roll their eyes, told me that it was their job as parents to set me straight on the path to God until the day they die, things like that.

I walked away from them on April 10, 2006 - with no turning back. Since then, my blood pressure is regulated, headaches disappeared, I sleep better, and I quit smoking.

My parents, in retaliation, ran with a pack of lies about me, to alienate Steve and Terri from me and my sons. And it worked - until this past week. My cousin informed me, the other day, that Steve wants to get together with me to talk. She also said that it seems that Steve is seeing the light - meaning, what's REALLY going on with my parents.

So, I am going to call Steve to set something up. And since it's been awhile, I'm going to call Terri, too. Now HERE is my question to you:

Terri, in a rant in July of 2007, told me that I had NO RIGHT to walk away from my parents - because they raised me, fed me, etc. When I tried to explain to her that they were lying about me, attacking my character, calling me every day to judge every little thing I do in my life, she said it doesn't matter. I owe them. I should respect them. When I asked her if my status as their child, gives them license to attack me at will and basically treat me like shit, she hung up on me.

Do you agree with this? I have found it IMPOSSIBLE to respect my parents - or ANYBODY for that matter - who do nothing other than intentionally hurt people, lie and manipulate others to suit some twisted agenda.

Sorry for the lengthiness, but it's heavily on my mind - and it's something I need to take care of in the VERY near future. Like in the next couple of days. :)

TIA. :)

[old mark]

1. Parents can be poisonous as cyanide. Yours seem to fit pretty well.

My dad is so abusive and demeaning I used to literally get sick and be unable to sleep weeks before I was going to visit him for a holiday or whatever. We lives about 2 miles apart, yet saw each other 4 times a year or less. Finally, he moved to Texas near my sister and BIL. It still affects me, and I am certain it will for my whole life. My wife had a similar situation with her mother, a PhD college professor who was the most controlling, manipulative, unhappy person in life. Since her mom died, my wife has finally become a happier person, and she recognises it it because mom is no longer here.

Parents can fucking kill you, and they have NO RIGHT to do what yours are doing to you. You have every right to defend yourself and to save your SELF
from their attempts at manipulation. If your relatives disagree, let them. Leave them alone and go your own way, hoping that maybe someday they will see the truth. Meanwhile, get on with your own life and avoid them as much as possible.

All the best - you are certainly not alone in this.

mark

[BeachBaby]

16. Thanks, old mark.

Walking away from the situation was tough, yes - but what's been even tougher for me is their attacks on me - by proxy - since then.

It's so difficult to just sit back and watch it happen - then again, what choice do I have? :(

[TZ]

2. Is there any evidence that Terri's attitude

Has changed toward you? I would wait till after you get together talk with Steve before interacting with Terri. Because if her attitude hasn't changed it's just going to open up old wounds and make things worse. That's what happened to me with my family and my efforts to heal things just made things worse (btw not one person has called me or contacted me since I got home so I see where I stand:( ). Anyway. I would take it one step at a time reestablish a relationship with Steve first...Terri later... I didn't really answer your question but Terri is dead wrong. No one owes their parents blind loyalty just because they are your parents just the same as you don't owe your country bilind unquestioning faith. Respect should be earned not automatically given . They damaged you. You don't owe ABUSERS anything. And anybody who thinks you do is an enabler of abuse. Honestly, if Terri has not changed her attitude at all I'd stay away from her

[Droopy]

4. I agree with TZ and old mark

Anyone who abuses people is not worthy of respect.

[BeachBaby]

20. I've been thinking about this all afternoon.

You're right. I'm not gonna pursue Terri for conversation until I talk to Steve.

If he isn't aware of how she's been thinking lately, maybe after I talk to him, he'll talk to Terri to feel her out.

[belladonna]

3. You absolutely do not owe them respect that they did not earn

And to answer the question she didn't answer, no, your status as their child does not given them license to treat you like shit. It constantly amazes me that anyone would think that a parent has a right to abuse a child, whether that be verbal abuse or physical abuse. Like I tell the narcissist, he doesn't just have rights to Maggie, he has responsibilities to act like a human and enrich her life and those override his rights as far as I'm concerned.

