Don't believe in miracles? Then what do you call this?

[Brigid]

Earlier this evening I had a wonderful experience that gives me an idea why. I missed Mass this morning, so I went to another one at a different parish this evening instead. It is staffed by the Franciscans. A franciscan sister, Sister Barbara, was there, telling us about her work many years ago in Papua New Guinea. She said her work most consisted of teaching the Gospel to women and girls. She was needed in that role because in that culture it is not considered worth the trouble to educate them. She said they wanted her to teach them the Gospel so that they could in turn teach their people. An elementary school, high school, and even college were established. When she returned briefly a decade later, she found that the girls she had taught were teachers, nurses, and even missionaries by that time. She called it a "miracle," and she was exactly right. :)

[Shine]

1. Hmmm...

:popcorn:

[Kali]

2. I call that missionizing.

It's not particularly miraculous - in fact it is rather common and there is a viewpoint that the practice is culturally destructive. I won't go quite so far to say it is all bad but... no I don't think that is even close to miraculous, sorry.

[ghostsofgiants]

5. +1

[Dogtown]

20. I agree, Kali

+2

[GoddessOfGuinness]

3. Successful conversion with an emphasis on the "con"?

I kind of miss the headhunters.

[Lorien]

4. Sounds like the modern world made it to Papua New Guinea

kinda tough for it not to, what with the availability of technology.

No, I still don't believe in "miracles".

[Manifestor_of_Light]

6. You got causation there.

Educate the girls, teach them to read, and they will become teachers and nurses.

The Bible had nothing to do with it.

Educate the girls and you uplift the whole society.

[ZombieHorde]

7. What definition of the word "miracle" are you using?

If by "miracle" you mean "the expected results of education", then I guess one could use that label, but I wonder what their motivation would be for doing so.

[sarge43]

8. I'd call that hard work and dedication.

A miracle is an event that can't be explained by natural causes.

Further, saying it's a miracle takes the accomplishment out of their hands.

[lizerdbits]

9. Am I missing something?

If people are educated they will educate others. How is that miraculous? Of course that would require me to believe in miracles.

[RagAss]

10. Miracles ain't what they used to be I guess.

[Haole Girl]

11. What do I call it?

Ethnocentric.

[Bertha Venation]

12. I wonder why Sister Barbara diminishes her own role in

the difference her actions made in those womens' lives. I can see that thinking her placement at that moment in time might be miraculous, but it is she who taught, therefore she who made a difference.

I don't wish to denigrate anyone's faith; that's not what I'm doing here. I just think that too much credit is given to god. It ought to be okay for people of faith to take the credit for their actions. Thank god? Sure. Call the results of their actions "miraculous?" Selling one's self short.

[Brigid]

13. Lots of cynics around here, I see.

In the movie "Oh, God!" George Burns says, "I don't do miracles anymore -- too flashy." A miracle doesn't have to involve parting of an ocean or fir and brimstone. How about a woman who finds the strength to care for her ailing mother for years, or a firefighter who bothers to revive a puppy suffering from smoke inhalation? Or maybe it's nothing more than the rush you feel while skiing. Small miracles happen every day; you'll see them if you don't let cynicism block your view.

Ethnocentric? The women of Papua New Guinea wanted to learn the Gospel so that they can teach their own people, who would then go on to improve the lives of their own people, expressing their faith in their way. In other words, Sister Barbara and the others worked themselves out of a job, which is just what they set out to do. Any good missionary has that as his or her aim. God used the sisters, and then the women they taught, in a miraculous way.

Let the naysayers scoff all they want -- God is at work in the world today. :)

[Haole Girl]

14. Cynic?

Nope, sorry. I've been called a lot of things in my life, but never that. When I feel better, I'll direct you to some good etnologies about Papua New Guinea. I can't look them up right now. One of the authors is Dr. Leslie Conton. You might read a bit more before believing everything you hear from one church.

[oregonjen]

15. In "Oh God!" John Denver says, "We need help!"

Then God says, "That's why I gave you each other." Acting in kindness, will bring kindness in return. The human spirit is the miracle, not the religion.

[Deep13]

24. how cliched

You attribute the mere fact that other people exist, a precondition to ones own existence, as evidence of divine intervention. And it has been my experience that kindness will not always bring kindness in return. Sometimes it brings a kick in the teeth.

[oregonjen]

25. I interpreted the op to be that the religion itself produced the miracle

She used "Oh God!" as an example, so I used the movie in my example. It's not the religion itself, but the people who produce the "miracles."

Yes, of course, negative interaction occurs as well. I'm not a Pollyanna.

[Shell Beau]

18. I believe in miracles. I also believe they happen daily and don't

have to be "magnificent" to be considered miraculous.

[Deep13]

23. I guess he's an underachiever.

And those who ascribe ordinary things to god are the cynics because they assume humans are incapable of doing good without some magic puppetmaster behind it all.

[Midlodemocrat]

16. I, wholeheartedly and unequivocally believe in miracles.

I believe in 'piercing the veil' as well.

PM me if you want the story. But, grab some kleenex.

[montanto]

17. Failed teachers are always human, successful teachers are always

God. Go figure. I think its sad that people can't see the good in other people and have to ascribe human and humanitarian success to an imaginary being. My SIL did this this past weekend. I drove five hours one-way to do some major repair work on the house she just bought, drywalling the kitchen, removing a window and patching the old opening, and according to her it was "God's blessing" upon her. No. It was just me.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

19. I remember quite vividly

the stories the nuns used to tell us. This one sounds like one of theirs, only it lacks the theatrical touch of "and they had all become nuns and then the Communists came and tortured them and told them that if they were Catholics they'd be killed, and when the Communists asked them if they were Catholics, they were killed and now they're in Heaven with God forever."

Those women were the biggest bunch of bullshitters I've ever encountered.

This, THIS is a miracle:

[no name no slogan]

26. That's funny, because when the Commies showed up in my neck of the woods

All I got was a little red book, enough food to eat, a roof over my head, and an education. I guess I got robbed. :(

[Deep13]

21. I'm sorry, what is the miracle?

So she went to PNG to indoctrinate children with religion. Later someone built schools where the girls were educated and they went on to become productive citizens. Unfortunately, some of them still felt it necessary to proselytize to others.

Yes, education is good. Where's the miracle?

[grace0418]

22. I do believe in amazing things happening, call them miracles if you will. However,

I don't necessarily think what you are describing is a miracle. I'm glad to see these girls get educated and cared for, but I much prefer when folks do humanitarian deeds just for the sake of helping others, not so they can convert them to any religion.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. Education is a good thing, but no miracle.

"God" had nothing to do with it.