Favorite English Monarch?

[SiobhanClancy]

Poll question: Favorite English Monarch?

Since my people come from Cork,I could do without most of them;)..but somehow the personality of Charles II appeals.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. None of the above?

They all suck.

[terrya]

2. Elizabeth II.

A nice, sweet old lady who has tried to maintain the dignity of the monarchy in spite of her family....

Terry

[Screaming Lord Byron]

3. Other - Richard III

'cos I'm awkward.

[SiobhanClancy]

4. Alfred is out,Richard is in...

just for you:)

[T_i_B]

7. Naw, keep Alfred

Cake watching aside he was a very good king.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

9. Aw, thanks.

But I suppose Alfred deserves his spot. Richard was a victim of Tudor propoganda and slander, so I stand up for him whenever there's a poll out, but as he only ruled for two years, we can't really rate him as a monarch.

On edit - James I? English? Surely some mistake! }(

[SiobhanClancy]

12. I switched James for Alfred...

Although James wasn't English,he WAS king of England(as well as Scotland).At least he could speak English,unlike George I who as I understand it only spoke German when he took the throne.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

15. That's OK, I was just pointing out that it's not just the Irish that have

issues with this particular subject. As someone who is both Scottish, second generation Irish, and third generation Welsh, I'm surprised I can discuss this issue without exploding :evilgrin:

On edit - don't change your polls for us whingers. We'll moan about anything!

[T_i_B]

5. I voted Henry II

He was a good king who introduced some massivly important legal reforms, but his copybook will forever be blotted by the whole Thomas Beckett incident.

Edward I would have got my vote without question had he not expelled the jews.

[snippy]

6. Ethelred 'The Unready.' King from 978 to 1016.

[SiobhanClancy]

8. Why was Ethelred your favorite?

Enquiring minds want to know:)

[snippy]

14. His name and inability to make decisions represent

the importance and value of royalty.

[Spider Jerusalem]

16. Fun fact™:

Ethelred's sobriquet "the Unready" was given to him as an infant, when he pissed in the baptismal font at his christening.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

17. Anal historian point.

The term unready is a translation of the old anglo-saxon term unraed, which can mean both indecisive, ill-prepared, or ill-advised.

Ill-prepared works well for the pissing argument, I think. I'd never heard that one before, I always assumed it was because his choice of counsellors was poor.

[Spider Jerusalem]

19. Whoops. slightly faulty memory...

apparently he shat in the baptismal font. (Supposedly causing St. Dunstan to prophesy an evil reign when he became king....bad omens and all that sort of thing...)

[snippy]

28. How was that Clinton's fault?

[SiobhanClancy]

29. EVERYTHING is Clinton's fault....

never forget it.

[T_i_B]

74. Another fun fact, he was an ursurper

He succeeded to the throne after the murder of his half-brother, Edward II, the Martyr. His mother was belived to have been behind the murder and was seen as the power behind the throne.

The vikings invaded (again!) in his reign, imposed the Danegeld and the thing that most people round where I live in Essex learn about in their history lessons is the battle of Maldon in his reign, when the vikings sailed down the Blackwater estuary and kicked the crap out of the Anglo-Saxons. As I'm in Maldon most of the time I do hear about that.

[Bridget Burke]

10. Charles II

Even though most of my ancestors had little use for English kings, either.

Just to offend the puritans!

[Screaming Lord Byron]

11. Well, the Stuarts were Scots anyhow.

Not that they were particularly good at the whole monarchy business.

[Snow]

75. That's why they were "stewards"

although I had some elderly female relatives who observed a ceremony of drinking a glass of water (!) on midnight of New Year's. Supposedly the family had helped Bonny Prince Charles to cross the water.

[T_i_B]

76. Not related to Flora McDonald perchance?

http://www.ehistory.com/world/amit/display.cfm?amit_id=1304

[Snow]

79. Fascinating.

I don't think so, though - I've not heard of Flora. I'll have to check with my mother & see just which relatives did that. I think they were either Moss or Strickland.

