Do you want ammonia with your burger? Oh, too late. It is already in it.

[HopeHoops]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100101/ap_on_bi_ge/us_beef_ammonia_7

:puke:

[Kali]

1. too bad the article you linked to didn't explain ANYTHING about the issue.

This was something new to me (and I raise beef cattle) and I figured it was just another spray on/wash procedure for the mass produced beef that gets a little sloppy on the line because of the speeds involved, but what actually consists of is exposing it to ammonia gas to increase the alkalinity and theoretically inhibit bacterial growth and reproduction. Some basic bio-chemistry there and mostly another harmless bandaid to try and make up for the risks in the system.

Ironically of course, is that ammonia is a by-product of protien digestion (no matter the source of the protien). A simple pH test allows a person to check protein levels in dung and adjust supplements to cattle if needed.

[Gormy Cuss]

2. I have no problem with any measure taken that makes me safe from the e. coli

Maybe Rapiscan can develop tiny little backscatter imaging machines to screen ground meat. Better that than addressing the problems inherent in a CAFO-based beef production system.

:banghead:

[HopeHoops]

4. Stay away from large-scale farm animal parts.

Yeah, I know - veggies have been the source of human infection too, but the original source is always traced back to big farm animal waste.

[Kali]

7. um, got links?

"always traced back to big farm animal waste"

care to back that up?

[Gormy Cuss]

9. You mean, like CAFO animal parts?

:D

[Kali]

10. mmmm hot links!

:rofl:

[Gormy Cuss]

23. I thought that my post was so far over the top that loungers would recognize it as a joke.

Sorry about that. I should know by now that even in DU's Clown College people will try to take a post seriously unless there are proper cues like the ROFL smiley. The headbanger smiley wasn't enough.
:hi:

If anyone wants to see what I really think check out the LBN thread on this topic. In short, there'd be no need for ammonia rinses or the like if the meat weren't processed the way it is and the cattle weren't raised the way they were.

[HopeHoops]

25. Over the top? On this board? LOL!

That reminds me of a scene from "Roxanne". Darryl Hannah (Roxanne) gets locked out of her house naked so she goes to the firehouse for help and Steve Martin (chief) asks if she wants a coat. She says "No, I really like standing naked in the cold". He doesn't bring one. As they're walking back to her house (with her, unfortunately, on the other side of a row of trees), she asks, "Didn't anyone have a coat?"

The chief replies, "You said you didn't want one.

She responds, "I was being ironic."

He laughs and says, "Oh, 'irony'. We don't get that around here. You see, people ski naked while smoking dope so irony isn't real big around here. In fact, I was the last practitioner and I quit because I was tired of getting stared at."

----

You just can't make assumptions about the intentions in a post.

[quakerboy]

3. I just learned that

Cargill is privately held. Which seems odd.

[flvegan]

5. No ammonia in vegan burgers.

:hide:

[Robeson]

6. Word.

[hobbit709]

8. But what is in that processed soy?

[flvegan]

11. Processed or not, still safer and healthier. n/t

[hobbit709]

12. 58+% of all soy is GM.

So you have a better than even chance of Frankenfood.

[flvegan]

13. I eat Amy's burgers, predominantly.

Mostly organic. As for Frankenfood, that's the definition of mass-produced meat.

[hobbit709]

14. Frankenfood refers to the genetic modification part,.

[Kali]

15. and most is grown on huge "factory" monoculture corpo farms

[yewberry]

18. And nearly all of that is grown to feed animals destined to become food.

Factory farm grown GM plants to feed factory farmed animals to feed people.

[Kali]

16. what are you comparing?

farming techniques, nutrition, production techniques? Don't think there is any real measure that has been accepted for the general claim that the whole picture of processed vegan burgers are safer or healthier than anything else lbs for lbs or acre for acre. (although I would tend to agree bulk processed ground meat, especially from multiple sources is pretty damn risky - but even then the stats of illness compared to consumption are pretty remarkable)

[unpossibles]

27. vegan burgers are not safer?

When's the last time someone got mad cow disease or E. Coli from a vegan burger? I mean, come on.

