The Amish....

[Catherine Vincent]

Are they all white people? Would they let any black people in their group? Just wondering....

[Dookus]

1. My parents

live near the Amish and have befriended some. It's not really a "recruiting" type of deal. People don't "become" Amish - they're born that way.

[Az]

2. Its a pretty closed system

Not the best means of propogating a religious doctrine.

[radwriter0555]

3. it's a cult. you have to marry or be born into it.. in fact I don't

know if you can even marry into it...

who'd WANT to?

[daveskilt]

9. well it is a religion - of course its a cult then.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

19. thats a lie

I know that first hand. You wouldnt be able to "marry into" Amish unless you converted. I remember a family I knew that decided to convert, and the whole family of 4 converted. It was so weird. She was my highschool friend, and suddenly she was wearing the typical amish garb. I never found out if they actually stuck with it. It is odd that someone converts to the faith, and I agree, why would you want to???

They are good peaceful people and nothing to ever fear. They really just want to be left alone to live their lives.. sorta like the rest of us.

[Lorien]

27. WRONG. It's NOT a cult

it's a religion, like being Jewish or Mennonite (basically Amish with electricity). My grandparents were Mennonites, and lived in an Amish community. They lived simply and ALWAYS voted Dem. Amish are very Green and are surprisingly liberal in many of their beliefs. One of the reasons they live so simply is a belief than one should tread lightly on the earth and leave as few footprints behind as possible. My Grandparents marched for civil rights, womens rights, and against the Vietnam war. Amish are also Pacifists. We share more in common with them than you imagine.

Yes, all Amish are white that I know of, though I've never met a racist in the Amish community.

[cally]

35. Would you be willing to share more about your experience

I'm fascinated by the Mennonites and Amish. From your post, it sounds like your parents left the religion. Why? How did the community accept that?

To the original poster, I've never heard that the Amish are racist. It is a very closed society that you are born into for the most part. I doubt many folks with African heritage are members.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

39. My experience

My mother tells me the stories of the German POW's who worked on their farm. Nobody had enough food, including my mothers family. My grandmother would sneak food to the POW's. They were people, and they were hungry, she said. My mother tells of the whooping and celebrating when the war was over. She remembers them walking down the road.. going to the train station??? not sure. I should write down the history.

My mothers family left the Amish church whem my mother was 16. This was my grandpas decision.. my grandma (who is still alive) would not have chosen this. My mother had never joined the church, but they all lived as Amish.

The story is told that my grandfather had a conversion, and realized that you didnt have to "work your way to heaven", by all of these limitations. Leaving the church was not an easy choice, by any means. My grandmother went through hell. If you join the church, and leave, you are shunned cruelly. My grandmother could have no contact with her siblings.. people would cross the street rather than talk to them. At funerals, they were not acknowledged, and were not welcome at weddings. You are buried "outside of the fence".. not even allowed to be buried with family. Grandmas siblings were not allowed to kiss her.. hug her, or even eat at the same table as her. The weddings now have a seperate table for the people that left. My mother remembers my grandmothers pain.. heartwrenching.

Today.. many years later, my grandma has reconciled with family.. Amish family. Just this past year, gramma, who's Amish neighbor birthed a baby with not a fully developed brain... Gramma would walk next door, every day and rock this baby so the mom could tend to her other duties. The baby would only live a month or so, but was crying constantly when not held. Gramma became so attatched to the little guy. My parents were visiting her when the Amish lady knocked on grammas door.. in tears, to tell them that the baby had died. Gramma went next door to hold the baby one more time.

Amazingly, at the funeral, the babys mom actually hugged gramma, in public.. in front of the church leaders. This is not allowed in church. I cant tell you how much this meant to my gramma. She is over 90, and Im not sure she has ever gotten over the "shunning" that she went through when they converted to Mennonite.

[cally]

40. Thanks for responding

I'm crying for your Grandma. She has courage and strength.

