I'm an asshole.

[Drunken Irishman]

And the worst part? I don't care, either. How fucked up is that? People have been yelling at me and telling me how horrible I would be for doing it and I'm going to do it. I'm going to be an asshole who does a horrible thing to a good friend and in the end, I don't give a flying fuck if he's hurt or I become a dick because of it. And I don't feel the least built guilty.

How is this possible?

The story...

My really good friend - someone I've known since junior high school - had been hanging out with this chick for a few months. I met her through him and I think hit it off really well. I mean, well enough where when we talk, there are no secrets. I'll be honest, there aren't many women I've been able to be this open with. I don't know, it's strange. Like, I don't feel the pressure of being someone I'm not. I can be me and generally, when I'm around a girl I just met, that isn't something I can do well enough.

Now the problem...

A few days ago, my friend told me he liked her. Fair enough. He wanted to ask her out. Again, fair enough. I wouldn't mind if he asked her out. But I know my friend and he isn't going to do it. He'll talk about maybe possibly doing it - but when it comes to women, he's a wimp.

Since he told me, though, I've continued talking to this girl and it's getting pretty deep. Nothing has been established yet and we're not dating or anything. But I know she likes me and I know if I ask her out on a date, she will say yes.

I also know she has no interest in my friend. I know this because she told me.

And I think I'm going to do it. She's cute. She's fun and if you all remember, I just ended a two year relationship late last year. I want this and need this.

But I've been told by many that I can't do it. I can't do it because my friend likes her too and if I do it, it'll ruin our friendship. Yet, like I said, I know he isn't going to do anything about it and if he does, I know what the answer will be.

So, that's where I stand.

The thing is, I'm not going to hide it from him. If we go out, I'll tell him and tell him he should have acted. But he won't act and why should I be left in limbo because, deep down, he knows what she's already thinking and is too scared to find out fully for himself?

Yeah, I guess I am a dick. An asshole. A shitty friend who thinks with his dick.

But like I said, I need this.

[PaddyBlueEyes]

1. Dude

You need to give him a heads up at least. If she really isnt interested in him, he needs to know that before he wastes his energy pursuing her, and then after you tell him...go for it. But its going to look doubly shitty, if all of a sudden you start showing up with this girl. He will blame you, for her not dating him...

[Drunken Irishman]

2. Thanks.

That's the hard part, though. I mean, how do I tell him I'm going out with the girl he likes and THEN tell him she told me she isn't interested in him?

That's like a double-kick to the crotch. haha

[PaddyBlueEyes]

3. Tell him she isnt interested in him first...

Then at least, you can date her with a clear conscience. Its up to her to tell him herself as well, that way it doesnt look like, you had ulterior motives.

[Drunken Irishman]

4. It is a mess.

I can admit that.

I guess the only way I wash my hands of this without any conflict is if I turn down a date.

But I don't want to do that. Or I at least wait a month or so and see what happens with him. I mean, if he continues to drag his feet, he's got to expect someone will eventually ask her. It's ridiculous not to in my mind.

My friend is weird. He's a good guy, but I hate to say it - he has standards way higher than they need to be. But he's also very naive and if a girl shows even mild interest in him, even if it's just friendly shit, he'll automatically fall in love with her and think she likes him.

But he drags his feet and does nothing about it. Instead, he just tells me over and over he's too scared to do it because it might ruin the friendship. This is the third f'n time in a year he's had a similar chance and I have never had the heart to tell him the girl probably isn't interested in him and just doing what girls do.

So, maybe this is the way to do it. Who knows.

[PaddyBlueEyes]

5. Its not a mess

You want to date a woman, whom you think wants to date you. Your friend likes her, he doesnt own her. She is free to date anyone she pleases, honestly you dont owe him any explaination at all. But being his friend, out of courtesy you may want to give him a heads up. Dont beat yourself up over it...

[Drunken Irishman]

6. Thanks again.

You've given the most sane answer to how I feel about this. I don't want to hurt my friend, but when you hit it off with a girl, you don't really want to pass up that chance, you know? Maybe it'll be a short fling and we'll find out we don't really click. But I'd rather have some fun.

I don't mind being single...but I'd like someone. I know he'd like someone. I think that's where he and I can find a middle ground. He's always telling me how much it sucks to be single and so if that's the case, he can at least understand why I'd want to date someone I am attracted to and someone who is attracted to me.

[PaddyBlueEyes]

7. Good Luck

In the last year, Ive learned a whole lot about love, life and loss. Follow your heart, you might get hurt in the end....but even then, the ride along the way may be worth it...It was for me..

[wysimdnwyg]

43. Your friend sounds a lot like me

Or at least how I used to be before I stopped giving a shit.

