DU Radicals, check in!!!

[DerekG]

There are a considerable number of people here (myself included) who are quite different than the majority of DUers--who see some kind of dichotomy between the Democrats and Republicans. We're the kind of people who bristle when we read such messages as "this country will return to normal once the neo-cons are out" or "Bush has isolated America from the world community" or "we've never declared a preemptive war against anyone until today".

Whether we're right or wrong, we radicals feel like the fix was in LOOOONNNNGGGG before the Supreme Court fixed the election. Kennedy assassination theories and Iran-Contra discussions are too mainstream for us. Even LIHOP isn't realistic enough for us.

How do you know if you're a radical? Well, do any of these terms ring a bell (add your own):

FEMA
National Security State/Council
MK-ULTRA
Franklin Cover-Up
Phoenix Program
Operation Northwoods

Bonus: Can you identify the names of at least 12 countries that DEMOCRATIC administrations intervened in?


CHECK IN!!

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. Living with congenital inoperable anti-Imperialism here

I'm so extreme, I don't even believe the world is the property of the US.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

3. I'm right there with you.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. Guess I am fairly radical in that

I don't trust the gov't no matter who is running it. As you say, we tend to go meddling in the affairs of other nations.

[mmm]

4. You're too good for me.

Democracy in the US ended when the US killed
Kennedy. Bush was behind 911. We need to
stop all aid to Israel for peace to flourish in the area.
I watched our securities markets turned into a plaything for
the wealthy (and a sucker's gave for the rest of us).
Civil war in the US within the next 50 years seems inevitable.
I am far far left on most every issue.
Even so, I can only tell you about two of the six items listed.

I bow to your radical superiority.

[TheMightyFavog]

5. You've got it all wrong

The JFK assasination, RFK's assasination, Teddy's Cappaquadick (sp?) incident, JFK, Jr's plane crash, 9/11, the black helicopters, Discordianism (Hail Eris!) and the Church of the SubGenuis, Area 51, Peak Oil, The XFL, the neocon agenda, the Boy Scout's connection to the Bavarian Illuminati, The Metric System, Bob Costas' hair, Sparky's conversion to Conservatisim after getting knocked in the head by a flying toilet, and The Madrid bombings are all part of the Penguin Liberation Front's secret war on humanity. Yeah, sure penguins look cute and harmless, yet underneath that facade lies a conspiracy to enslave all of humani....

*Sounds of webbed feet and squawking

Noooo, noooo NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

HELP!!!!!!!! THEY"VE COME FOR MEEEEEEEEEE!

[DerekG]

9. Re: First Comment...

"Democracy in US ended when the US killed Kennedy"

I read a passage from a writer who basically said "fascism came to this country with the death of Roosevelt, and made it known that it would not be trifled with in Dallas, Texas--November 22, 1963."

Although I disagree with many posters when they claim that Kennedy's 1000 days were laudable, his LAST 14 months in office were something truly extraordinary. He entered the White House a cold warrior, and yet he began to see the writing on the wall, little by little.

I do believe that Kennedy--despite his mixed record--was the one president who tried to pull us away from the abyss.

[roughsatori]

6. Finally a thread I can check into wholeheartedly NT

[SarahB]

7. I'm a rather cynical radical these days

I know this stuff and tend to feel we're rather doomed in this country, but still, there's the factor of the lesser of two evils and making sure the worst of the worst aren't in power anyway. Maybe it'll buy us a few more years before extinction anyway.

[Brewman_Jax]

8. Count me in!

:tinfoilhat:

[bobthedrummer]

10. I'm a survivor of COINTELPRO/Operation CHAOS domestic ops

and a former SDS high-school associate. Someone thought I was a radical, then.

I've belonged to, and worked for, labor organizations.

I'm a musician, all right.
:hi:

on edit: the only consistent thing I am radical about are fascists, I am an independent anti-fascist.

[mitchtv]

11. Hi there,

leftover from the 60's. I long for the new generation to pick up the mantle .

[Zinfandel]

12. The Trilateral Commission. Let's start there.

[plurality]

13. Nutcase anarchist reporting for duty!

Yep they sound pretty familiar of course there's always the dandy COINTELPRO of course that's kind of mainstream, how about the Morgan Dupont coup of '33.

And let's see Democratic interventions...

