And the Avatar-hating movie snobs start the pile-on.

[Odin2005]

:banghead:

[S_E_Fudd]

1. Yep it is starting already....

Very predictable!

[Lyric]

2. I don't hate Avatar.

I just loathe James Cameron as a person. I actually feel rather sad about the movie. It's a shame that a non-Tolkien fantasy can't ever seem to win the Big Awards.

[Withywindle]

7. That bugs me too, the fantasy thing.

At least this year they acknowledged horror as a red-headed stepchild.

Even when Return of the King won, I think everyone knew that all the awards were really for the entire trilogy, which was such a gigantic, impossibly huge achievement. So I guess fantasy CAN win once in a blue moon--as long as it busts its ass three times as hard as everything else.

I really didn't think Avatar was all that, though. I didn't hate it. Had a good message and sure was amazing to look at. But it really wasn't that well-written or well-acted, and certainly not very original storywise. Wanna see the theme done wwaayyyy better in a fantasy movie? Miyazaki's "Princess Mononoke." Yeah, it's anime, but so what? That's one I would have been happy to see sweep something in its time, even though it's got a double-whammy of genre prejudice.

[tigereye]

87. great comments, as usual, withy

[Enrique]

3. and the Avatar-loving philistines are drowning their sorrows

in some domestic beverage I'm sure. ;-)

[Odin2005]

4. Hey, I resemble that remark!

:rofl:

[pokerfan]

5. What?

Did it win best animated film?

:hide:

[Odin2005]

6. No, it should have, but some stupid war movie won instead.

[Bicoastal]

58. Which you saw, right?

[jobycom]

8. Yeah, hard to understand some people.

They live for what they hate instead of what they love. :shrug:

[fishwax]

9. not everyone who disliked Avatar is a snob

:shrug:

[Richard Steele]

74. I'm certainly not a snob- I loved "Aliens" and "Total Recall"...

"Avatar" was just a big pile of pretentious, pandering CRAP attempting
to disguise itself as a "film" with 500 Million dollars
worth of CGI.

Unwatchable dreck.

[Zomby Woof]

10. Yep

I don't mind being called a movie snob. I have a brain and good taste, and I am not going to be falsely modest about it.

[TCJ70]

11. I enjoyed Avatar...just didn't think it was a best movie contender.

Technical achievements? You bet! Storyline wise? Not so much.

[JCMach1]

14. Wow! Have you actually looked at a list of winners over the years?

Many haven't stood the test of time at all.

[realisticphish]

20. +1

This is how I felt about it as well. Visually stunning, but pretty cliched otherwise

[Alexander]

12. Ah yes, anyone who thought the writing and acting was sub-par in Avatar is a snob.

I guess standards for movies really have fallen.

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Basic DU Rule

If you don't like something that's popular, you're a snob.
If you argue for quality, you're a snob.
If you can articulate the criteria by which you judge cultural expression, you're a snob.
If you judge cultural expression at all, you're a snob.
If you seek out different forms of cultural expression, and understand how they work, you're a snob.

Moreover, you'll be called a snob by people who read Joseph Campbell and basically think it explains everything.

Please keep up.

;-)

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. If I could add...

If you judge what others enjoy based on your own opinion of what is enjoyable and what isn't (and you think you can justify it), you're a snob.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. This is why any statement on quality is immediately labeled snobbish

Because people "enjoy" something, and if they "enjoy" something, and you make an argument about quality (i.e., an evaluative argument), it suddenly appears as an affront to the person who "enjoyed" it (through some fairly contorted logic, I might add).

This is one of the saddest states of affairs there is, and it has everything to do with the way advertising has asked us to identify personally with those things we buy (whether restaurant food or movie tickets). It leads to the complete collapse of the ability to evaluate in any but the most inscrutable personal terms ("Well, I liked it!").

[blueamy66]

31. If you went to a private HS

you're a snob

I haven't seen Avatar or Hurt Locker...but plan to see them both.

[Dr. Strange]

45. Both?

Snob.

[Orrex]

63. Nice post, snob.

And you play right into Campbell's snob archetype, first seen in The Epic of Gilgamesh.

[Dr. Strange]

72. Campbell was a snob.

His hero archetype was derivative of Jung.
Oh, and Jung was a snob too.

[tigereye]

88. huh? Assuming sarcasm here...

Do people really think Campbell stole his study of historical lore/ analyses from Jung?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

68. Speaking of high school...

If you liked the valedictorian over the most popular kid in school, then you're a slob.