You just need to tell the truth and they can accept it or walk away again. Either way, you did the right thing :hug:

[BeachBaby]

22. I posted to you last week about my dad.

He was labeled as having Narcissistic Personality Disorder, with "episodes" of narcissistic rage. Combine all of that with a military background and fundamental born-again Christianity, and, well, you get the picture. :)

[Whoa_Nelly]

5. Respect is a two-way street

And your parents showed you no respect as a human being when they refused to listen to you.
Am happy to learn that you are much healthier since taking your path away from that which was destroying you.

If they believe their fundie-selves, then by lying, they are on the road to perdition.


Hope you update after meeting with Steve. :hug:

[BeachBaby]

23. "....they are on the road to perdition".

You've always had such a way with words, Nelly.

Thanks. :hug:

[Midlodemocrat]

6. Invite them to the meet up.

After the teenager in the wife beater said 'what up girl?' to me last night as I picked up pizza for the fam, I'm just itching to kick someone's ass to New York City without breaking a sweat.

[BeachBaby]

24. As long as you take care of it before the party starts.

I wanna have fun. :7

[TZ]

26. Oh I dunno..I think it would be fun

To watch Midlo take care of the problem....:)

[BeachBaby]

29. No. It wouldn't be fun at all.

They have some serious mental issues - both of them. If someone could talk them into seeking professional help, I would be all for even going with them - if they wanted me to.

I've asked them time and time again to do this - but to no avail.

[TZ]

35. .

I know. I was just trying to make you smile. Sorry...:hug: I also know that even if they went to professional help they'd really have to want itfor it to help--as I found out...:(

[Midlodemocrat]

31. On it. You owe me a beer.

[BeachBaby]

32. I'll give you a goddamned keg of Yuengling if you can talk some sense into them.

But not until after you have the babies. Tough love. :7 :hide:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

40. WAIT!

You're giving away a keg of Yuengling?

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I'D DO FOR THAT?

Pretty much anything .....................

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

41. My dream is to have a kegorator in the yard

with a keg of Yuengling.

[datasuspect]

7. all i ask is that someone give me my propers

when i get home.

[merh]

8. You are entitled to live a healthy life so live it and don't let

some emotional attempt to guilt you into doing something that is not healthy affect you. More power to you for making the break and choosing to live a healthy, loving life for you and your kids.

On Children
Kahlil Gibran

Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.

You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.

You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let our bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.

[BeachBaby]

25. Thanks for posting Kahlil Gibran, merh.

I've read a lot of his writings, but I've never seen that one. :) :hug:

[merh]

39. It's found in The Prophet

http://leb.net/~mira/works/prophet/prophet.html

I used to have the album of Richard Harris reading passages from The Prophet. When I searched for the online version of the book, I found a link to the CD and ordered it. So it is I that thank you for helping me remember the work.

[flying rabbit]

27. Very nice. n/t

[madmom]

9. I have tried several times to come up with the right words to express my

thoughts on this, but just can't get it right. The bottom line (to me) is you are an adult now, you get to live your own life YOUR way. You owe your parents gratitude for giving you the necessary things to sustain that life, BUT you do not owe them your soul! They have to respect you as a PERSON, not as an object they have ownership or control over, before they can earn your respect back. If they know the pain they are causing you and continue to do so, shows they have no respect for you. I am 55, my SO is 58. We have a son who is 37. He has chosen a pattern for his life we do not fully support, but we let him live his life and help whenever we are needed (grand children involved) but we NEVER interfere with what he wants to do with his life, as long as he takes responsibility for his actions.Respect is a two way street, if you give it you get it, BUT I also think you have to earn it.Your parents are wrong. Hope you get things worked out, I know what it's like to be ostracized from your family.:hug:

[BeachBaby]

28. Sounds like you got it right to me.

Thanks, madmom. :hug:

[Moondog]

10. They raised you, fed you etc because

they had to do so. They would have gone down for child neglect / child abuse if they hadn't. Don't EVER let someone guilt trip you for that.

