Some folks just should not be in the military

[Taverner]

This is my biggest argument against the draft.

I should never have to serve, trust me. I suck at following orders.

I talk back - and I would even if they punched me in the stomach a few times. Point that gun at my head, different story, but then again, that's a fucking gun.

But I think about stories of some contemporary visionaries and the military.

Jerry Garcia was drafted. He went through Basic Training, and passed. Then when going into his specialty, Pfc Jerry Garcia lost a tank. Yep, a TANK. Those big things. He lost one and they never found it.

He went on to redefine the guitar as an instrument. He went on to redefine a band as entertainment. He went on to redefine damn near everything about music known at the time. Phil Lesh, graduate of Classical conservatories, knew this guy was a much better anchor than any conservatory.

Did I mention he went on to redefine the standard business model in the music business?

Jimi Hendrix, same generation, went into the military where he was constantly harassed. He was such an 'odd man out' with his guitar that his Basic Training group stole his guitar to fuck with him, and it almost drove him to a mental breakdown. Stories differ on how he got out of the military - but once he got out, in his short years after - he went on to well,

Come on, he was JIMI fucking HENDRIX!!!!!!

What more do I need to say?

[Aristus]

1. How the hell did Jerry Garcia lose a tank?

I know tanks, man. And it's awfully hard to lose one. How did he do it? If the story got out, someone must have details...

[Taverner]

2. I have no idea, having (1) never been in the military and (2) never having dealt with tanks

But the question does boggle the mind....


It was in one of the biographies I read about him

[HopeHoops]

3. "Wow, man, it was like here a minute or go. Weird."

:hippie:

[SoxFan]

5. I'm gonna call bullshit on this story

Tanks can't maneuver deep in the woods. In a training environment, they're either going to be either on a tank trail or a relatively open field. It's not possible to drop one off in a hidden grove.

Also, the military is anal retentive (and rightly so) about keeping track of equipment. I had a guy under my command who let a then-cutting edge GPS system fall out of his Humvee. After I damn near killed him on the spot, we sent a full section out to retrace his route (we found it after about 5 minutes). If a junior officer reacts that way about a Plugger system, imagine how a batallion or squadron commander would handle a missing tank.

[Taverner]

7. It could have been Jerry exaggerating a little

He may have just left his tank out in the field and walked home...also a career limiting move

[Swede]

8. He'd been ok in the Russian army,however.

200 tanks found

-link

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/7338097/200-Russian-tanks-found-abandoned-in-forest.html

[pokerfan]

10. A T34 was found in a lake after fifty years

http://englishrussia.com/?p=299

[kimi]

16. My husband once was part of a DODIG group

who did an audit on such things. A tank has been known to go missing. So, it is possible.

[MiddleFingerMom]

17. We had what were supposed to be annual...

.
... but because of budgeting/staffing restraints usually turned out
to be bi-annual IG inspections (Inspector General). Just prior to
the big one I endured overseas, a HUGE convoy of trucks took excess
equipment -- including VEHICLES -- to a safe "hiding" place...stuff
that was off-the-books, etc. that would have had to have been turned
in had it been noticed.
.
That... or budgets might have been slashed.
.
AND... this was Vietnam-era. Look at how much equipment and material
was simply abandoned in place without any kind of tallying whatsoever.
.
Methinks the auditing process, both peacetime and in areas of conflict,
was... let's say a LEETLE lax -- lax enough for a tank to vanish without
trace or comment.
.
Makes you feel safe, innit?
.
.
Just remembered... when I and the three other 'cruits arrived at our
final destination in Nurnberg, it was about 3 AM and about half our unit
was leaving for the field in a confused and confusing "surprise" training
exercise.
.
They assigned us to a first-floor room and promptly "lost" all four of US
for a whole week.
.
We waited for them in our room all day for that whole week -- not leaving
to go downtown 'til after close of business. And we woulda said something
if we had known they had forgotten about us.
.
Honest.
.

[kimi]

18. Oh, I believes ya

cuz there was a lot scarier stuff that went missing in the very same audit. It was all on the record - had to be. But not paid much attention to, which completely amazed me, considering that it involved stuff that would scare the s*&t out of any normal human bean.

