Why do some vegans avoid honey?

[TXlib]

I don't quite understand the logic behind it... if it has something to do with it being produced by a bee's labor, then shouldn't they eschew fruits and vegetables that are propagated by insect pollination?

[Qanisqineq]

1. good point

[trotsky]

2. Unpasteurized honey has the potential for botulism.

I've read a story about a totally organic free-range, etc. set of parents trying to raise their kids on that kind of diet. They even eschewed pasteurization, and the kids got sick from botulism due to contaminated honey.

Don't know if that's the reason, just something that came to mind!

[Elad]

3. Vegan means

not using any animal products. Insects are animals, part of the kingdom animalia. Honey bees are farmed, whereas pollinating insects do so naturally.

The fact is that it is impossible to stop using every product that may or may not have some form of human or animal exploitation involved. Vegans know this and accept it. However, it's easy to stop eating honey, so why not live as free from exploitative products as possible? Just because you can't stop all cruelty doesn't mean you shouldn't stop what you can.

Personally though, as a vegan, I eat honey, but I respect people who choose not to.

[TXlib]

4. From a bee's point of view

Is there really any significant material difference between being 'farmed' and existing naturally?

[Elad]

7. This website argues it in-depth, you should read it

I'd hate to cover the ground discussed there, especially since I can't do it as well as they can, and even more so because I do eat honey. :)

http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

[TXlib]

8. HAH HAH HAH

Scroll down to "What About Pain?" and read the first couple of sentences...

It was an interesting article, but it won't sway me.

I love mead, and I can't make mead without honey.

[GOPisEvil]

13. LOL!!!

Is Shrub's brain big enough to be an hors d'ouevre?

[jmowreader]

9. Pollinating insects are farmed too

It's just too logical to stick a beehive or two out in your orchard, so many fruit growers do just that. That way you know you'll have pollination, and you've got a side income stream that costs next to nothing.

[Caution]

11. unfarmed honey bees are practically extinct in the US

Many vegetable and fruit products can only be pollenated via honey bees. I hate to say it but if you aren't eating honey due to the farming of them as animals then you are probably going to have to stop eating most fruit and many vegetables as well. I'm not trying to be snide or condescending here because the inability of these insects to subsist in the wild is due to human intervention. If you are active in the vegan community you should recommend they do some research on honey bees in the US as it pertains to pollenation. It's actually a big problem, many beekeepers get a large portion of their income via farming their bees out to local orchards.

[Dogmudgeon]

5. Grand Theft Honey!

The only way I can understand Vegans is to think of their dietary lifestyle as a kind of yoga, a spiritual discipline centered around avoiding all activities that might be deleterious to animals. So many of the things they do seem absurd.

But who am I to judge?

The ones I don't like are the evangelists -- and that includes low-carb evangelists I've met, who necessarily eat meat. Food is the new Sex, and we are all sluts and whoremongers.

--bkl
Repent! -- And Supersize it!

[ronnykmarshall]

6. But what about honey baked ham?

Ooooooh I get it!

[m-jean03]

10. Many macrobiotic vegans don't eat honey

Because it is nearly as unhealthy as sugar -- very yin, expansive, difficult to balance on a macrobiotic diet. www.macrobioticcooking.com

Me, I'm mostly vegan because I took too many environmental science classes and found out how contaminated animal products really are. Dioxin levels in particular are incredible, off the charts. Meat and dairy are pretty unclean these days -- I think if people realized to what extent there would be more vegans around. And I'm macrobiotic because I have chronic fatigue syndrome and the diet gives me a stable source of energy & strength.

[Goldmund]

12. Are there any studies...

comparing the average lifespan of vegans to the general population?

[TXlib]

14. If I understand correctly...

strict veganism has less to do with health claims of the diet than it does with the ethics of animal exploitation. While I am sure the average vegan's diet is better than that of the average american, I doubt it is the BEST diet one could follow for strictly health reasons.

I would expect that the healthiest diet is that of somebody who is mostly ovo-lacto vegetarian, who allows for occasional fish and poultry.

[bif]

15. A vegan friend of mine explained it like this...

Because some bees may die during the harvesting of the honey, she avoids eating it. She carries a list around of things she can and can't officially eat. Seems a bit extreme to me.

[seaglass]

16. Why do some fruitarians only eat fruit from the ground and

not any fruit that is picked?

[Archae]

17. For this reason:

Honey is bee shit. :evilgrin:

[Dogmudgeon]

19. Wrong!

It's Bee Puke.

There's a difference, y'know!

--beekl
:)

[Qanisqineq]

21. You would be correct

-from an entomologist-

[amazona]

18. that reasoning would be madness

They would not be able to eat any fruit and most vegetables. Maybe root vegetables. They would be dead in months if not weeks from lack of calories if they could not eat animal products yet also could not eat any pollinated plant products. It doesn't leave much that actually has calories!

The reasoning of the vegan friends I know, who don't eat honey, is that they don't eat ANY sugar. And while they are not going to die in months or even maybe this year, yes, some of them are pretty transparently eating disordered/anorexic -- I've played with fire enough with this addiction enough to recognize it in another -- but you can't tell an addict anything she doesn't want to hear.

Please don't give them any ideas that they can't eat anything produced by animal labor, as this really doesn't leave anything they can eat!

I don't doubt there are some healthy vegans out there but my guess is, if a study was done, we would find that most do not live a normal lifespan. E.D. kills younger than the diseases related to over-eating.

[RebelOne]

20. Yep, I think according to PETA, that the bee is being exploited.