[T_i_B]

90. Not heard of her?

I think she's a bit of a heroine in Scotland, and the less said about "Butcher" Cumberland the better.

[Snow]

104. ~sigh~ Yes, a heroine in Scotland she may be, but I was taught

history in the US, sadly. We barely learned where Scotland is. As someone with border scot ancestry myself (the area around Lake Windermere) I should be more diligent in learning this stuff. After all, my wife can tell stories about her antecedents from 500 years or more ago.....

[Screaming Lord Byron]

80. Toasting the King over the Water.

An old Jacobite tradition, toasting the Stuart heir exiled in France (hence, over the water), it actually predates Charles Edward Stuart.

[Snow]

105. Now you've piqued my curiosity, & I found

a homepage for the Jacobites. Fascinating stuff - they have some bavarian noble whom they consider the king of england. Wonder what he thinks of that.

[SiobhanClancy]

13. My choice,too

A fun guy,by all accounts:)

[TN al]

18. George VI

My grandmother told me stories about how he helped to steel the resolve of the English people during the war.

[DODI]

93. I second that

For a man that was not suppose to be King he did an amazing job. That was the Windsor's shining moment. In the long run, he gave his life for his country.

[NashVegas]

20. Eleanor of Aquitaine

Too bad about that tower thing.

[SiobhanClancy]

21. Eleanor was magnificent...

I think next time we need a poll on consorts:)

[sweetheart]

22. an end to the monarchy..

would be my favourite monarch.

[SiobhanClancy]

23. I certainly agree....

it's absurd in this day and age. Still,you can have a capable ruler like Elizabeth I.....and conversely,a pitiful excuse for an "elected" leader,such as *.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

26. The usual counter to the republican argument is

'yeah, well if you get rid of the monarchy, what are you going to replace it with?', pointing out that a President and a Prime Minister of a Government is a fairly crowded field. I wonder if we could get away with having no head of state whatsoever? I think Canada could do that.

P.S. As I am sure most people here know, I am for an end to the monarchy.

[Bridget Burke]

33. Mark Twain suggested a family of Persian Cats

To replace the British monarchy. They look regal & their upkeep is much cheaper.

[SiobhanClancy]

35. Smarter,too...

at least compared to the current crop of royals(no offense to any monarchists!)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

39. Let's offend the monarchists. The current royals are a hopeless bunch.

[SiobhanClancy]

41. true,they're a mess...

Btw,didn't you post about Michael Collins in the unsung heroes thread? I was wondering what you thought De Valera's role was in his assassination,if any?

Am I hijacking my own thread?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

47. I don't know enough about De Valera's involvement in Collins' death.

I have heard rumours of course, but I couldn't say for sure.

[SiobhanClancy]

50. I don't think anyone knows for sure...

although most of my Irish friends seem to take it as a given that De Valera was somehow involved. I DO know that he prevented Michael from getting the honors and respect due to him during his very long career.

[Snow]

77. In the UK, okay, I'll give you that.

but countries that don't have nobles & royals just can't seem to resist the urge to create them. Usually with money.

Also, there are some very decent, competent royals out there. A friend of mine is friends with the shah of afghanistan, for example, who is a very decent, competent, kind man who has for decades been doing his best in a very tough position. He looks a lot like the orginal "Mr Goodwrench" - tall, slender, bald, glasses. And there are others who function very well. The spanish royals have been impressive lately.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

81. Fair enough. As a Canadian, I can only comment on my own monarchs.

[sweetheart]

51. I think scottie dogs would be better

As they're more people animals, and geez, the royals are supposed to
be there for their subjects. Imagine the outpouring of love and
doggie biscuts when the royals come to town. :-)

The coinage of the nation could be converted to have little doggie
faces on the coins... heck, even canada would have to change their
coins to be dog-royal. Then at a bark, the dogs could abolish the
canadian and australian parliaments, and usurp power in the name
of terriers the globe over... that the human population be reduced
to door opening, driving royals around and poop scooping. ;-)

[sweetheart]

49. The monarchy represses equal rights

As it creates a tier of human beings who are above equal rights.
The implied effect that people can change their station in life by
their own industry... this thinking is weakened, and britain is
left a nation of not-so-entrepreneurs.