[JCMach1]

15. While not as bad as the Grammies, the Oscars have a long track record of getting it wrong!

Just take a quick look at the list:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture

[rockymountaindem]

16. I don't think I saw any of the other movies that were nominated, but I knew Avatar had to lose

That movie sucked on ice. After one hour I had a headache and was wondering when the hell it was going to be over. Little did I know it would be another 90 minutes :eyes:

Sorry for the pile on, but you're living on the edge with that OP ;)

[elocs]

22. Even if Avatar does suck on ice, Cameron is laughing all the way to the bank.

He got your money, didn't he. :rofl:

[Alexander]

47. Is that how we measure movie quality these days?

He didn't get my money. I saw it for free.

Thankfully.

[elocs]

54. Well, I thought District 9 sucked and I saw that for free also.

Thankfully.

The thing is, I get to measure movie quality for me and you get to do the same for yourself. Like food, there is undoubtedly some that we might hate but others may think it is the food of the gods.

People decide what movies are good by buying tickets to see them. If Avatar was so bad it would have sunk like a rock, but it stayed on top for weeks. Some movies that deserve Oscar wins do not get them and others that might not, do. Such is life.

[Alexander]

55. Ah, but District 9 was far superior in the writing and acting departments.

If you can tell me with a straight face that Avatar had good writing, acting and multi-dimensional characters, I'll be impressed.

"The thing is, I get to measure movie quality for me and you get to do the same for yourself. Like food, there is undoubtedly some that we might hate but others may think it is the food of the gods."

Yes, which is why people calling others "snobs" because they didn't like the wooden acting and slipshod writing of Avatar is silly.

"People decide what movies are good by buying tickets to see them."

No, they decide what movies they are going to see. Buying a ticket for a movie doesn't mean you think it's good. I bought tickets to see the 2nd and 3rd Matrix movies, but I thought they were both terrible.

"If Avatar was so bad it would have sunk like a rock, but it stayed on top for weeks."

Yeah, by that measure The Phantom Menace was one of the best movies ever. :eyes:

"Some movies that deserve Oscar wins do not get them and others that might not, do. Such is life."

I'm glad Avatar didn't win Best Picture. It would be a depressing sign of how far movie standards have fallen.

[elocs]

57. There will never be a consensus as to which movie is better

because that is in the eye of the beholder. Like the Nobel Prizes, the Academy Awards are their prizes and they can give them to whoever their people decide should get them. There is no worldwide vote as to who most deserves the Oscars or what is the best movie. No film snobs get to decide which movies are best for everyone or to impose their views on everyone, and neither is there any select committee that gets to decide what the movie standards are for everyone either.

[Alexander]

59. But there was a consensus at the Academy Awards that Avatar didn't deserve Best Picture,

Which I agree with.

If you can't tell that the writing, acting and character development in District 9 was far superior to that of Avatar, I feel bad for you.

[tigereye]

89. interesting article in the NYT today talking about how many of the Acad voters

are now alternative film-makers and actors as opposed to old school studio types, hence the greater likelihood of smaller, artier films winning rather than giant, lumbering blockbusters.

[DarkTirade]

81. Of course the characters were multi-dimensional.

They were in 3d. :P

[Alexander]

83. LOL! Good one.

Ironic that for all the attention to 3d CGI, the people in the movie were only one dimension.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

44. After one hour I had a headache and was wondering when the hell it was going to be over

me too. it just dragged on and on and on. and the headache just got worse and worse and worse.

[huskerlaw]

17. Very little acting and a shoddy screenplay.

But yes, please do call me a snob for thinking that a movie that was 80% computer generated shouldn't have won. :eyes:

As others have said, technical achievements, yes. But overall best picture? Give me a break.

[Skittles]

19. not a bad movie

but Hurt Locker is far superior

[realisticphish]

21. I thought District 9 was better than both

I loved that film, not nearly enough people saw it.

It's especially powerful when you realize that the majority of the first person "these 'cockroaches' are garbage, we don't want them" interviews are REAL interviews, but about immigrants from central africa.

[elocs]

23. I don't break for Reavers either (big Firefly & Serenity fan),

but I hated District 9 and would have walked out had friends not taken me to it for my birthday. Maybe because I go to fictional movies to be entertained and not to be hit repeatedly over the head with a "message".

[CBR]

26. I liked District 9 the best also. nt

[Odin2005]

35. District 9 was very good. And SHOCKING.

And there is something symbolic about the main character being an Afrikaaner ("Dutch" South African).