[shanti]

63. that was a beautiful story

thank you for sharing.

[shanti]

62. yes, it would be interesting to know

how the amish/mennonites treated slaves. were they part of the underground railroad?

[Padraig18]

37. They're the most fundamentally decent people I've ever met.

I also live among them, and share your sentiments. :)

[daveskilt]

55. difference between a religion and a cult?

time? size? predilection for sacrificing goats?

although I think I did note a tone of derision in the use of the word cult in the post you were responding to.

lovely folks the amish.

[soleft]

61. You can't marry into it - no outsiders allowed

[Zookeeper]

4. I heard something recently....

that reported that the (some?) Amish actually send their young adult children out into the "real" world, so they can make an educated choice about whether to live as part of the Amish community. Although, if they choose not to rejoin the community, I think they are cut off from social contact.

[felonious thunk]

6. That's true

Adult males only, but they do spend several weeks in the real world. I've seen many very very drunk young Amish kids trashing hotel rooms and stuff. They have fun for a couple of weeks and then go back home.

[radwriter0555]

12. No, the girls go out and about too.

then there is the whole thing with the girls being allowed to have sex.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

22. what are you talking about?

sex outside of marriage with the Amish is strictly forbidden.. even during the "sowing of wild oats" phase. Nah.. the Amish have zero problems with teenage pregnancy. Very few exceptions.

I think I can claim to be an expert on this, my mother having been Amish, and having many Amish relatives.

.. watching a buggy clip clop by, as we "speak"

[daveskilt]

8. its called wilding?

[Meatshake]

13. "Devil's Playground"

A really interesting documentary about 16 year old Amish kids.

http://worldfilm.about.com/cs/films/fr/devilplayground.htm

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

21. not true

Thats not true. The parents dont "send" their boys out to see the world. If they did, the farm work would never get done. They do however, overlook alot, and the church overlooks the boys and their "sowing of wild oats". And yes, that does include getting slobbery assed drunk. The boys still have to get up at the crack of dawn to do their work.

When the boys have chosen to join the church, they should have sowed their wild oats, and put that behind them.

This isnt to say that all of the teens go hog wild on drinking binges, but it is not uncommon. Here in lancaster county, it is so very very rare that you ever see any trouble with them. They police themselves.

[cally]

38. It sounds like you live near many Amish

folks and may have relatives in the community. I'm not trying to be disrespectful but how do the Amish view the outsiders? Can you be friends with Amish when you are not a member? I've read enough to know that you can work and be very friendly with Amish. I guess my question is about how closed the community is?

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

41. friends with Amish

Well, if you are a neighbor to an Amish family, you could certainly be friends with them.. they would help you shovel snow, and help in any natural emergency.. storm damage, etc.

You wouldnt socialize with them other than neighborly stuff though. They dont want their kids influenced, or attracted to worldly things.

How do they view outsiders? My experience is that they are suspicious of them somewhat. We have so many tourists around here who are somewhat insensitive to the Amish and their beliefs. If you are just discreet enough, you can take all the pix you want.. just dont be rude and in their faces.

Ill never forget.. driving down 340, and this Amish mother, barefoot, billowing skirt, was pulling 3 adorable kids in a wagon. A car was pulled over, and this woman was chasing after them with a camera!!! So rude!!

Unless you have an inside connection, you arent likely to become friends/acquaintences with an Amish person.. they really do stick to their own. I have some relatives and former neighbors who are happy to give "outsiders" buggy rides, only because they know I wouldnt dream of taking advantage of them.

They dont condemn us "English folk", they really just want to be left alone and respected.

It cannot be overlooked though the horrible cruelity that some Amish in my county inflict on animals. Its disgusting.. the puppy mill horrors. I just dont get it. These poor dogs are nothing but livestock to be bred and sold.