[conscious evolution]

4. Hunter S Thompson

got out of the Air Farce by refusing a security clearance.He said he was a security risk and not to be trusted.They threw him out.
Then he went to Vegas and proved himself correct.

[mulsh]

6. One of my grandfathers kicked a Lt out of 2nd floor window because

the guy called him a "dumb Mick" on his first day in boot camp. He got 2 months in jail but ended up a Sergeant. My father crashed a Training plane in front of 2 admirals and his commander, got transfered to the sub corps where he did all sorts of pranks eventually as punishment he had duty on SF bay testing radar and sonar systems and "working on his tan." with genes like those it's a good thing they ended the draft when I was a junior in High School.

[MiddleFingerMom]

9. I have this friend...

.
I have this friend who was in the Army during the early 70's or so -- during
the time when they started random urinalyses for drugs without sufficient
cause to do so "legally". Random pee tests were NOT done on any kind of large
scale in the civilian population because it was still considered unconstitutional.
.
My friend and many others were furious and would gripe loud and long about it
being a violation of the Constitution -- the very document in defense of which
they were expected to give up their lives.
.
This is no shit. My friend says the standard response (back then) was (and pay
close attention here), "Of COURSE it's against the Constitution, but you're in
the military and have -- for security reasons -- given up some of your sacred
Constitutional rights."
.
OK... maybe they didn't use the word "sacred".
.
Was it Reagan who volunteered to be tested to show the "universality" of the
process? My friend's post commander did much the same thing much earlier in
history -- volunteering to have his urine tested for drugs to show (at least
symbolically) that EVERYMAN was subject to testing. This was almost certainly
a man who had never touched "drugs" in his life. Even so, the test was
SCHEDULED for a week away -- advance notice that the troops did not enjoy.
.
Back to my friend.
.
My friend was in charge of collecting all the urinalyses from the different units
on post -- sorting, labeling, and packaging them for delivery to the test lab.
People wondered, and sometimes even asked him how, given his feelings and, um...
proclivities... how he could be a part of that circus.
.
His stock answer would be another question: Who would you RATHER have involved?
.
The commander's urine sample was hand-delivered to my friend by the commander's
aide.
.
A friend of my friend came in about the same time and told him that he had been
partying over the past weekend and was nabbed for a random drug test on that very
day -- and that he was almost sure to fail. Could my friend, like... you know... help
him out?
.
COULD MY FRIEND HELP HIM OUT?!?!?!?
.
My friend switched the "hot pee" with the "high & mighty pee" (at least, you know...
that's what he TOLD me!)
.
A week or so later, am investigative tsunami swept over the base after the commander's
urine turned up positive for methamphetamines. They questioned and checked on anybody
and everybody with the SLIGHTEST involvement or proximity to urine testing. It came up
a giant goose egg. No one was ever charged. The results of the commander's test were
disappeared -- and nothing was ever said or offered again by him about the "universality"
of the process.
.
My friend was terrified. And very, VERY proud.
.
I imagine my friend is STILL extremely proud of the chance and the stance that he took.
And probably still very cautious about admitting any involvement. It MAY still be the
most righteously revolutionary and "seditious" act he has ever committed.
.
MAYBE my friend shouldn't have been in the military.
.
But...
.
MAYBE he was in JUST the right place at JUST the right time.
.
.
.
I wonder how he's doing.
.

[Taverner]

11. MFM you may have a point there

Kinda my point on having kids - who would you rather raise the next generation of Americans? Me, or Bristol Palin?

But then again, who would have played the Star Spangled Banner at Woodstock?

[av8rdave]

13. The drug testing took place during nearly all my years of active duty

When I was in your boss or a hospital rep had to watch you produce the sample. Talk about performance anxiety!

We are also subject to testing now in the airline business. No probable cause. You are expected to produce on demand. Positive test? NO due process. You are fired and your career is over. Period.

[Taverner]

15. And yes, this is a fucked up policy

[Rambis]

12. "Son there ain't no draft no more" there was one?

[Orsino]

14. That's why we have a navy.

(Just kidding, past, present and future sailors--this old soldier secretly salutes you as he disses you.)