First, you should tell him you are interested in her. Tell him you think she has similar feelings about you. It's going to suck for him, but it's better if you tell him BEFORE you ask her out. Give him a day or two to get used to the idea. He doesn't have to like it, and he doesn't have to "give you his blessing" or anything like that, but at least you can give him the chance to understand that it's not about him - it's about you and her. He may even get up the nerve to ask her out himself - and of course get shot down. Then, when you're a little more comfortable with the situation, ask her out. If he still can't accept it, at least you can have a clear conscience that any ill feelings he may harbor are due to his own insecurities and not because you were an asshole.

[Maine-ah]

17. she needs to tell him, not the op.

if he tells his friend and then starts dating the girl, it will definitely look funny. She needs to tell his friend that she's not interested and would like to date the op.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

39. Have her tell him first

be up front with the man and let him know he's not in the running. We can't help who we are attracted and not attracted to. With you, she feels something, for him, nothing. It's a law of nature as much as anything else.
:shrug:

[velvet]

8. Or

Another approach to consider might be asking her to speak to him. If she agrees to a date with you she might be willing to break the news to your mutual friend herself. Just a thought, I'm no expert.

[GoCubsGo]

14. Yep. He needs to hear it from her.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would rather hear from the person in question, rather than hear from someone who is probably going to start dating this person. "I'm not into you" goes down better than "She likes me better than you", doesn't it? Not to mention that hearing it straight from her removes most of notion that you went out of your way to "steal" her from him. Hearing from you just rubs in the rejection, and doing THAT would make you an asshole. Your getting the girl instead of him? That's just life.

On edit: I hadn't read Callalilly's post before I posted. She has some excellent advice about letting your friend know that you are also interested.

[Callalily]

9. Quite a dilemma.

Here's my advice for what it's worth.

Tell your friend that you are interested in this girl, but you know he likes her too. Ask him point blank if he plans on asking her out, and let him know that if he doesn't that you will. Maybe even give him a few weeks to get up the nerve.

Two things can happen; he doesn't ask her out as you suspect and/or he does ask her out and she turns him down, giving you the opportunity to pursue her.

Good luck.

Remember, relationships come and go, but your friends always stick by you.

[cherish44]

10. I kind of agree with Calla's last sentence

I'm assuming a decades old friendship...handle with care. She may be "the one" but it could also be just a fleeting infatuation, you'd hate to fuck up a good long term friendship over it.

[CBGLuthier]

11. I did something similar almost 25 years ago

Our 25th anniversary is in September.

[City of Mills]

12. He's gonna have to get over it.

There's no 'clean' solution to this dilemma, but you're not doing anything wrong, and you don't owe him any explanations...it's not like he was dating the girl. He'll feel hurt, but he'll have to get over it. It's all on him to accept reality.

Now go, seek happiness!

[blueknight]

13. wait a while

if he does ask her, she will decline, and then you can ask her. that way, he had his shot. then at least he cant say you shot him out of the saddle.

p.s. i would wait no more then two weeks, that gives him plenty of time to ask her. if he dont ask her by then, he wasnt serious in the first place

[Brickbat]

16. This is what I was going to say, and I think it's good advice.

Give the guy a chance and a deadline, so he knows you're running up behind him. If he asks her out, she either says no because she doesn't want to go out with him, or she says yes to be nice (in which case, you've learned something about her), or she says yes because she likes him. No matter what, after that, the next step is clear.

[unpossibles]

15. no you're not - they are not dating and she is not interested in him anyway

go for it.

That said, if he were already dating her and then you started trying to get in her pants and get her drunk all the time and she dumped him for you... oh wait, that's my ex. Never mind.

[es350_ibm]

18. You and plenty of others.

[BlueJazz]

19. I would just ask her out. She doesn't care for him...She cares for you...

,,..and you have a little relationship going on with her.

I don't see any problems for you...

Have Fun and good luck!

[Drunken Irishman]

20. Thanks everyone.

Good suggestions. I like the approach of having her tell him because I don't want to think I'm manipulating her or lying to him about her.

Ideally, he'd ask her, she'd say no and I could make my move by next week. But I doubt he will.

[Schema Thing]

21. Jesus Christ that's a lot of drama

Here's the no drama obama way to do it (which also happens to be the non-dickish way to handle it):

Tell your friend "hey, I understand if you want to ask her out, but you should know that she and I have been talking - a lot. We aren't exactly dating yet, but I feel *very* sure she is going to say yes when I ask her out, and I AM going to ask her out. No hard feelings, hopefully?".

[jobycom]

22. Just do it, already, or I'll ask her out.

Call your friend, say "look, I'm seeing whatsername, it's pretty serious, and I hope you aren't too pissed at me." If he hates you for it, he wasn't much of a friend anyway. Your relationship with her is with her, and your friend is just accidentally nearby it. Don't be an asshole to her because of him.

[astral]

23. wait a minute.

He told you he likes her. He never told her he likes her. You told her he likes her; she told you she doesn't like him. She never told him she doesn't like him.

If you're gonna ask her out, ask her out. If you see him first, tell you you're going to ask her out. If you see him after, tell him you went on a date with her.

Leave he he said / she said stuff alone, and I suggest you don't tell him that you told her he likes her. Let him have his dignity and decide for himself whether to tell her he likes her or not.

[Drunken Irishman]

25. Oh I never told her he likes him.

We just discussed him and it was pretty blatant she didn't like him like him.

But in the same instance, it's very clear she likes me.

[insanity]

24. I'd do the same thing

and I've done the same thing. I've also had the same thing done to me.

If he is your friend talk to him like your friend. Be straight about it, tell him you like her and you think she likes you. I'd much rather someone was on the level with me. He might be a bit bummed out about it, but if he is your friend he'll understand.

We all think with our dicks.

[Drunken Irishman]

26. UPDATE:

It didn't go well. Not well at all.

We decided it'd be best she told him. We did it in a very subtle manner and it backfired.

:/

[noamnety]

27. I'm sure you did fine.

So much of "guy code" is based on some really offensive underlying patriarchal crap regarding women as chattel. In this case the presumption is that by simply stating he wants to screw her, he's got ownership rights over her. That attitude is flat out disrespectful of women.

If you want/wanted/did ask her out, that's between you and her.

I like what my husband says about these situations: "They'll get over it. Or they won't." I love the simplicity in that, they have two choices of how they can handle their reaction to a situation, but either way, that's what they own - their reaction, not the rights to control other people.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. Thanks.

It was ridiculous. It wasn't even about dating.

We eased into it. She told him that I might like her and he ended the conversation with a threat. If it were true, our friendship would be over.

Just over the hint that I may have liked her.

[WildEyedLiberal]

30. I definitely think this says more about your friend being an asshole than you

Noamnety is 100% correct about the blatant disrespect for women expressed in the notion that a guy can "call dibs" on a woman. So frakkin' what if your friend said he was into her? She's not into him, so that's that. That your friend would regard you and she pursuing a mutually desired relationship because he "called dibs" on her - even though she isn't interested - as an insult and react in an apparently violent or irrational manner says that maybe you're better off spending less time with this friend.

[Drunken Irishman]

34. I agree.

I don't get it. He told me he liked her and still hasn't even made a move. It's been basically a week since I made the first post and she is oblivious to him liking her (well until now...now it's obvious).

It makes no sense to me. He's getting upset over a girl he knows he can't get and won't even try to get. I can't help if she and I are attracted to each other. Now I could totally see if he asked her out first and she said yes and then I did the same and she canceled their date because of it. But that didn't happen.

Meh

[noamnety]

31. That sounds very not-cool.

He threatened her? Threatened you through her?

Not sure why I'm asking, it's not like either is acceptable. Hopefully that was a hot-headed instant knee-jerk reaction of just words. I guess I'd be more likely to accept a threat at myself in the heat of a moment than one aimed at another person I cared about.

Sorry you are going through this, I really don't think you've done anything wrong, and it sounds like you were trying to make it as painless for him as possible.

[Drunken Irishman]

35. Yes. He threatened me through her.

She mentioned that she thought I might like her. He replied that there would be a problem with that and he'd have to end our friendship if true.

I'm probably going to talk to him when I get home tonight, but I don't know what to say. If I should just lie and say I'm not into her into her or tell him the truth knowing he'll freak.

[WildEyedLiberal]

38. Tell him the truth.

If he's really serious about ending your friendship because you like a girl that he has an unrequited crush on, then he's a really flaky and shallow friend and you're better off without someone that volatile in your life. And you shouldn't let his petty jealousy keep you from doing something that you AND this girl both want to do.

[noamnety]

40. Is he the sort of person

that needs a cool down period? Would he benefit from a night to sleep on it before you talk to him? Or you think it's better to not have it hanging over you all the extra day?

I wouldn't lie about it, but if it was a friendship I wanted to salvage, I wouldn't argue the merits of a case in the talking, I'd let him talk and listen, without agreeing to any demands on his part.

[Chan790]

59. See...

not that it matters because the situation is the same, but she screwed you over too. The appropriate tact was for her to tell him that she liked you (not you liked her), a fact that would have made her feelings for you clear and her feelings for him clear and not made you look like you were trying to get with the woman he expressed an interest in to you, behind his back...she pushed all the blame off onto you and made you the asshole in this situation in re: your friend so she could avoid having to be the "bad guy".

Lose both of them. Now. Best clearest advice I can give you. Walk away. You want no part of either one of them.

Edit: I'm saying that the blame for the end of your friendship can be 50% betwixt them...they're both assholes you're better off without.

[City of Mills]

32. Like I said, he's gonna have to get over it.

I had a feeling it might end like this, but you know what? It wasn't gonna happen for him, so why should you and the miss be unhappy...sure the situation sucks but ultimately it played out the way you needed it to. He'll feel much better when he finds another girl to fawn over (and not approach :eyes:)

You did nothing wrong, and unfortunately there wasn't going to be a smooth way out of this. Worry about yourself! :)

[Drunken Irishman]

36. Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

He'll fawn over her for a few weeks and move on. He does that with a ton of girls.

My only problem is that she doesn't want to hurt him. She better not back out of this because of something he said. :/

[City of Mills]

37. I'd talk it over with her

If you haven't already, she knows you didn't try some assholish underhanded swipe of 'his girl'. I'm sure girls know how it goes when a couple guys like her at once...tell her "hey, I knew he liked you, and stepped back out of respect, but he didn't step up and it's not fair to suppress how I feel for you just because he happens to have feelings for you too." And emphasize to her that he has a habit of becoming infatuated with girls but not acting on his feelings...I have a feeling she understands.

I say this as the guy who's been in your friend's position before...as you get older, you learn from your mistakes and you don't let a good thing pass you by because you're afraid of rejection. Put yourself out there, if you get rejected, you move on. If not, well there you go. Your friend needs to learn this!

[TK421]

29. Sacrificing a friendship over this matter, I'm not sure what you should do

if it were me, I would just drop the whole thing....but that's just me dude

I don't think you're a dick..at least you're looking for answers on it

[Callalily]

33. Sorry to hear that

the situation did not go well. It appears that you and your female friend were very sensitive and forthcoming, so you really don't have to feel bad, although I think you do.

Hopefully, after your guy friend thinks this through, he'll realize how ridiculous he's being. And if not, well . . . his choice.

[pscot]

41. Two points

Alls fair in love and street fighting

If he threatened her or you over this, he's the one who's the asshole

[spiritual_gunfighter]

42. Are you in junior high? n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

46. I fucking feel like it. :(

[graywarrior]

44. Early bird and all that

She likes you. Go for it.

[Evoman]

45. God, that shit is annoying. I hate people who do that shit past high school.

I mean, okay...I get it if your nervous to ask someone out. And I understand, especially if its because of a mental disorder, if you can't express your feelings or take the dive.

But fuck....wimp boy doesn't fucking own her. Get off your ass or lose. I have friends like yours, and sometimes they can be so pathethic it's infuriating. On the other hand, I have buddies who have asked out girls that I've liked, but hadn't made a move on. And you know what? It sucks, but it's my fault for being a tool.

Here's what you do...take a picture of you guys doing it (with her permission), then send it too him with a not that says "How do you like them apples". Then an arrow pointing at yourself saying "NOT YOU!"

[Blue-Jay]

47. Too tired to read the entire OP...

But I'll take your word for it, asshole.

[MilesColtrane]

48. Man Law is clear on this.

Date her.

Don't worry about your friend's feelings.

[Drunken Irishman]

49. Well the friend found out tonight.

Not sure how he'll take it.

We'll see. This could get interesting.

[AllenVanAllen]

50. You're the only one

Who's responsible for your own happiness. Your buddy is gonna' have to deal with it.
Whatever happens: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tylH849tcc0

[lazarus]

51. He'll get over it

Or he won't. It's his problem, not yours. And he shouldn't have an issue with it. It's not like they were married and having problems and she came to you for a shoulder to cry on and you seduced her. Wait, that sounds familiar....

[Skittles]

52. why can't you just talk to this guy?

you want I should kick your ass, DI?

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Drunken Irishman]

60. Hm...I don't know what I said that got deleted. I must've been drunk.

[yawnmaster]

53. such drama.

gaak

[Monk06]

55. By the time either one of you asks her out she'll be married with kids

:rofl:

[Drunken Irishman]

61. OH we already have been out.

And made out. ha

[datasuspect]

56. it's a tough business and only the strong survive

do you think bill gates would be where he is if asked gently for permission to license DOS?

hell motherfuckin no, he straight up gangstered that shit.

fly like an eagle or you'll be peckin dirt with a bunch of turkeys.

[lunatica]

57. Your friend will understand and continue being your friend

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill

[madmom]

58. I had a similar situation, only with two women and one guy. I was one of the women,

MR madmom was the guy. Been married 36 years next month. Be true to yourself, things will work out. GOOD LUCK!