[felonious thunk]

5. The Amish don't try to get new members

They pretty much just go about their lives. I imagine it would be quite hard for anyone to become Amish, that wasn't born into it. I think it would be way off base to assume the Amish would be racist, that would not follow with their beliefs at all. The Amish people I've met have always been extremely friendly and polite.

[Westegg]

7. Kinda like the Shakers religious sect...?

Except the Shakers' acceptance of a strict vow of celibacy has led to their virtual disappearance. Duh...

[daveskilt]

10. and the six fingered mennonites

the recessive gene after years of inbreeding has led to about 50% of the mennonites having 6 fingers per hand.

[radwriter0555]

11. I met the most fascinating mennonites on my recent trip to China...

a couple, unmarried. She was VERY traditional, as was their daughter. The gentleman was swedish and far more a grandpa type... and he wasn't a true mennonite. The mother looked at first like she was barely 16, but later turned out to be almost 30. The child was lovely.

The mother was a rebel in her community for driving a CAR.

The dad was VERY wealthy, and lavished lovely accomodations and year round travel on the his girlfriend and daughter.

[terryg11]

16. forgot the sarcasm smiley there

I thought you were serious

[daveskilt]

54. seriously - amish of lancaster - half have 6 fingers

due to a reccesive gene - condition called Ellis-van Creveld syndrome. Learned all about them many moons ago in a sociology class in college. Lots of groups with inbreeding have wacky genetic things going on that alter the social structure or interactions or physical features of the group. Like the island in the south pacific where almost a third of babies are born with undetermined gender and they even just assume three main genders there.

as far as links about this in the amish

http://library.thinkquest.org/19926/text/tour/09.htm?tqskip1=1&tqtime=0513

http://gait.aidi.udel.edu/res695/homepage/pd_ortho/educate/clincase/chnect.htm

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

23. LOL

you are joking, right? I live in the heart of the Amish country, and have yet to see a 6 fingered Mennonite, or Amish person.

You are right though about the "in-breeding". The Amish are a genetecites (sp?) dream. They have co-operated extensively with medical scientists trying to research matters like this. Diseases and such. All of us Amish, Mennonites, and descendants of them here in Lancaster County can be traced back to the original 14 or so families that migrated here from Germany.

We have volumnes of a book called the "Fisher book", a book of geneology that has kept all of the records back to my original anscestor, Nicholas Fisher. My name is actually in the book!

[smirkymonkey]

49. Wouldn't such closed breeding

lead to serious genetic problems? I am no geneticist, but you can see what kind of effect such a shallow gene pool had on many of the European royal families.

[daveskilt]

56. like leopold of sax coburg - thought he was a small village

in the south of france for a couple of years. mad old fellow.

[smirkymonkey]

59. Actually, I read a book about all the mad

or mentally deranged monarchs of Europe (including numerous physical problems from inbreeding) and there were quite a lot of them besides Leopold - Ludwig of Bavaria, Joan of Castille, King George III, Gian Gastone de Medici of Tuscany, Fyodor I of Russia, Isabel of Portugal, et al. That's just a few of them.

I think that's why they started marrying commoners - needed some new genes thrown into the pool. :)

[JM]

14. If Jewish people are called Jews...

...what are Amish people called?

Just curious... :evilgrin:

To answer the question, it is a closed system...You don't become one by choice to my knowledge. It also answers why they too have their own syndromes and other fun custom genetics.

JM

[bleedingheart]

26. Half the tests done on infants in the state of PA are due to

the genetic disorders inherent in the Amish community. The inbreeding has created some really unusual ailments.

[Nikia]

15. I think that you could if you really wanted

I know for sure that you can become Mennonite by choice. I believe that you could be Amish by choice in some communities. My aunt was involved with some thing with some Amish things. She said that she was considering becoming Amish which they had given her the impression that she could become. I don't know what would involved or if you had to be specially invited after living like them for a while, sort of like some convents.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

25. join the Amish

well its a faith. They believe they need to be seperate from the world.