Wilson-Haiti, Dominican Republic
Truman-Greece, Korea, Taiwan
Kennedy-Cuba, Vietnam
Johnson-continue Vietnam (doesn't count), Laos
Carter-Afghanistan, Iran
Clinton-Somalia, Yugoslavia, Iraq

That's 13 just off the top of my head, but with a little research.

Wilson
MEXICO/ 19l3/ Naval/ Americans evacuated during revolution.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC/ 1914/ Naval/ Fight with rebels over
Santo Domingo.
MEXICO/ 1914-18/ Naval, troops/ Series of interventions against
nationalists.
HAITI/ 1914-34/ Troops, bombing/ 19-year occupation after revolts.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC/ 1916-24/ Troops/ 8-year Marine
occupation.
CUBA/ 1917-33/ Troops/ Military occupation, economic protectorate.
WORLD WAR I/ 19l7-18/ Naval, troops/ Ships sunk, fought Germany.
RUSSIA/ 1918-22/ Naval, troops/ Five landings to fight Bolsheviks.
PANAMA/ 1918-20/ Troops/ 'Police duty' during unrest after elections.
YUGOSLAVIA/ 1919/ Troops/ Marines intervene for Italy against
Serbs in Dalmatia.
HONDURAS/ 1919/ Troops/ Marines land during election campaign.

FDR
WORLD WAR II/ 1941-45/ Naval,troops, bombing, nuclear/ Fought
Axis for 3 years; 1st nuclear war.

Truman
IRAN/ 1946/ Nuclear threat/ Soviet troops told to leave north (Iranian
Azerbaijan).
YUGOSLAVIA/ 1946/ Naval/ Response to shooting-down of
U.S.plane.
URUGUAY/ 1947/ Nuclear threat/ Bombers deployed as show of
strength.
GREECE/ 1947-49/ Command operation/ U.S. directs extreme-right in
civil war.
CHINA/ 1948-49/ Troops/ Marines evacuate Americans before
Communist victory.
GERMANY/ 1948/ Nuclear threat/ Atomic-capable bombers guard
Berlin Airlift.
PHILIPPINES/ 1948-54/ Command operation/ CIA directs war against
Huk Rebellion.
PUERTO RICO\ 1950/ Troops, naval, bombing, nuclear threats/
Independence rebellion crushed in Ponce.
KOREA/ 1951-53(-?)/ U.S.& South Korea fight China & North Korea
to stalemate; A bomb threat in 1950, & vs.China in 1953. Still have
bases.

Kennedy
CUBA/ 1961/ Command operation/ CIA-directed exile invasion
fails.
GERMANY/ 1961/ Nuclear threat/ Alert during Berlin Wall crisis.
CUBA/ 1962/ Nuclear threat/ Naval Blockade during missile
crisis; near-war with USSR.
LAOS/ 1962/ Command operation/ Military buildup during
guerrilla war.

Johnson
PANAMA/ 1964/ Troops/ Panamanians shot for urging canal's
return.
INDONESIA/ 1965/ Command operation/ Million killed in CIAassisted
army coup.
DOMINICAN REPUBLIC/ 1965-66/ Troops, bombing/ Marines
land during election campaign.
GUATEMALA/ 1966-67/ Command operation/ Green Berets
intervene against rebels.
DETROIT/ 1967/ Troops/ Army battles Blacks, 43 killed.
UNITED STATES/ 1968/ Troops/ After King is shot; over 21,000
soldiers in cities.

Carter
ANGOLA/ 1976-92/ Command operation/ CIA assists South
African-backed rebels.
IRAN/ 1980/ Troops, nuclear threat, aborted bombing/ 8 troops die
in plane crash. Soviets warned not to get involved in
revolution.
I guess they left out the revolution we started in Afganistan in '79