[realisticphish]

56. well, everyone was

It's one of the first major South African films. I liked the "protagonist." You didn't really LIKE him (when he roasted all the eggs he showed himself to be less than a nice guy) but you were still fascinated by him

[LynneSin]

39. I loved District 9 - I just bought it on Blue Ray this weekend

I thought it was the most original film made this year and the plot really fit with what is happening in RL

[CrownPrinceBandar]

48. I agree with you Vault Dweller........

I liked "Avatar", but I thought that "D9" had a far better story, and the cultural context made the story that much more compelling.

[dionysus]

51. i'll buy that, hurt locker was great but district 9 was even better.

[Orrex]

65. No shit?!?!?

I loved the movie, but I didn't know that. What an amazing and horrible piece of trivia!

[realisticphish]

70. yeah

if you watch again, notice that they NEVER say "aliens" or anything like that, it's always "they" or something that's not obvious.

Of course that doesn't count the fake interviews with company employees, but rather the man-on-the-street stuff.

[Orrex]

71. I could look this up, but it's more fun to talk about it...

Were those the actual interviews, or were the recreated with actors?


As I mentioned, I loved the film on first viewing, but now I need to watch it again!

[realisticphish]

73. i THINK

that I read that they were actual interviews, but I don't know if that's the case

[Orrex]

75. Wow.

Before it hit the theaters, I heard an NPR story about it and its commentary on race, but I was totally unaware that the interviews were real.

That's a brilliant technique, by the way. It incorporates elements of a "mockumentary" while also telling an engaging story that seems very simple.


I'll need to read more about the production. Thanks for the info!

[realisticphish]

76. no problem

I was totally blown away; i expected a pretty bland sci-fi movie

[mreilly]

24. I'm not a snob; I like trashy movies...

... but Avatar had nothing to offer, in my mind. Zero plot, zero characters, zero interest. I left the movie theater after 45 minutes convinced I'd been had by a CGI ripoff that purported to be the "best cinematic experience ever." Kind of like being told "Take a ride in this Ferrari, the fastest most luxurious car ever!" then finding out you're sitting in a kid's Radio Flyer wagon, bumps and squeaks and all.

It's silly to argue over opinion; some people loved Avatar and I loathed it. Dances with Wolves was far superior, more original, more realistic and honestly represented in my mind.

[Deep13]

34. When I heard a synopsis of the plot, I was reminded of..

...Dances with Wolves.

Anyway, I know what you mean. Trashy movies have a right to be trashy. I liked Aliens because it was what it was. No pretense. When I rented Frankenhooker, I wasn't expecting Laurence of Arabia. It was a fun movie for what it was. On that note, it was nice to see Corman getting some acclaim.

[Burma Jones]

27. I liked Avatar just fine.......

back when it was called Dances With Wolves

[Shining Jack]

28. Lol !

:rofl:

[Orsino]

29. And why would Avatar fans even take notice, much less be intimidated?

How many millions more critics would it take to qualify as an actual "pile-on"?

[CBGLuthier]

30. I liked District 9

How the fuck could that make me a snob?

I can not help it if some people think pretty pictures can make up for a brain numbing stupid excuse of a story. Pretty pictures are for lulling babies to sleep.

[proteus_lives]

32. Yep, we're snobs....

Because we ask for good plots and characters.

Sorry about not being impressed by the shiny wrapping paper/special effects.

[Deep13]

33. I'm reminded of Jane Fonda's line in California Suite.

When Alan Alda accuses her of being a snob she says, "Thank God there's a few of us left."

I might rent it, but probably I won't. The derivative story and the amount of money used to make it is a turn-off for me. Not a fan of James Cameron anyway except for his really early stuff.

[stray cat]

36. Cameron is the one who gets to walk away laughing at the snobs

he has the highest grossing movie of all time and has changed the way the world views 3D

[LynneSin]

40. Actually he has the TWO highest grossing movies of all time

:D

[Alexander]

49. People who like good acting and writing are "snobs"? Movie standards really have fallen.

The fact that you measure movie quality in box office performance is just plain sad.

[alcibiades_mystery]

52. Nerddom, Thou Art Avenged!

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

66. So Cameron's got all the money and the popularity...

wait, who's a snob?

[bigwillq]

37. Haven't seen it. Really have no desire to.

I saw Precious and the Hurt Locker. Both were pretty good, but not as good as other past winners or nominees.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

38. I should see Avatar again ...

'cause the first time I saw it, I left without those cool glasses.

Next time, they're mine!

:hi:

... "The future's so bright ..."

[RadiationTherapy]

41. I would just like to say UNOBTANIUM!

UNOBTANIUM!

UNOBTANIUM!