First off, you need to toss the computer, turn off your electric.. forever, chuck your worldly clothes, buy a horse and buggy.. once you join the church, no cars for you, toss the birth control, repent for any premarital sex you have had.. repent for all the terrible stuff you have done. You need to stop shaving your pits, legs, etc. You would never cut your hair again, toss the makeup.. cover your head..
learn to clean, quilt, garden like a maniac. Oh.. you would have to get rid of the photos (graven images) that you have.. their is so much more. Go to their churches every Sunday.

Ive often thought the militant muslims could learn much from the peaceful Amish.

I think the Amish kids are so cute. I stay at a rustic cabin for a week every summer. It is right next to an Amish family who has the most adorable kids. I have become friends with the parents and really wanted to have pix of the kids. I asked permission from the parents to take pix. the mom said yes, as long as I was discreet. I got the most adorable pix. The mom was so thrilled when I showed her, and offered her prints, which she LOVES. (big no no) At least she will have pictures of her kids as children. My mother has no childhood photos of herself. Not even one photo until she was about 17, when they left the church.

[terryg11]

17. It might depend on what order of Amish you wanted to join

Some are rather closed and skeptical of outsiders yet they are very often quite friendly. If you were serious about joining I think you could.

[Catherine Vincent]

20. I don't want to join, I was just wondering because everytime

I see pics of them, they are white folks.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

18. yes

Finally something I know somehting about. :) My mother was Amish, many of my relatives are still Amish. The Amish will welcome any race to convert to their religion. They are not a cult. They don't vote/endorse anything politically. They are concientious objectors in war-time.

Many of the Amish find the religion too constrictive, and tire of seeing the neighboring farmers plowing feilds with tractors, doing way more work in way less time, and the do leave the church. They often convert to the mennonite faith.. very plainly dressed at its strictest. The mennonites are anything but rascist. Here in Lancaster County, it is quite common to see "fresh air kids" in the summer living with mennonite families. They are usually elementary aged kids, ethnic, and having a blast on the farm. They are city kids, philly, nyc, etc.. Often life-long friendships are developed.

The Amish will reach out to and help anybody in need. Ive been stuck in the snow with my car, and had an Amish guy jump out of his buggy and push me out.

As in any group, youll have some bad eggs, but all in all, they are wonderful, peaceful people. The movie "Witness" did a nice attempt at portraying them honestly.

Unfortunately many of the Amish are notorious for treating all of their animals like "livestock". It has been extremely disapointing to see all of the lancaster county puppy mills owned by the Amish.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

24. Thank you...

Your post is most informative. It's important not to conjecture about people and misconstrue assumptions as facts. I've always admired the Amish for their self-sufficiency and their ability to live in this world, but not of this world.

It's wonderful to hear that the Mennonites open their hearts to kids who might otherwise never see a farm. There's a Mennonite church near me that has always been active in helping lift the victims of war and poverty to their feet, apparently without lectures on religion.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

30. fresh-air kids

Yeah, it is really cool to see the "amish/mennonite" families hosting fresh air kids. The Amish don't host them, but the mennonites do. It would hardly be practical for the Amish, with no electric, and a horse and buggy, to host a kid that cant work their ass off yet. These Amish kids work like maniacs.

You should see the things the Amish do though to get around the rules. Many have little "outhouse" type buildings at the end of their lanes, that house a telephone. They have generators that run electric in their barns.. lots of them do. They use gas powered freezers, and hang kerosene lanterns for light.

Their kids dont go to high school, they are needed to work on the farm. My mother has a 7th grade education. Mennonites finish high school and many are highly educated.

I know this is long, but let me tell you a story about a picture my mom drew as a child. It shows her, she was the 2cnd eldest (she has 15 siblings) out behind a chicken barn. A bunch of chickens with questions marks over their heads are in the drawing. My mom has tears running down her face in the drawing. Grandpa had assigned her the chore of "purging" the sick chickens. She had to wring their necks. She said she would stretch the neck until she heard a snap, then toss the chicken into the manure spreader... crying throughout it all. The Amish kids dont have it easy.

