Amish man found drunk, asleep in moving buggy

[madinmaryland]

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/245976

A slow-moving horse and buggy led to the arrest Sunday night of a Paradise man, who was charged with drunken driving.

Police said Elmer Stoltzfoos Fisher, 22, was found slumped over and asleep in a buggy that was moving slowly in the first block of North Ronks Road.

East Lampeter Township police received a call around 9:05 p.m. Sunday from off-duty Quarryville police Officer Jesse Blank.

Blank was driving a car on North Ronks Road when he pulled up behind the buggy, which Blank said was moving at a walking pace. The horse was straddling the center line as it pulled the buggy.

Sensing a problem, Blank stopped his car. His passenger, Nate Perry, got out and approached the buggy on foot. Stopping the horse, Perry found Fisher slumped over and asleep, police said.

Perry pounded on the buggy door until Fisher woke up.

Police said Fisher showed signs of intoxication, including a strong smell of alcohol on his breath and bloodshot, watery eyes.

Police said they administered a breathalyzer test, which showed Fisher's blood-alcohol content was 0.18 percent. Pennsylvania residents are considered legally intoxicated if their blood-alcohol content is 0.08 or above.

..snip

The dude put the horse on autopilot and it just headed for home!

:D

[auntAgonist]

1. That used to happen periodically

in the area that I lived in for most of my life. Young Mennonite men would head out to the tavern, get drunk and the horses would take them home. Amazing animals horses.

The VERY odd time a child would be left in the buggy and the police or local citizens would intervene and charges would be laid.

I lived in a very densely populated Mennonite area in Woolwich Twshp in Ontario Canada.

aA
kesha

[Xipe Totec]

2. Good luck getting a conviction

Drunken driving laws apply to motor vehicles.

[Ptah]

3. And the horse knows the way home.

What's the danger?

[Xipe Totec]

4. Unless he fed hard cider to the horse, he's scott free

Of course, he'll never live down the embarrasment back in the village.

[Bucky]

17. Yep, when his neighbors see this story on TV, they're gonna tease him forever

But technically speaking the word "to drive" originally (and still) means to direct horses from a vehicle they're hitched to. What we call "driving" is actually operating a machine vehicle, not driving a team.

[Xipe Totec]

29. DUI applies not to driving, but to operating a motor vehicle

Despite the D in DUI.

However, PA is aware of this and systematically removing the word 'motor' from all the 'motor vehicle' definitions so that they apply more generally.


"Also with relevance to PA there is an article: PENNSYLVANIA’S “NEW IMPROVED” IMPLIED CONSENT LAW–NOT JUST FOR DUI OFFENDERS ANYMORE (77 PA Bar Assn. Quarterly 121) that discusses DUI law changes that removed the word “motor” from PA’s implied consent law thus exposing a panopoly of road users to implied consent: “...it is conceivable that a person who operates a skateboard or non-motorized scooter on a highway while in an impaired or intoxicated condition could fall within the meaning of ‘vehicle’.”"

See BUI (Bicycling under the influence)

http://azbikelaw.org/blog/bui-bicycling-under-the-influence/

Why they don't just use public drunkeness laws which are applicable, is beyond me.

[guitar man]

34. Hmmm

Would his Amish neighbors really see the story on TV? :shrug:

[rebel with a cause]

6. I would see a danger of a horse and buggy being in the middle of the road.

if the road was a busy one or a highway where traffic moved faster. If it is just a 'one horse town', then there would be no danger. ;)

[ashling]

38. And this guy had the horse,

so no problem

[Chellee]

15. Because horses don't follow traffic laws.

They don't stop at stop signs, they turn in front of traffic, they will choose to go through your yard if it's quicker than going around, and they absolutely, positively always straddle the center line making it impossible for you to pass.

Amish people don't get drunk all that often, but they do fall asleep... A LOT.

[Xipe Totec]

30. Horses don't stop at signs, even when there's no rider

So who do you charge then, the horse?

[iris27]

22. What's the danger? Really?

A horse moving against traffic (over the center line) at a walking pace isn't a danger to other drivers? The sort of areas where "english" and amish populations mix often have very hilly roads with blind bottoms that you can't see until you're on the top of the hill. The town my husband grew up in has enough problems with drivers trying to get stopped in time when they're doing the 60 speed limit, pop up over a hill and there's a non-drunk Amish guy in a carriage doing 15...no need to add "wrong side of the road" and "no one behind the reins" to the mix!

[LynneSin]

32. I know those roads around Paradise really well - the danger is to other drivers

People go flying on those backroads which tend to be both hilly and curvy. Sober Amish drivers will stay to the side of the road so that cars can easily get around them. According to the article, the horse was in the middle of the road, which could be a danger to other drivers.

[struggle4progress]

10. Pennsylvania's DUI Laws Apply to More Than Just Motor Vehicles (2008)

A Montgomery County, Pennsylvania resident convicted of Driving Under the Influence of Alcohol a few years ago, traded in his motor vehicle for a bicycle; to prevent himself from receiving any future DUI related charges. He never anticipated being charged with a second-offense for Driving Under the Influence, while riding his bicycle ... Pennsylvania statute defines a “vehicle” as “every device in, upon or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway.” Pennsylvania law mandates minimum sentences for DUI and DUI related crimes ... http://www.philadelphiacriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2008/07/pennsylvanias_dui_laws_apply_t.html

[Xipe Totec]

27. I'm not seeing a conviction for second offense here

Just an arrest.

[struggle4progress]

36. ... in Pennsylvania .. a device need not have an engine or motor to be considered a vehicle ...

All that is required is the requisite amount of alcohol consumption and operation of a vehicle on a highway ...
In Pa., bicycles and motorized recliner chairs are vehicles under DUI and other laws
Thursday, November 12, 2009
http://legalcholent.blogspot.com/2009/11/in-pa-bicycles-and-motorized-recliner.html

[struggle4progress]

11. Here's a case from about a year ago:

Pa. horse-and-buggy driver charged with DUI
Posted in News on Thursday, January 1st, 2009 at 11:13 am by Web content assistant editor David Rauch

NEW WILMINGTON, Pa. (AP) — State police say a western Pennsylvania man was drunk when he was driving a horse-and-buggy that collided with a car, killing the horse.

Nineteen-year-old Joseph Byler, of New Wilmington, faces a preliminary hearing Feb. 2 on charges of underage drinking, drunken driving and running a stop sign.

Police say Byler failed to stop causing a crash Sunday in Wilmington Township, about 50 miles north of Pittsburgh on Sunday evening ...

http://blogs.phillyburbs.com/news/bcct/pa-horse-and-buggy-driver-charged-with-dui/

[Xipe Totec]

28. Once again, arrest, not conviction

[EndersDame]

21. My friend almost got a DUI while on a bicycle

[Mopar151]

35. How did you meet "Timmeh"?

He used to work at a place I worked at. Notorious drunk, rode a bike everywhere - no hope of gettin' a license back. The story went that the cops arrested him for DWI on his bicycle 'cus he had fallen down in the middle of the main street - but he was still pedalin'!

[Dr. Strange]

5. I didn't know Romo was Amish.

[Roon]

7. My Grandfather used to head home from square dances like this

when he was a kid. Everyone would get drunk and pass out on the wagon and would just "yee-ha" the horses to take them home.

[pokerfan]

9. My grandfather did that too

Said that he'd usually wake up in front of the barn with an annoyed horse.

[Roon]

44. LOL!! I have spent very little time with horses..but one thing i learned...

they always want to go back home and they know the way!! Even trail horses I have ridden.

[madinmaryland]

45. I was thinking the same thing. Sort of on autopilot!

[applegrove]

8. There was a guy in Nova Scotia several years back who lost his license

due to driving drunk. He would take out his horse and go through the Tim Horton's Coffee and donut drive through. The police once chased him on his horse. I don't know if he was ever drunk on that horse.

[Kali]

43. Galeana, Chihuahua

I used to be a spoiled horsie girl in the big city (my Grandfather brought a horse up for me to keep during the school year) - used to ride him all over - great way to go party when I wasn't supposed to be, used to ride him through the drive through at Jack-in-the-Box.

[applegrove]

48. I think that is hilarious.

[JVS]

12. I can't wait for them to make cars with autopilot like the horses!

[Silver Swan]

13. My Great-grandfather was known to do that.

He would go into town and drink,and would depend on the horse to get him and the buggy home.

This was back in the late 1800's, before cars, so I don't know if there were any drunk driving worries then.

[Randall Flagg]

14. Wow.

The DUI laws are getting stranger and stranger.

I had a friend who was at a bar and decided he had too much to drink so he went to his car, climbed into the back seat and fell asleep.

Later that morning, a cop came and woke him up to arrest him for DUI.

Cost him over $15K and he still lost the case.

[Maine-ah]

18. were his keys in the ignition?

thats how the law works up here.

[Randall Flagg]

19. No. But they were in his possession.

The cop told him that next time he should hide his keys outside of the car. That's all it took over here.

DUI laws have become great revenue generators in some areas.

[FloridaJudy]

26. Same thing happened to a friend of mine

Except she took a nap in the front seat, with the keys in her purse. The cop who arrested her said she'd have been legal if she'd climbed in the back. I know DUI's are damned serious, but come on: since she never actually drove the car, the only person she endangered was herself.

[iris27]

24. Wow, that is asinine.

If someone else had driven him home, he'd still have been in the car with his keys at the time. Sad times when such a thin argument holds legal water.

[TK421]

40. Did the cop look anything like this guy?

if so, its a wonder your friend is still alive!

[Randall Flagg]

49. M-O-O-N That spells Yes.

:)

[Roon]

46. I had a van when I was a kid with a nice fold out bed...

if I had too much to drink I would just pull out the bed and pass out..keys in my pocket...no one ever bothered me.

[Bucky]

16. Isn't that the whole point of having horses?

If he'd only been on saddleback, he could argue that he wasn't technically driving.

[struggle4progress]

25. Ky. Man Gets DUI While On Horseback (2005)

http://www.wlky.com/news/4476223/detail.html

Woman gets DUI — for horseback ride
Alabama resident allegedly used animal to ram a police car at midnight
updated 9:21 p.m. ET April 4, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17953259/

Six-Pack Mountain: Georgia Pair Charged With Horseback DUI
By David Goguen on May 4, 2009 9:00 AM
http://blogs.findlaw.com/legalgrounds/2009/05/six-pack-mountain-georgia-pair-charged-with-horseback-dui.html

Can't happen in Pennsylvania, though:

Pennsylvania v. Noel
Pennsylvania Supreme Court
857 A.2d 1283
September 22, 2004
Summary of Opinion
Defendant Noel was arrested for riding a horse on a public highway while intoxicated. The trial court said that a horse is not a vehicle under the driving while intoxicated statute and that another statute making all vehicle laws applicable to horses except those which by their very nature cannot be applied was unconstitutionally vague. In this opinion, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court agrees with that conclusion — the statute is invalid because it is too vague ...
http://asci.uvm.edu/equine/law/cases/misc/noel.htm

[valerief]

20. Would he get a DUI if he was riding a bike drunk? Walking drunk? Weird. nt

[iris27]

23. If he was on a roadway interfering with the normal traffic patterns because

he was drunk, I would have zero problems with that. And as stated above, people have been given DUIs while biking drunk.

[Xipe Totec]

31. BUI — Bicycling Under the Influence

http://azbikelaw.org/blog/bui-bicycling-under-the-influence

[Iggo]

33. He would in my town.

Either way, he's the vehicle operator (not the horse). He was 'asleep at the wheel' and I hope they throw the fucking book at him.

[valerief]

47. You can't be serious. Oh, of course not. I'm so easy!

:rofl:

[ashling]

37. That Amish cider has a real kick

:kick:

[AngryAmish]

39. my ears are burning

[madinmaryland]

41. Are you ok?? Are you changing your name to "DrunkAmish"

:hi:

[Kali]

42. ...caught this guy dozing a couple years ago in Creel,

then he caught me taking his picture and came over to try and get some money. Gave him a coke instead. Poor old skinny mountain ponies.