Emotionally abusive people are toxic, and are to be devoutly avoided. Forty years is a long time to try and work through this. You've given it long enough. Move on.

[BeachBaby]

30. I had read a book about toxic relationships, awhile back.

I really should go out and buy the "Toxic Parents" book. I'm sure it would probably shed some better light on the subject.

[Left Is Write]

11. No. You do not "owe" your parents respect, given how they treated you.

[BeachBaby]

34. I didn't think so, either. It made no sense.

I had always been taught that respect is earned. And I can't find an ounce of respect for them - the damage is immeasurable.

Thanks, LiR. :hug:

[fight4my3sons]

12. My husband and I have gone through the same Exact thing with his parents.

He made the decision to walk away the day our oldest son was born. It has been 6 1/2 years now. No contact. We are now in contact with his siblings. His brother has tried once to say he had no right to walk away and that he owed them, along the lines of what you were told. My husband told him that if he wanted to be in contact with us and our boys he would not mention their parents again. He hasn't. By the way, my husband was physically, emotionally, and mentally abused as a child as well. He has gone through counseling and was told the same thing get away from his parents. He used to not be able to eat without choking. literally. That has gone away. His anxiety has gone away. I feel for our children who have not met their grandparents, but I respect my husband's wishes. He says that he hasn't told me the worst of what went on in his childhood and I probably don't want to know. Anyway, I'm sorry that this has become so long, but if your situation is like my husband's you had every right to walk away. :hug:

[BeachBaby]

36. Wow. Sounds like your husband has been through hell and back.

I can't say that I had problems with choking or anything like that....but I was a bed-wetter well into my teens, with stomach problems, nail-biting, shaking hands, etc.

I hope that your husband is getting himself in a better place, mentally-speaking. It takes time, but time does heal. :)

Thanks for posting. :hug:

[rustydog]

13. Movies aren't life, but they do mirror life at times...

These lines from Guess Who's Coming To Dinner and Stand By Me seem apropos;

Sidney Poitier (John) is arguing with his father in the library. The father is angry that John is not living his life as his parents had raised him. the father noted that he worked extra days, carried mail in all weather for his son to have this and that and that John owed him...

John's reply: "You listen to me... You tell me what rights I've got or haven't got, and what I owe to you for what you've done for me. Let me tell you something. I owe you nothing! If you carried that bag a million miles, you did what you're supposed to do! Because you brought me into this world. And from that day you owed me everything you could ever do for me like I will owe my son if I ever have another. But you don't own me! You can't tell me when or where I'm out of line, or try to get me to live my life according to your rules..."

From Stand By Me: "... And if your parents are too fucked up to do it, then maybe I should."

[CaliforniaPeggy]

14. My dear BeachBaby...

I am in total agreement with everyone here: You owe them NOTHING.

Make peace with Steve, and see how it unfolds with Terri.

I wrote this recently in response to something else, but I think it applies even more clearly to you: I hope you like it! And I hope so much that it helps you too...

“I Am Myself”

I will not let you tell me
Who I am

Or what to think
Or feel

Or be...

I am myself, freely myself
Answerable only to me

My thoughts tumble inside me
Like sparks up the chimney
From the fire

They are cast upon the wind
As it blows by outside
They fly away in the night
Leaving a trail visible to whoever looks

So my thoughts fly away too
Into the void
And whoever looks may see

These are me...

I am free
No censorship
No editing
No restrictions
From anyone but me

This is who I am.
Beware
Of me...
Respect me.


© MLC

[SeattleGirl]

15. You know the definition of insanity, right? Doing the same thing again

and again and expecting different results.

You have chosen to stop doing something insane: trying to get along with your parents, For all kinds of reasons, I would imagine that walking away wasn't the easiest thing for you to do, but it was obviously the very best thing for you to do.

As to Steve and Terri, I would definitely meet up with Steve, since he has reached out, but I think I would wait until after that to reach out to Terri. Get a sense from Steve as to where she's at with all of this. If she is still of the mindset that you "owe" your parents, I would take a pass on getting together with her for the time being. Nobody "owes" their parents the opportunity to abuse them.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

17. Everyone must earn respect. Parents are no different.

If your parents haven't earned respect, don't give it to them. Particularly not with you as a grown adult.