Also, as the royals are in power for long periods, compared to
parlimentary administrations, the royals undermine the government,
as any favours owed by tony blair will only be payable for 2 years
or so... whilst the royal family will be paying its obligations
much longer... citizens are, in practice, more likely to attune to
the ruler who will be there tomorrow for them... so though it appears
that britain's "constitutional monarchy" is not a problem, quite
the reverse is true.

The royalty should be completely removed from the constitutional
processes of britain and given a private life. This would finally
allow britain to come to terms with equality under the law.

[Snow]

78. Just like the bushies, eh? -eom-

[LagaLover]

24. Henry VIII

Tennis...Greensleeves...and a catchy tune!

[emad]

25. Edward VIII: he told them to shove it and married the woman

he loved.

The Presidential Medal of Fredom that JFK awarded to Wallis has an amazing citation and dispells myths about what 'The Special Relationship' really means.

The family is publishing all this in a new biog about her later this year.

Stuff the BFEE, time to hang, draw and quarter them!

[TN al]

27. The evidence is pretty clear

that edward was a nazi.

[emad]

30. Rubbish! The JFK citation on Wallis's Presidential Freedom

Medal attests to the war work she and her husband did that was an immense contribution to the destruction of the Nazis.

In addition, Wallis was a niece of Harry S Truman's wife Bessie - and was named after her. Harry S Truman was a lifelong personal friend and the correspondence betwen the Duke & Duchess and Harry S and his family is to be published in the Wallis biog later this year.

What's more, their daughter married Harry S Truman's murdered nephew's surviving son. And both Harry and his wife were at the wedding. All the biog documents are goihng to be in the book.

Harry also testified in 1967 on the Duke & Duchess's behalf when they successfully sued the late 'Queen Mother' for causing grevious bodily harm to their daughter and for conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. The supporting documents from his affidavit shows that the Nazi smear had been started by the Queen Mother and was financed by the P2 Lodge.

Edward VIII abdicated because he would not toe the line with mainly Catholic Tories who wanted him to make a dynastic marriage with any of a number of hideous Euro princesses. He also refused to do a deal to appease Hitler and become a puppet of the UK Labour Party.

The Nazi smear has long ben refuted.

Anyone who ever knew him and Harry S knows this.

[TN al]

36. You seem to be easily convinced

The truth of the matter is that Edward was a frequent guest of Hitlers before the war. The English had to kidnap him from Spain because he refused to come home and they made him governor of Jamaica to get him out of the theater. However he may have not been a nazi, perhapse he was only stupid and a dupe.

[emad]

46. Your knowledge of English history is like a BFEE elec tion

manifesto.

FACT: Goering tried to assasinate him and Wallis in Spain because Edward had sourced documents proving Catholic Church financial conduits that were bankrolling the Nazis. Those documents were passed on to Roesevelt. FACT: Edward eventually elected to take up the post of Governor General of the BAHAMAS on the suggestion of Harry S Truman. FACT: documents about this have ben held back from the public domain and will be published later this year.

Edward VIII was asked to mediate by the UK prime minister and open up a channel of dialogue to ensure that there would be no invasion of either Poland or Czechoslovakia. His personal thoughts on this subject are recorded in letters to Roesevelt. Again, to be published later this year.

His personal papers about this episode, also show that he was asked to do a considerable amount of dialogue warwork by Winston Churchill.