My mom was quite an artist, and their are more drawings like that.. so sad.

[Lorien]

29. Good to hear from someone else

close to the community!. I'm so sick of the hateful (and ignorant)views on the Amish that I've so often read on these boards. My mother and her parents were Mennonites who grew up in a Amish community in Ohio, and I'm always rather distressed to read what those unfamiliar with Amish and Amish life believe about them.

Sorry to hear about the animal mistreatment going on in Lancaster county. So far, I haven't heard of similar mistreatment in Northeastern Ohio.One Amish family we know just lost a dog after a long illness, and were incredibly distressed about it.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

34. howdy

"canst du deitz svetza?" :) Not sure on the spelling, but "can you speak dutch?" My mom taught me limited phrases. Yeah, I agree, their is lots of misinformation about the Amish.

Those of us that have grown up around it can pick the Amish out from a mile away. Its in the way they carry themselves. My sister, on her sr. trip to Wildwood NJ, managed to get in a club to dance the night away. She saw this guy across the bar, and just by the way he carried himself, she new he was Amish. It was so funny. He had ditched his Amish clothes, and was trying so hard to fit in. It wasnt working.. least not to an educated eye like hers. Their hands are callused from work.. they dont feel at all comfortable around the "English" people, and though the partying kids might think it isnt obvious, well.. it is obvious as the nose on their faces.

I know that their is an Amish reality show in the works, that has our local bishops quite upset. Actually, the promoters had a very very hard time convincing any Amish teens to participate. The bishops say that the teens had never joined the church anyway, and probably never intended on joining the church. they think the kids are being exploited, and our community is very upset about it. I know I will be watching it.

I am aware of the huge Amish community in Ohio. My father, since retiring, hauls the Amish all over the country in his van. Apparently it is fine for the Amish to use public transportation, just not to own a car. They sure do get around the rules.

Okay.. I have monopolized this thread long enough..

[Catherine Vincent]

46. Thanks for all the info.

And welcome to DU!

[Faygo Kid]

28. Ya think it's Iverson's next move? He is in Pennsylvania.

Now there's an Amish wannabe.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

31. The reason that most (all?) Amish are white

is, as a previous poster said, that they are descended from people who came here from Germany in the 18th century to escape religious persecution. I believe that many of them still speak "Pennsylvania Dutch" (actually an old-style dialect of German) at home.

I have a great deal of respect for the Mennonites. There were quite a few of them in the small Oregon town where I lived for seven years. I find their way of life too uptight about personal behavior (sort of like the fundamentalists), but they are UNLIKE the fundamentalists in their pacifism, which naturally leads to concern for worldwide poverty, the environment, and other social issues. They are also well-known for sending out volunteers to help after natural disasters, without doing any evangelizing or accepting payment. They're the only Biblical literalists who try to take the inconvenient stuff about peace and justice seriously.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

32. good post

You are right on about the generosity of the Mennonites for those in need. I remember as a kid, whenever we visited grandma, she was always showing me all of the little dresses, blankets, etc that she had sewn for the kids in _______ (insert needy country). The dresses were so pretty, and I wanted one for myself.

The school I went to (a mennonite school) hosted the Mennonite relief fund, where they raised tons of money selling quilts, baked goods, etc. to send to _______ (insert needy country)

The mennonite college my sister went to, Eastern Mennonite University, takes busloads of students to peace rallys.

I am not sure that I agree that they don't try to convert, if given the chance. They send missionaries all over the place.

The Amish dont try to convert anybody. Really, who would want to live like that??