[Kajsa]

18. Respect is not synonymous

with fear and/or abuse.

I do not respect abusive people, nor
do I respect people I fear.

Hang in there, I'm behind you 100%!

:)

[Strong Atheist]

19. You were right, she was wrong. nt.

[Wapsie B]

21. I agree with you. I know what you're talking about

when dealing with parents like that.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[TZ]

37. Sorry Grovelbot but I don't think "Audacity of Hope" is really

relevant to the topic...:)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

38. Oh, honey,

fuck them all.

That's the bottom line, and it seems as if everything you've done to save yourself so far has been strong and determined and good and healthy. I'm proud of you, because it's hard, oh, man, it's almost impossible to walk away from people like parents.

You keep hoping, just like a little child, that they'll somehow turn into the good and loving people you really know they are. Kids, no matter their ages, indulge in magical thinking. It never comes true, though - that's why it's called "magical."

You are not on this earth to put up with anyone's crap - except mine, of course - and no one - NO ONE - has a right to tell you that you're anything but perfect. It's your damn ship, and if you choose to sail it onto a reef, well, that's your choice. I'll back you up even while I'm whispering to you that that might not be the wisest course. But, I'll back you up.

Watch yourself with Steve, because you've only heard - second-hand, hearsay - that he wants to reach out to you. I'm very suspicious of people who are quick to judge and then later "see the light." I might be paranoid, but it's always wise to act out of an abundance of caution. Wait to hear from Steve, and see what he has to say.

As for Terri, fuck her, too. Don't you DARE contact her. Don't you DARE put yourself in the path of her invective again. No. Leave her be. She knows how to reach you, so put that idea of you calling or contacting her out of your beautiful head.

You're fine. In fact, sweetie, I think you're remarkable, and I pretty much loathe everyone. You're warm and smart and brilliant and loving and just one very special human being. Even in this dispassionate medium, your light shines. I can tell, and I spend my life trying not to notice things like that. You cannot be ignored, and you, because you are right and good, cannot be treated badly by anyone ever again.

You have done it right so far, so don't let this latest news - that Steve wants to make contact - throw you. I know how discombobulating it can be, because you want so much for it all to be all right. But, my young friend, I have a sad truth to tell you, one you already know:

It's never going to be all right. Never.

BUT, you have made a new kind of "all right" for yourself, and that is all that matters. You've got to be so proud of yourself, and you've got to hold onto that. You do not need to have people around you who can only make themselves feel big by making you feel small.

You deserve good people, and judging from the responses I read here, you have plenty of them on your side. See how special you are?

I know all of this from the inside out, and my experiences are what are prompting me to tell you all of this.

I never knew peace until I stood at their graves, many years after I'd last seen them, and I could finally breathe. And, when I felt that good, clean winter air fill my lungs, as the beautiful big fat snowflakes fell on me and on the cemetery, on the headstones, all I could think of to say was, "Thanks for the sense of humor."

Someday, you'll know what to thank yours for. In the meantime, if there's anything I can do - if you want to talk - PM me, and we'll make it happen, OK?

You are correct. The others are wrong. Don't forget that.

And here's to you, kid:

[ThomCat]

42. Family is often just a birth defect, but it's one you can heal from.

:(

You were right to leave your parents behind. If your parents are toxic then your health and well being are more important than "respecting" your parents.

I'm sorry that your aunt and uncle didn't see how your parents treated you. I'm sorry they haven't been there to empathize with your side and understand what you were going through.

I hope you can rebuild your relationship with them without your parents poisoning things again. :hug:

Please don't second guess yourself in all of this. It sounds to me like you did the right thing. You did what you needed to do. Second guessing yourself does you no good, and it will only make things hurt even more. :(

It sounds like you've been incredibly strong through all of this, but very lonely. As someone who has left family behind and been disowned, I can understand. Please don't let anyone tear you down. Be well.

:loveya: