Can I have postpartum depression after adopting a puppy?

[LaraMN]

I have never had a dog, unless you count the one year I lived with my parents before graduation, when they owned a beagle.

So we decided after much consideration to get a puppy recently. He(Skippy)is a six-month-old yellow lab and *something*- we think pit- mix. We adopted him from the animal shelter. We should have a trip in to meet his new vet soon.

Oh. my. God. It is truly like having a baby in the house again. I am really trying to be a good dog mom, but I almost feel depressed by how much effort he demands.

He cries incessantly while I'm trying to do work. I take him out every hour or two to go to pee. I take breaks from work periodically to spend some time playing with him, additionally, but he still cries constantly. He jumps ALL over JackMN and nips at him like crazy, to the point that Jack is spending a lot of time shutting himself in rooms the dog can't get into to avoid him.

A big problem we're having involves teaching Jack to avoid getting Skippy riled up. He doesn't understand. Skippy is also CLEARLY trying to assert dominance over Jack (he tries to hump him, constantly). I have tried SO hard to help Jack assert dominance, but he is terrified of confronting the dog's behavior- even with me helping him- and it's just not happening.

Ugh. I know we have to get the dog trained properly, particularly in regard to nipping/biting and recognizing his "pack status", but it's exhausting trying to get him to stop behaving inappropriately toward Jack (and vice-versa).

I've been reading up on dog training, but I totally feel like I'm getting nowhere, and it's a full-time occupation trying to entertain and train the dog.

Any advice from those with more wisdom on dog training and behavior?

Ugh.

[MrsMatt]

1. No advice on dogs here (I'm a cat person)

but you might consider cross posting in the Pets group. Lots of dog owners there.

[LaraMN]

7. The pets group! Duh!

I forgot we had that! See what a novice I am...

[The Midway Rebel]

2. Get thee a nice dog crate and a good dog training book.

By the time your puppy is three years old, everything will be fine.

[LaraMN]

8. We did get a crate right away.

Skippy is REALLY good about being in there at night, but I feel bad crating him during the day unless we're gone.

[HopeHoops]

3. Okay, a few things here.

1) incessantly whining: Try to keep his "out time" on a regular schedule. They learn to "cry wolf" pretty quickly so they can get some romp around and not do anything time. You'll come to recognize the "I REALLY HAVE TO SHIT AND PEE" noise. Beware of the "oops" factor though. If you always let him out every time he has an accident, it is possible that he'll use that as a tool.

2)Jack: intervene sternly - "You behave with Jack/Dad/Papa!" He'll catch on eventually. Jack needs to be assertive as well.

3) nipping: Grab his lower jaw with your hand as far back in his mouth as you can and don't let go. Look him straight in the eyes and growl. He can't bite if you're far enough back in his mouth and it is a seriously uncomfortable situation. The growling asserts your alpha status. Our border collie drew blood a few times when I did this. She was a puppy and had razor blades for teeth. She didn't try to draw blood and it didn't really hurt, but those things are sharp!

4) entertaining: They have to learn that life isn't a Chuck E. Cheese ball tank and climber. They get over the rejection of "GO LIE THE FUCK DOWN!" pretty quickly - like the next time you call them over for pets. You're God to the dog so don't be afraid to act like it.

5) on another note: Physical punishment (smacks in particular) are counter-productive. All they really teach a dog is how to be hand shy. The most effective punishment is timeout. Put the dog in a bathroom, state "you're in timeout" and reiterate the reason ("you don't chew on furniture"), and shut the door. Set a timer and let the dog out when it goes off. Five minutes is FOREVER for a puppy. The ONLY exception for the no-smack rule should be life-threatening safety issues like not stopping when he runs toward/into the street. It gets their attention and is directly associated with the location.

6) most useful command: "Sit". If the dog is programmed to stop and sit whenever you yell that, you'll be amazed at how many situations that will come in handy for over the years. Ours will drop to their butts immediately even if there's another dog or a kid in another yard is throwing a ball they want to play with. That's the best command you can teach them.

[LaraMN]

11. Thank you!

This is all helpful and makes sense to me. I haven't tried time-outs much, yet. I may give that a go. He is catching on well to "sit", at least.

[HopeHoops]

15. Dog training books are fine, but common sense is all you need.

In many ways, the training is almost identical to that which we do with human children. If you treat them like a stupid fucking dog, they'll become stupid fucking dogs - both dogs and humans. I guess that explains the teabaggers.

Anyway, good luck. Dogs are wonderful creatures. We've got two (border collie and sheltie) along with three cats, a rabbit, a minnow, and a shitload of hermit crabs. I don't even WANT to know what might be living in the basement, but we have cats to handle that.

[plcdude]

4. Dog Whisperer

is actually a good show in that he emphasizes the trainers attitudes and emotions as key to the dogs progress.

[LaraMN]

12. I haven't looked at that.

I'll have to check it out. Thanks! Yesterday I cried in front of the dog :P

[caitxrawks]

5. it's possible.

I felt some of the same feelings when I got my dog Lance. He lives with my mom now, but he was my puppy for a few years. He didn't sleep at night. He would just scratch and paw in his cage until I finally got annoyed and let him out into my room. Then he peed and ate the carpet. I was just like aughhh! I was really overwhelmed with everything it took to raise him. Eventually he snapped into a perfect dog out of nowhere. He's also a lab/pit mix. I couldn't ask for a better dog, he's almost human in his mannerisms. He's HUGE though, he weighs upwards of 70 pounds but he thinks he's a tiny lap dog. It's hilarious.

I think the shock of going from one lifestyle to another can cause bluesy feelings. I had horrible depression after I had my daughter. I was suicidal for awhile until I checked myself into the hospital and got help. I was just really overwhelmed with the transition of it just being me to caring for a little baby 24/7.

[LaraMN]

10. Thanks for the empathy!

It's good to know things got a lot easier. Skippy also seems to want to be a lap dog. I'm already borderline mortified that I seem to have lost the battle to keep him off the couch, with other family members. He's little now, but one day he'll be way too big to be sitting on the couch in peoples' laps.

[Brickbat]

6. I have to say one thing about what you wrote.

I totally know what you're talking about when you say you have to teach your husband how to not get the puppy riled up. OMG. When we adopted our dogs, the one had a big submission peeing problem with men. I think he was abused in his previous life or at least had a bad experience with a dominant man, which Mr. Brickbat is (tall, confident). The dog would pee when Mr. Brickbat would make eye contact with him, which would piss Mr. Brickbat off, and he'd react totally incorrectly to the dog peeing. It drove me up the wall because I was literally having to train TWO beings (well, three, if you count the second dog) how to act around each other, instead of assuming the human would know what to do. So good luck with that.

If Jack doesn't assert dominance, you'll have to. Our dogs look to me as the alpha because I am home all day with them and I am in charge of them -- I am the one to feed them, walk them and oversee discipline when they're with us. (All of which sucks; it wasn't my idea to get dogs! :eyes:)

He's going to have to learn sometime that crying gets him nowhere. I second the crate idea; we got them for our dogs and they love them.

[LaraMN]

13. Jack isn't my husband,

he's our son, who's six and has Down Syndrome. He looooves dogs, but he's really been exposed to well-mannered older dogs, not puppies, so this has been a serious challenge.

[Brickbat]

16. OH! Sorry for the confusion -- I've read your posts before, and I did know that but obviously had

forgotten. I can see how that's a challenge.

ETA: While I tried to make sure my kids were assertive with the dogs when we first got them, I also tried to make it clear to the dogs that I was the Mama Bitch and any time they tried to bring it with my pups, they would hear from me. It's hard to teach kids to be assertive to dogs who are as big as they are (which ours are), so if the kids weren't comfortable giving the dog a knee to make it back off, I didn't hesitate to step in. But I know, that's one more thing and it's a pain.

We never adopt puppies; I refused to deal with training a puppy.

[LaraMN]

17. No problem!

That made me chuckle!

[Brickbat]

18. Hee!

I updated my apology, too, with some more info about kids and dogs.

[mnhtnbb]

20. I did the puppy thing twice and after the second time that was it. I will only

adopt 2-3 year old dogs now. Our most recent dog, adopted a month ago, is 2-3, and while she
could benefit from some obedience training (heel, come, sit)she is very gentle, good-natured
and calm. No problem with house training (she'd been crate trained by the rescue foster family)
and it turns out I only have to take her out to pee every 6-8 hours.

Hang in there. You may want to get some professional help to guide you with training.