Anyone who ever KNEW him, or Harry S, or Winston Churchill, is rubbing their hanfds with gle at the prospect of debunking all the BFEE sponsored crap about Wallis and Edward being Nazis or Nazi sympathisers....

[TN al]

53. Sources?

[emad]

57. As a journalist/writer/author I have followed their history in

minute detail. They are more secretive than Bill Gates. Probably because they have more money than him!

Not much is available online about them but Harry S Trumans great nephew is a Professor of Clinical Psychiatry and a world expert on the psychopathology of criminal cults. Lectured extensively at New York University in the 1980s and is much published in professional journals of psychiatry.

Not much about his/their lives is archived. Expect they guard their privacy pretty fiercely...

[TN al]

66. So your source is

out of your own head? I don't want to be ugly but you throw the word "fact" around in much the same manner that a freeper does and your sources too are similar. You also seem to speak of them in the present tense but Edward died in 1972 and Wallis within the last five years. This coupled with pronoun confusion in an earlier post would lead me to question your journalism credentials. I'm sorry but this entire discussion just proves to me that I have too much time on my hands. One thing my grandmother did tell me about Edward is how charming he was so lets just leave it at that.

[emad]

69. I am not going to include online sources that would reveal

the name under which I have worked professionally for US, UK and other major newspapers or TV.

Wallis died in 1986, not within the last five years.

I am an expert witness at the UK BCCI vs Bank of England class action, to which I refer in my post below providing the DU discussion link from January this year about this biz.

I maintain my anonimity.

Look out for the Wallif book later this year.

[TN al]

71. I'm sure your mother is very proud of you

[emad]

72. Wouldn't Know, but I'll make sure I ask her!

I HAVE seen some of the galley proofs and photos to be included in the Wallis book. And helped on the indexing of 1936-1972 material that refers to Harry and Bessie Truman.

[SiobhanClancy]

38. That Truman connection is interesting....

certainly the first time I've heard of anything like this.

[TN al]

43. There is a lot in that post that is the first time people have heard it

I was of the belief that Edward and Wallis were childless. If Wallis was named for Bess then why is her name Wallis. There are very few catholics in England, certainly not enough to have a voting block in parliament whether it be tory, liberal or labour. Sueing the queen mother? There is just a too many things here that I cant follow from the post.

[emad]

54. They had a daughter. Six grand children. Very nearly fourteen

great grand children (haven't checked sources recently about the latest count). Great supporters of Clinton. Rumoured to have personally contributed in excess of $25 million to his 1992 election campaign. Threw a party for him at Marlborough House in April 1992 when he was in the early stages of his presidential campaign. Threw another party for him at their DeWitt Clinton Park mansion off 11th Avenue, New York, on the occasion of Mikhail Gorbachev's birthday. Had him and Hillary over to stay in their South England medieval manor house on at least three occasions, including in the spring of 1996 when he announced the Democrats' election strategy to the BBC's flagship programme Newsnight: interview with Jeremy Paxman was filmed at their residence. etc etc etc etc

Catholics in UK in 1936: approximately 40% of England, Scotland, Wales and N Ireland were Catholics. Voting block significant in Parliament, especially in the House of Lords.

Suing the Queen Mother: they won damages in excess of £2,500,000 . Archive film footage of the party they held in celebration at London's Claridges Hotel is held by the family. Some UK journalists have seen it.

Edit: She was born Bessie Wallis Warfield, named after Elizabeth (Bessie) Wallace Truman.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

60. Sorry, who specifically gave the party for Clinton?

Edward of course died in 1972 and Wallis in 1986, so I assume you mean a descendent. There are no official records of offspring, so is there some secret source?

On edit - Sorry, you must mean the Trumans, right?

[emad]

64. The Trumans: right! There are plenty of records of the offspring

and of the marriage to Harry S's great nephew.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

65. Now things seem a little more clear. Thanks.

[SiobhanClancy]

61. You really should provide some sources for this stuff...

it's fairly incredible,really.