The Amish and Mennonite are not tolerant of gays though. Some Mennonites have become more tolerant, but the Amish.. well, Im not sure they even know their is a such of a thing as "homosexual". :). I dont think you would be allowed to be openly gay, and be Amish. I dont think you could be openly gay, with a partner, and be welcome in the Mennonite church.

Also, you would be hardpressed to find a Mennonite who is prochoice. The Amish..well, if the teenager gets pregnant, the choice would likely be to m ake an honest woman out of her, and the guy would marry her. Divorce is nonexistant with the Amish. Even if the guy beats the shit out of his wife.. you stay married.
Anyway, it has been fun to chat about something that I actually know something about.

[Orangepeel]

42. Welcome to DU, florencedollar!

:hi:

Thanks for sharing your insights!

[Padraig18]

33. I live among the Amish.

I live in the 'heart of Illinois' Amish country', and the Amish are poorly understood, I think. They are descended for the Anabaptists who fled Switzerland and Holland and came to America in the late 18th Century. The anabaptists essentially 'split', or had a schism; those who followed Bishop Menno became what we now know as Mennonites, and those who followed Bishop Amon became Amish.

The two sects interpret parts of the Bible differently, hence their lifestyles are different; the Mennonites can use electricity, telephones and cars, e.g., but only for work or other 'moral' purposes. Most Amish shun these things, or only use them in limited ways (operating a dairy, e.g.).

Neither sect prostelytizes. In fact, before one is admitted into the church, one must live and work amongst the 'Utlanders', or 'English', and then return to the community voluntarily. this typically occurs at about 16-21.

I know many Amish and Mennonite people, and have found them to be very nice, decent, hard-working, law-abiding and friendly people who make excellent neighbors.

:)

[7 Lazy P]

36. You could join....

If you wanted. Not many people convert.

There's quite a few living here in York county, PA. The closest out-lier to me is now about a mile away. They've jumped the river to find cheaper and more available farms, as they are not making any more land in Lancaster county. In my experience they are industrious and hard working people, but don't get the idea they don't like to make money just like us "english". If you were to join, you would need a dull sense of smell. They do not bathe quite as frequently and spending an hour or two in a closed room or a car with a few can be trying.

Mennonites are known as "car Amish" (local joke)

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

43. black bumper mennonites

LOL!! And then the Mennonites who can have no chrome on their cars!! Yeah.. we sorta get a kick out of the silly rules. so many different sects.

And bathing.. dang straight.. they dont bathe enough and deoderant.. well I guess they havent heard of it.

I kid you not.. my mother remembers just washclothing her hair daily. No joke.. her and all her sisters had a hair washing twice a year!!! They would lay their heads against benches, and the brothers would have buckets to rinse with!! She claims she was clean, but I dont see how!

We have a local swimming hole, a nice clean pond that allows the amish kids to swim at it. They have posted rules.. no mixed bathing. Mondays are for girls.. wednesdays for boys.. etc. It is in the small town I grew up in. Because we are trusted, my family is allowed to go. You should FRIGGIN smell the little shed that these teenage girls change in!! Apparently nobody believes in deoderant. Its nasty!! They all swim in prehistoric homemade bathings suits with skirts on them.

[daveskilt]

57. no deoderant? I thought they were german not french!

:) Last time I was in france I saw 5 day deoderant in a store. no joke. lasts 5 days. no wonder paris smells so bad.

[Dogmudgeon]

44. The Amish have some problems

Yes, they're generally fine, upstanding people, but the Amish community has some very nasty problems that don't get a lot of press -- child abuse (violence, sex, and neglect), spousal abuse, elder abuse, alcoholism, and mental illness.

Many problems come from their inward-turning social practices; it's like a pressure cooker for a lot of Amish. Many are mistrustful to the point of paranoia. This isn't a good thing; how many Pennsylvania Dutch are suffering unnecessarily?

This isn't to say that the Amish are bad people. They're just suffering a lot more than we see. I know that several similar organizations, like Mennonites, have started social services outreach to Amish communities, but this is fairly new. The Amish leadership is terrified of losing control and becoming "worldly". It's a sad situation, but ignoring it won't make it go away.