[LibertyLover]

9. 6 months to about a year (longer for some breeds) are adolescence for a puppy - think

teenager, think brat. Definitely get a crate and crate train. It will help tremendously. Some breeds you need to speak canine to loudly - our Siberian Husky was 10 or 11 months when we adopted him from a rescue group. The first day in the house he started to challenge us for dominance. My husband took him and held him against the floor - no hitting, no swatting, just held him and told him to be good. He had to do it a few times but the dog stopped challenging him. Then he started it with me. I'm a softy - I kept telling him no, which didn't work. So after a few days, I did the same thing - just held him down and told him to be good. He's 11 years old now, slowing down but still going strong. We wouldn't not have him for the world. After we lost the house to foreclosure, finding a place to rent that would let us take all the dogs was tough and we are renting a place that is little better than a hovel, but at least we have all 3 dogs with us.

[LaraMN]

14. I did the holding-down thing with him when he was nipping at me

and he seems to realize I'm the boss. I have NO problem with being strict- I'm not much of a pushover/softie, and I can foresee the nightmare that will befall us if he isn't trained properly. Trying to get my two youngest kids to be assertive has been a problem. Especially Jack, who's just become scared of the dog, who is nearly as big as he is.

[LynneSin]

19. Good luck with your dog - you'll make it fine!

But honestly, this is why I only adopt adults (well I own cats but I have dealt with a kitten before).

I have no patiences for all the training, and bad behavior that puppies & kitties do. Both of my cats were adults and knew what to do when they got home. It's been a good 6 years.

[ceile]

21. Socialization with older dogs will help

If you have friends with older dogs try to set up play dates. Corrective behavior often comes from older dogs who won't take his shit. My female german shep. mix helped to train my neighbors puppies simply by letting them know they were the bottom of the pack. This was enforced in two places - at home with "mom" and with my dog at play time. They learned pretty quick. Just an idea....

[elehhhhna]

22. If he's nipping at Jack you must get this dog to a training class this weekend

& bring Jack along. Please.

[elehhhhna]

23. If he's nipping at Jack you must get this dog to a training class this weekend

& bring Jack along. Please.

[elehhhhna]

24. If he's nipping at Jack you must get this dog to a training class this weekend

& bring Jack along. Please.

[jeniflower]

25. update?

Sounds stupid, but I Just got my puppy 2 days ago, and I'm feeling so overwhelmed. I am a grad student living by myself and thought getting a puppy would be just right. I have friends here but my family is far far away and I decided to get a pup to make me feel better. My family dog at home (far far away) is 15 and I've had him my whole life. Now all I do is feel upset bc this pup cries all the time!

How has your pup been this last week? Anyone else see where I'm coming from?

[LynzM]

26. Hugs to you, Lara

I can imagine that situation being *very* exhausting. We just got another dog, as well, and I'm struggling with some of the same.

As soon as his teeth touch any part of your or Jack's body, you say "no" very sternly, and stop whatever playing or attention is being given. Being ignored is a punishment, of an effective sort. I realize that might be challenging (impossible?) to get Jack to follow that rule, though.

Love and hugs to you, and hang in there. FLVegan is a really good dog-knowledge source around here, too. :)

[Pharlo]

27. Word of caution:

I noticed several previous posters say they had border collies or border collie mixes followed by 'Oh, it's real easy to train a dog to ...'

I have had border collie mixes and I have had non-border collie mixes. There is a WORLD of difference in the time it takes to train the two. When dealing with intelligence and learning, the border collie / border collie mix is on a level above the others. Even when the other dogs are intelligent, they do not tend to catch on as quickly as a border collie. So while these people are telling you 'Oh, it's REAL easy!' and it seems to be taking you a while longer and you start wondering "What am I doing wrong?", give the pup some more time. There is a probability you're doing nothing wrong. Puppies, like children, all learn at a different speed. And, most border collies are in the advanced classes.

As for post puppy depression. I've never had it, but I've had a lot of puppies over the years, so I know what to expect. If you're not prepared for it, the whole need to 'puppy proof the house' becomes apparent only after an episode or two. As one poster mentioned, having an older dog around is such an advantage. Essentially, they do half the work in socializing a pup. They also help keep the new puppy occupied. Based upon my experience with dogs, the first year is the worst. After about a year and a half, they don't tear things up as much. After two, it still happens, but VERY rarely. After three years, well, things are so orderly and quiet, it's time to get a new puppy. And, the cycle begins again.