Clinton
SOMALIA/ 1992-94/ Troops, naval, bombing/ U.S.-led United Nations
occupation during civil war; raids against one Mogadishu faction.
YUGOSLAVIA/ 1992-94/ Naval/ Nato blockade of Serbia and
Montenegro.
BOSNIA/ 1993-95/ Jets, bombing/ No-fly zone patrolled in civil war;
downed jets, bombed Serbs.
HAITI/ 1994-96/ Troops, naval/ Blockade against military government;
troops restore President Aristide to office three years after coup.
CROATIA/ 1995/ Bombing/ Krajina Serb airfields attacked before
Croatian offensive.
ZAIRE (CONGO)/ 1996-97/ Troops/ Marines at Rwandan Hutu refuge
camps, in area where Congo revolution begins.
LIBERIA/ 1997/ Troops/ Soldiers under fire during evacuation of
foreigners.
ALBANIA/ 1997/ Troops/ Soldiers under fire during evacuation of
foreigners.
SUDAN/ 1998/ Missiles/ Attack on pharmaceutical plant alleged to be
'terrorist' nerve gas plant.
AFGHANISTAN/ 1998/ Missiles / Attack on former CIA training
camps used by Islamic fundamentalist groups alleged to have
attacked embassies.
IRAQ/ 1998-?/ Bombing, Missiles/ Four days of intensive air strikes
after weapons inspectors allege Iraqi obstructions.
YUGOSLAVIA/ 1999 - ?/ Bombing, Missiles/ NATO air strikes after
Serbia declines to withdraw from Kosovo. NATO occupation of
Kosovo.

http://www.internationalanswer.org/pdf/usmilitaryinterventions.pdf

[proud patriot]

14. here

Nicaragra
Cuba
Venazeula
Panama
Chili
Haiti
El Salvador
Iraq
Laos/Vietnam
Cambodia


Well that's all I can come up with
off the top of my head .

:headbang:

[neverborn]

15. Hrm...

FEMA
no
National Security State/Council
no
MK-ULTRA
yes
Franklin Cover-Up
yes
Phoenix Program
yes
Operation Northwoods
yes

What about Project MONARCH?

[bobthedrummer]

17. Col. Michael Aquino, Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, Dr. Martin Orne

Dr.L. Wilson Greene, Dr. John Gittinger, Capt. George White, Dr. Phyllis Greenacre, Capt. Morse Allen, Dr. Louis "Jolly" West, Dr. Robert Heath, Dr. Paul Hoch, Dr. G. Richard Wendt, Dr. James Hamilton, Steve Aldrich...

Then there is the disturbing fact that in the summer of 1969, there were "Families" {besides the one of Charles Manson} with the same rituals, use of music and mnemomics, drugs and agenda- flourishing in Wisconsin, Indiana and Maryland simultaneously with Manson's-- often with the involvement of some of the prominent Americans I listed.

Decent law-enforcement has been long aware of that fact, many of the subjects have died, been marginalized or disappeared.

There has always been a market for MONARCH products, they are into the third generation of them, if you understand the longitudinal "research".
:puke:

[DerekG]

16. Another problem for us radicals...

When someone starts a "10 Best Presidents" thread, do you find it impossible to name even five?

Example:

Ok, let's see, 10 best presidents...

1. Franklin Roo...(I like him, but...he wasn't so much a leftist as he was the savior of capitalism...Huey Long kinda forced him to move to the left..SCRATCH THAT!!!!)

Ok, let's try that again...

1. Lyndon Jo...(What am I DOING?!?! The guy escalated a genocidal war against Vietnamese peasants...I don't care if he did create HeadStart and Medicare!!!!!!!!!!!)

:mad:

[LastKnight]

18. i prefer the term 'renegade'

that is all.

-LK

[DuctapeFatwa]

19. kick for the imaginary leftist subversives on the west coast

[slack]

20. That's not radical

That's clear thinking. Guys like Bush are radical. Btw, my rings bell and I'am able to identify more than 12 countries intervened by democratic administrations, because there were always interventions. Perhaps without military action, but intervention.
-LIHOP? No, MIHOP.
-"this country will return to normal once the neo-cons are out", something like Canada? Never.
FEMA, yes
National Security State/Council, yes
MK-ULTRA, yes
Franklin Cover-Up, never heard from
Phoenix Program, yes
Operation Northwoods, yes
nice selection ;)

My Bonus: http://www.nowarcollective.com/timor8-99.htm
and http://www.infoshop.org/news2/chomsky_indo.html

[MSchreader]

21. Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer...

I'll keep the red flag flying here!

For the bonus: Kosovo, Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia, Croatia, Haiti, Liberia, DR Congo (formerly Zaire), Somalia, Iran, Angola, Vietnam, Dominican Republic, Indonesia, Panama, Laos, Cuba, Korea, Puerto Rico, Philippines, Uruguay, Greece, Guatemala, Honduras, Soviet Russia. (Many of these countries saw repeated interventions, by both Republican and Democratic administrations.) And this is only during the 20th century!

Martin