How do you settle an issue with non-internet people?

[UTUSN]

O.K., I'm so LOW tech I'm barely here. But, predictably, I have acquaintances who are even NON tech, see where I'm going with this.

So, in, say, "Happy" Hour situations, discussions sometimes become disputes, and not (only) on matters of opinion, but of FACT.

Many times I have easily settled some things ------the NEXT time I'm there, because I don't have a laptop or carry one to such places------- with printed out stuff from Google and such. Fine.

But sometimes some of these non-techs fall back on a popular canard: "Oh, the internet is NOT TRUE. You can see any UNtrue thing on the internet. The internet is totally made up." Etc.

TWO EXAMPLES:

1) This fellow, who is older and African American, claimed that Queen Latifah is the daughter of Muhammed Ali. When I got home it took a minute or less to find scads of links on both her and him, with the names of their parents, siblings, and children, and, of course, they are not related. That is, the specific issue of their being related was not addressed, but neither appeared in the other's lists of relatives. IT IS CLEAR THAT THEY ARE NOT RELATED. So I printed out the PROOF and carried it around for the next time when the pal and I would run into each other, and I presented it to him. So, what was the result?! Why, the-internet-is-fake argument. He added that he will get his mother to mail him HIS "proof" (which has not happened to date, two months later). Plus, he said that African Americans have their OWN trusted sources of information that everybody else is not privy to. I actually think he actually had some DOUBT introduced into his belief, but won't admit it.

2) This retired city official, of a TINY municipality, claimed that there is some "higher" source of the American legal system, something he couldn't think of. I said the-Constitution. He said, no, it was something ELSE and fished for words, at one point saying "Canon Law." I said that is the Catholic Church thingy. He tried "Common Law." I said that that is the possibility for SOME "precedent" basis, but that everything (supposedly) has to be "Constitutional." He became vociferous, saying that there is plenty of "law, like business law or Administrative Code that is NOT from the Constitution." I said that specific "laws" are passed by Congress and the state legislatures, that the word "Code" is a tip-off it is Federal, Congressional law, AND (upping the personal ante or animus) that I was amazed that a former governmental official didn't know what the Constitution is. O.K., that might have pissed him off. From long experience with how these things turn out, I took a napkin and wrote down the two or three issues, starting with "Legal system of the U.S." because I suspected that when I came back with the printed stuff he would say I had changed the questions/issues. Back home, it took me two minutes to find the stuff. And what happened when I got back----why, he barely LOOKED at the stuff, and yelled that the QUESTION/ISSUE was "the LAW system of the U.S." I reminded him I had written the issue in front of him and asked him to define the difference between "law" and "legal."

Or, changing the topic, is it just better to see the futility of what's coming and just OPT OUT of these discussions?!1

[Orrex]

1. I defriend them.

[rug]

2. I usually insult their mother.

[UTUSN]

3. Bwah-HAH to both posters 1 & 2!1 n/t

[Ikonoklast]

4. I smash them in the face with a brick.

I used to set them on fire, but I was told that was being 'anti-social' and 'psychotic' whatever the hell that psycho-babble stuff means.

So, now I'm all politically correct and stuff.

[Electric Monk]

13. No, you've got it all wrong. Use a large trout, preferably fresh but not too fresh.

[Jamastiene]

5. I just nod my head to signify that I hear them until they ask me

if I'm listening, then say, "How 'bout this (insert fine or lousy here) weather we've been having lately?" and grin like I'm in LaLa land. They eventually give up trying to be all serious with me.

I used to be sad about it, but now I am learning that getting older does have its perks. People don't care if you don't pay attention to them so much. So, I do have a bit of an advantage there.

However, if they persist in trying to be all serious with me, I tend to go cuckoo bananas on them. They do tend to back down from crazy too, I have noticed.

If all else fails, I go ahead and body slam them. Fuck it. Life's too short to argue with people who are wrong.

[struggle4progress]

6. If you are looking for rhetorical techniques, you could always try "Socratic questions."

To play "Socratic questions," you begin with a thorough profession of your own ignorance and proceed to ply your opponent with carefully chosen questions

With a bit of practice, you easily make your opponent look like a fool -- which is typically resented: the standard gambit then is simply to protest that you are innocently and meritoriously attempting to become better informed and to thank your opponent for trying to help

Although "Socratic questions" is a lovely technique, one ought to remember that its inventor was condemned to death for irritating people (although the trumped-up charges actually used involved more obvious crimes, like teaching that the moon was merely a big rock)

The victim's irritation should therefore be carefully monitored and taken seriously

[Amerigo Vespucci]

7. Pick up a laptop and lob it at their skull

If you aim just right you can knock them out cold, and by default, you win the argument.