--bkl

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

45. my last post

I swear.. yes, I agree, the Amish are by no means any different than the rest of us regarding problems. They hide them better than the rest of us, and the churches try to deal with them as "spiritual problems" rather than legal issues.

My mother used to transport an Amish woman to a prison to visit her husband who had molested all of their children. yuck.

I would guess that alcoholism and violence and such are way lower from the Amish, but Id betcha that incest and most certainly mental illness are equal with the rest of society. Maybe even more with the mental illness.

Because of the "inbreeding" you see way way way more dwarfism from the Amish. I remember reading in my paper how scientists from all over the world come to lancaster countly to study the Amish because the gene pool is so "pure".

And this is my last post on the Amish.. goodnite, its been fun.

florencedollar

[GabysPoppy]

58. I can't thank you enough for your sharing your story

I really would love to know more and more. Could you please when it's convenient for you, list some good books to purchase which I could start reading.

I would so much appreciate it if you could PM the information to me.


Thank you


GP

[Catherine Vincent]

47. Thanks to all on the info about the Amis people.

It's good to hear first hand experience about them. I live in Texas and I don't believe there are any here. So whenever they are mentioned on tv or I read about them, I was just wanting some info on them.

One of the many reasons why I love DU!

[marigold20]

48. -We knew some Hutterites when we lived in Montana.

Another branch of the Amish tradition. The ladies all wore polka dot headscarves. I believe they are truly communal and don't have many personal belongings. I remember that their colonies split when they have too many families - they draw straws to see which families will go to the new colony. There are quite a few colonies in Montana, Alberta and Saskatchewan.

[Pikku]

50. Mennonites and Amish aren't the same thing

That should be brought out first. It seems fuzzy in a couple of posts, which is why I'm bringing it up.

Second, both these are PEACE churches (as are the Brethren and the Quakers). Notwithstanding what happens among the practicioners, they are followers of pacifict religions, and both have suffered consequences as such. I know that the interest of the original poster was a bit different, but we should recognize that we are seeing what what Bush* says doesn't exist: the existence of fundamentalist (in the truest sense!) Christianswho are not pro- military or pro-war. Amish/Mennonite/Brethren/Quaker are by nature questioners and dissenters. They've been executed for their beliefs.

There are some barriers, but shouldn't we be embracing these people, if possible? We have a group that says that war is anti-Biblical. Many of us feel the same. Some of these "peace churches" are even examining issues outside the military-industrial complex.
http://www.bmclgbt.org/

Meanwhile Bush* is claiming the Bible as his personal political platform, and building a platform around it. He's trademarking Christianity. Isn't it time to stop him?

[Interrobang]

51. I don't know much about the Amish, but Mennonites...

There are a lot of Mennonites of all varieties near Kitchener-Waterloo where I lived for two years. One occasionally sees them as far west as London, but usually only near the bus station. There are at least three varieties of Mennonites around there, many of whom are descended from Mennonites from different countries.

There are Old Order Mennonites, who don't use electricity or telephones or drive cars, and wear formal clothing in black and white, stiff bonnets, hats, vests, collars, the whole deal.

There are the sort of "reform" Mennonites who may or may not drive cars, have electricity, or telephones, and who wear similar type clothing to the Old Order types, except in more colours (for instance, the men might wear blue work pants and denim shirts and men's suit vests, and the women might wear flowered dresses in bright colours, or blue dresses, something like that -- there seems to be one group of either this type or a more relaxed Old Order type who wear nothing but blue), and the women usually only wear a little bonnet made out of a sort of netting, or a smaller, token head covering. (A Mennonite lady of this type of my acquaintance told me that the reason they wore these bonnets was because they must have their heads covered when they pray, and they never know when they might need to pray!)