As for healthier, most vegans and vegetarians I know are very adamant about reading labels and understanding what we eat because we have to be. I don't eat very many fake burgers and stuff unless it is the only thing on the menu, which does sometimes happen. As for them being 'processed' or even GM that does not inherently mean they are unhealthy or bad in the least. Almost every crop we grow is processed and "genetically modified" including the feed that your cows and chickens and pigs eat to rather inefficiently feed people, and the animals themselves so... it's kind of a moot argument.

[Kali]

28. when was the last time anyone got "mad cow" from a vegan burger?

c'mon - when was the last time anybody got "mad cow" from anything? Scary as that is, not many people contracted it. But otherwise you ask a good question and it relates to mine - what ARE the stats on contaminated processed vegan products? I couldn't find much on a quick google, although there did seem to have been one "recal" due to an unspecified reason in the NW, that popped up often. I have no idea. It may seem low in part due to the small minority of people who choose that kind of diet. So again, my question was "What is being compared?"

Vegans/vegetarians appear to be healthier mostly because they are often very focused on health and nutrition - if you compared omnivorous eaters that exhibit the same behaviors there are no differences.

my cows eat grass grown on range with sun and rain, something pretty damned efficient compared to you trying to digest it

[unpossibles]

30. well, even if only 10 people died from CJD from beef

that is 10 more than died from CJD from vegan burgers, thus you can still compare them. Furthermore, the produce scares we had recently were all related to contamination from animals (including sometimes people) - where shit in the water got on the spinach, for instance.

I'm sorry but you cannot pretend that America does not have a problem with factory farming and that the likelihood of contamination from meat is higher than from plant matter.

[Kali]

31. it's vCJD

and YOU can compare them but it really isn't a valid comparison scientifically or statistically. Again, do we have any stats on processed vegan food and any types of illness/contamination? I just don't know.

Why do you accuse me of pretending there is no problem with factory farming? Anybody that has half an interest in this topic should know where I stand.

The contamination isn't from meat itself, it is from intestinal contents. e-coli is an intestinal bacteria, even vegans have huge populations of various types. Nature is all about eating and shitting, I don't know why people get so freaked out about cow shit as opposed to say cute kitteh shit but there you go, human perception and prejudice is a strange and illogical phenomenon. Maybe we should just ban shitting by all organisms, 'cause even cute wildlife does it.

Cow shit is a natural substance. How it is handled is the real issue. It can be viewed as a part of the natural cycle of good soil health or it can be seen as a waste by product that has to be controlled and contained or disposed of. I prefer the former and therefore feel that is one very real problem (and there are many) with so-called factory farming.

[Robeson]

17. You're farting in the wind, arguing with the flesh eaters.

[stray cat]

20. Why don't people think plants are alive and worth protecting?

if you really want to avoid killing living things you should only eat chemically created food.

[Robeson]

22. Sorry, but I'm not going to fart in the wind tonight....

...find someone else.

[rebel with a cause]

32. survivers of breast cancer are advised/warned

not to eat soy because it encourages the return of the cancer. It is among the many things I cannot eat due to illnesses so don't take it personal. :eyes:

[stray cat]

21. but in theory there can be e-coli.....

[stray cat]

19. Do you want e-coli in it?

[GOPisEvil]

24. Convenience can be deadly.

If you want ground beef, grind your own. Or have the people in the white coats in the grocery store grind it for you.

And stop eating fast food that uses frozen beef patties.

[TZ]

26. And veggies fertilized with human and animal feces

Are SOOOOOO much better. Lets get it straight here. Food contamination is a HUGE problem in all food, not just beef. Or did you miss the recent issues with lettuce, spinach, tomatoes etc...
And for those of you who say "buy organic". Uh huh. Large "organic" farms can be just as bad..Alot of them do certain tricks to appear to be organic when they are not.
Sadly the only way to be sure is to grow and process your own food which most of us can't do.

[Kali]

29. ain't nothing more organic than dung!

[rebel with a cause]

33. I like buying my fresh meat from a local market

that carries meat products from local farmers. The ground beef is not only cheaper than what is carried by large grocery stores but has absolutely no fat in it. It taste like hamburgers use to taste. Also their chickens are small and lean with normal size breast. I can no longer stand the Tyson Carmen Electra enlarged hormone infused type of chicken breast. Some of the meat/cheese/etc is Amish produced, and I know they are not perfect but I doubt that they use chemicals in their products. Anyway, if I could I would buy all my meat there. My daughters dislike of the store is the only thing that keeps me from doing so.