UNOBTANIUM!UNOBTANIUM!UNOBTANIUM!UNOBTANIUM!UNOBTANIUM!UNOBTANIUM!

This movie never had a chance; or a writer.

[Odin2005]

43. Cameron intentionally used a sci-fi cliche.

Probably for symbolic purposes.

[RadiationTherapy]

46. Well, I mispelled it for symbolic purposes.

The only symbolism for 'unobtainium' is that it was unobtainable; except they were digging it up.

Also, the 'If you believe in hell, you may want to go there for R n R' - ridiculous and unfounded even within the context of the movie.

It's fine; I hate pop music too. I am a grumpy ass who has high demands for art and entertainment.

[PVnRT]

77. To be fair, "unobtainium" is a generic term used by material scientists & engineers

Basically, whenever they need a material to do some specific thing and can't figure out how to make it, they call it "unobtainium."

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

67. A sci-fi cliche? It was used once in "The Core" and it was mocked then too.

What wasn't "intentionally using a sci fi cliche."

He needed Gargamel to destroy the Smurf village so he invented a cheap plot device to explain why.

That's not symbolic. That's not clever.

It's a classic symptom of bad writing.

[NewJeffCT]

85. It's a pretty good movie with groundbreaking effects

the world of Pandora is just absolutely spectacular. The story itself is well done, but nothing extraordinary. As I had said before, the cartoon movie "Battle for Terra" came out 3-4 years ago and was almost the exact same story. Sure, Dances with Wolves and Ferngully had similarities, but BfT was really close.

[cbdo2007]

42. I think it has more to do with Hollywood people not liking James Cameron

than them not liking Avatar.

I hear he is not well liked by many of the Hollywood elite and they feel like he had his day in the sun with Titanic.

[dionysus]

50. what's the big deal? it's just a sci-fi movie...

[BuddhaGirl]

53. Loved it Loved it Loved it!!!

I can't wait to see it again, in IMAX this time - probably will go this week :bounce:

[KamaAina]

60. Actually, Favorite Human Being is an Avatar-hater

but not because she's a snob. She doesn't feel it presents a positive message about disability.

[Odin2005]

61. That Jake Sully was a paraplegic was one of the things I liked about the movie.

Especially the part early in the movie where he says that he's doing it to prove wrong people that said he couldn't.

[KamaAina]

62. I think it's that he becomes "non-disabled" when in his "avatar" body.

Then again, a) FHB does have a tendency to fixate on these kinds of things; and b) I haven't seen it, so I don't really know what the hell I'm talking about.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. It's not our fault you like shitty, stupid movies.

Acting sucked. Plot sucked. Writing sucked.

Hell, even the action and the special effects weren't very good.

[Mike 03]

69. It is sad that intelligent people can't understand that just because you don't LOVE something

you don't HATE it either.

What ever happend to nuance and "in-between."

I guess we are entering into moronville, where common sense just evaporates, and people don't understand what "opinions" are worth anymore.

[Captain Hilts]

79. Well, that's the problem with threads about the president....nt

[lukasahero]

80. It's getting more and more difficult to tell the left from the right

There is no room for nuance any more.

[Captain Hilts]

78. They're snobs. It's a good movie. nt

[Rabrrrrrr]

82. If by "snob" you mean someone smart enough to make a valid artistic critique, then yes.

Call me a snob.

I prefer the term "actually knows what I'm talking about", but 'snob' is a much easier way for the mentally challenged to dismiss their superiors.

I loved Avatar. I enjoyed the hell out of it. But apart from oscars for technical stuff - which was brilliant - it was otherwise a ham-fisted script with a heavy-handed message lacking in nuance, subtlety, or passion, and certainly deserved no oscars for directing, script, acting, or best picture.

[bikebloke]

84. I preferred District 9, too.

Also Bright Star, which would have been perfect with a car chase.


:evilgrin:

[LanternWaste]

86. I didn't like Return to Gilligan's Island, either...

I didn't like Return to Gilligan's Island either, but then again, being the snob that I am, I like a meaty script with enough character depth to allow an actor to really get their teeth into.

Of course, Return to Gilligan's Island played off some long-established literary archetypes, too.

[MilesColtrane]

90. I agree.

Gilligan's Island without Tina Louise is like Sherwood without his Schwartz.

[LanternWaste]

91. Or Mary without Ann...

Tina's absence was part of the problem. She was able to bring a gravitas to her character that contrasted quite nicely with The Skipper's antics. Sure, we could go round and round about the age old conundrum of whether the Professor had a Doctorate or a Master's, but that's hardly germain... :P