Then there are the modernized, "jack" Mennonites, who are generally just like non-Mennonites, except that they tend to be a little more socially conservative. There are a *lot* of this sort of Mennonites living in Kitchener-Waterloo, and regions north. (Although, I do know one fellow who is ostensibly Mennonite, and he's one of the dirtiest partiers I know!) Incidentally, as far as I can tell (having been invited to church by a couple of them) joining this type of Mennonite church is about as difficult as joining most other Christian churches!

The Mennonites in this area primarily came here from Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, and Russia. Some arrived in the early 1900s (1917 is fairly common -- after the Russian Revolution), and a lot arrived during and after WWII. They primarily speak a dialect of German that isn't mutually intelligible AFAIK to the loads and loads of German-speakers already living in K-W (which boasts the largest Oktoberfest outside of Munich!).

There are endemic problems in the community, including inbreeding, spousal/child abuse, lack of good schooling (many of the Old Order women are illiterate and most of the OO men aren't very educated either), and coercive marriage. Naturally, there isn't a whole lot anyone from the outside can do about it, since the problems are rarely reported (although anecdotally obvious) to the authorities, and people are reluctant to get involved because of freedom of religion statutes. (An aquaintance of mine who drifted from the Old Order to the modernized Mennonites has a horror story about being married off at age 14 to a man some 40 years her senior, against her will. She became a mother at 15, but there is more or less a happy ending to the story -- he contracted cancer and died, which is not the happy part, and left her an estate worth some multiple millions of dollars... In his defense, she always said he treated her as nicely as one could want, which doesn't, I think, mitigate the horror of being a child bride!)

That's about all I have to say about Mennonites. Sorry I went off for so long on something slightly off-topic (I know we were discussing Amish), but I think they're interesting. :)

[Catherine Vincent]

52. Well I appreciate your thoughts.

I didn't know about the Mennonites. Only a little about the Amish. I think it's kinda cool of them being the way they are (not the bad stuff, though). But to live day to day like that and no worries about your mortgage, car note, day to day expenses.

[NashVegas]

53. Trying to Figure Out What to Do When the Oil Runs Out, Are You?

:)

[Catherine Vincent]

65. You got me!

One of the many websites I've been reading had info on how the Amish grew veggies and how they lived without electricity and stuff, so that's what made me ask questions about them here.

[JeffersonStarship]

60. The Amish are cool

They are cool like the Quakers. Peaceful people, probably not big fans of Bush.

Does anyone know if the Amish vote? If they do vote, does anyone know if they are typically Republicans or Democrats? That'd be interesting to know.

[dawn]

64. I don't know enough about them, but I used to get an Amish catalog.

They sold all this really cool non-electric stuff. I wish I still got the catalog. I think it's really neat that they are very self-sufficient and don't abuse natural resources.

[guitar man]

66. We have some here

Out east of Tulsa,around the little town of Choteau. I am not sure whether they are Amish,Mennonite or a mixture of both in the area.

Anyway,they have a restaraunt in Choteau called the Dutch Pantry. Any time I am out that way,I have to stop in and eat. They must not be very judgemental people because I have repeatedly committed the sin of gluttony in their restaraunt and they don't complain. They serve it all up buffet style,and it is all the best country cookin' you could ever imagine with the food fresh off their farms.

Nobody and I mean nobody makes better pies and pastries than this place. I usually come home with 3 or 4 pies every time I go out there.:)

[Wapsie B]

67. It is my understanding

that if you left the Amish settlement for the "white man's" ways, you couldn't go back. But maybe that's changed.
I know there is a period of time around when a person is in their late teens or early twenties where some sects will allow them to live amongst the white people. There's a movie out that describes this so well. Devil's Playground is the name.

[VOX]

68. Clop clop clop clop BANG BANG clop clop clop clop...

Another Amish drive-by...:evilgrin:

[Catherine Vincent]

69. kick for the Amish....