While they're unconscious, make sure to go through their pockets and their wallet / purse and take anything you like.*










* :sarcasm:

:rofl:

[UTUSN]

8. Oh, and the dude in Example #2 also claimed that the 12yr old girl in "Taxi Driver" was Brooke

SHIELDS. In the middle of our other discussions, which had gotten heated, he asked out of the blue whether I had seen "Taxi Driver". I wondered whether he had detected some you-talkin'-to-ME? tendencies in me, which would have, at least, been a logical perception stemming from my increasing FURY. But, no, his reason for asking was just to remark on his belief that Brooke SHIELDS had played the 12 yr old prostitute. I couldn't immediately think of the name but said it was the actress in Silence of the Lambs. He came up with Jodie FOSTER, and I said THAT's the one in Taxi Driver. On this particular point, he immediately retreated and accepted the correction.

But, taking his irrelevant point and making it relevant, I asked whether he remembered the scene where DE NIRO had gone to his fellow, older co-drivers and had tried to explain his problems and had tried to get direction and advice from them and had gotten nothing, which further set him on his path of destruction---his fate. He did not give me a clue as to whether he had taken my example as a token of his and my situation in our other disputes.

[Orrex]

9. He's remembering Brooke Shields' role in 1978's "Pretty Baby"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Baby_%281978_film%29

Shields' character Violet is 12, the same age as Foster's character Iris in 1976's Taxi Driver. You might offer up this info as a kind of olive branch, to show the internet isn't entirely wired with bullshit.


And I'm very confident that missed your Bickle/path-of-destruction analogy. Far too vague for someone who appears to be most comfortable with largely concrete thinking.

[UTUSN]

10. No olive branches. He & I have taken your original option and de-friended.

When he tossed the "Legal system of the U.S." material on the counter top without reading it, he said, "I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU!1" and departed to the other end of the bar. Time has passed and silence has tamped down our anger, so we can be at the same place, even next to each other, but we don't speak.

Example #1 and I are still pals and occasionally bring up Queen Latifah, not to re-hash the argument but just to comment on his continued insistence that she is ALI's daughter.

[Iggo]

11. Happy Hour situations?

Threaten to kick their ass.

And follow through. Hit 'em hard. Hit 'em fast. And most important of all: Hit 'em first.

(thank gawd I don't drink anymore)

[Forkboy]

12. Duel at 10 paces.

Though I tend to cheat and take only 9. :evilgrin:

[HopeHoops]

14. "You're just a poopy-head" usually works for me.

It generally isn't worth the argument. The comic strip Arlo and Janus summed it up nicely a few days ago. Arlo is running searches on the computer and walks back to the couch. Janus asks for the verdict and he says "40% of online sources agree with me and 60% agree with you." She says, "HAH! See, I was right!"

There's a bit of art involved in figuring out which sources to trust and which are questionable (like Drudge).

[Symarip]

15. Call them 'hitler'

Put them on forced ignore.

[NoPasaran]

16. Invade them, kill their leaders & convert them to Christianity

I read that on the internet somewhere.

[The2ndWheel]

17. How long did you carry the proof about Ali/Latifah around?

How long would you have carried it around?

[UTUSN]

19. He knows my schedule, but he's not on a schedule, so it could go a week, however,

in that particular case, it was a next day situation. The problem is that sometimes these characters reject the proof one day, then unexpectedly ask for on another day, like, they've thought about it and have decided to give it another look. So it's unpredictable.

Also, sometimes they take it the first day, which would be fine if they were going to study it, but then they just toss it and then expect you to provide it some later day?!1 Know what I mean?!1

Plus, once you provide the proof, the issue is OVER, correct?!1 Well, NOT!1 Many times I've had to do another Search and another Print because either they or I discarded the stuff, then they bring it up again.

[LeftyFingerPop]

18. People exist outside of the internet?

[Common Sense Party]

20. +100

:spray:

[SarahB]

21. Never argue with an idiot.

They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.