[emad]

67. YOU try googling up sources about this: not much is archived

online at all.

It's probably one of the best kept secrets the Dems have ever had. And it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Harry S Truman's personal papers that related to BFEE criminal involvement are lodged in evidence in the UK BCCI v Bank of England class action in the Royal Courts of Justice:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1015941

[thom1102]

31. Richard the Lionheart!

watched too many Robin Hood films when I was kids.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

32. He had next to no interest in England and bankrupted the country

to finance his crusade.

Still. He did have nice hair.

[thom1102]

34. Yeah, but set up John for the Magna Carta

Left him weak enough that the nobles could demand concession. Beginning of democracy?

[NashVegas]

42. My Problem w/Henry II

Is that he didn't do such a good job of setting up the next generation to be fit for rule.

[SiobhanClancy]

44. To say the least....

at one time(or maybe more than once)he was actually at war with his own sons.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

48. Same with Henry IV. That sort of thing seems to have been common.

[mobuto]

62. Richard was a fascinating man

Read about his relations with Salladin. The man may not have been a great king, but he was an amazing human being.

[SiobhanClancy]

37. That's cool...

It's "favorite",not "best" anyway...although I tried to pick some of the better ones for my useless poll:)

[Mobius]

40. George III

bad management made us a free country.

[mobuto]

45. Henry II

By the Grace of God King of the English, Lord of Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, Count of Anjou, Brittany, Poitou and Normandy, Maine, Gascony, and Acquitaine.

[SiobhanClancy]

52. With respect,Ireland hasn't had a king for a VERY long time....

no matter what the occupiers might have claimed:)

[Screaming Lord Byron]

55. The Lord of Scotland claim is equally suspect.

Not really the sort of claim one can enforce. Mary Queen of Scots styled herself Queen of Scotland, England and France, with an equal lack of success.

[mobuto]

58. No, its not suspect

In 1175, Henry II forced Malcolm King of Scotland to swear fealty to him. From then on Henry II was Lord of Scotland.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

63. Like I say, difficult to enforce.

He may well have been Lord de jure, he certainly wasn't de facto.
The King of Scots (note the name - not King of Scotland, there never has been a King of Scotland, only a King of the Scots) may say whatever he wishes, but Henry was never able to enforce an empty title of dubious merit. Simply put, William could not grant Scotland to Henry. Of course, it was the actions of a later king, John Baliol who in swearing fealty to Edward (under duress, like William) caused the Wallace rebellion and ultimately the rebirth of the Scottish nation.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

68. You got the wrong King, Mobuto, it was William the Lion (as I thought)

not Malcolm the Maiden. Here's the BBC on the Treaty of Falaise.

The basic problem of having one island with two kingdoms was that one was bigger and richer than the other.

English kings claimed superiority over the Scots but the Scottish kings stubbornly refused to agree - unless they were forced to do so by powerful English armies or, as in the case of William the Lion, by being put in jail.

William the Lion, King of Scots, was captured by Henry II of England and forced to recognise English overlordship of Scotland with the Treaty of Falaise.

Although Henry decided not to enforce his rights over Scotland, King William was constantly trying to wriggle out of the treaty. Fifteen years later, Richard the Lionheart of England agreed that the Treaty of Falaise was obtained by force and he cancelled it.

[SiobhanClancy]

59. I thought I'd leave it to you to speak on behalf of the Scots...

am biting my figurative tongue to keep from saying any more about the subject:)

[mobuto]

56. Henry II was King of Ireland

He conquered it; that made it his. I am aware that Ireland is no longer a subject of England's. But then neither is Normandy.

[SiobhanClancy]

70. Ruaidrí macToirrdelbaig was the last Ard Ri(High King) of Ireland..

after which Henry II did call himself King of Ireland,a fact which no one would would dispute.

[T_i_B]

73. OI! MOBUTO

We agree on something!

[mobuto]

83. Ok I change my mind

I can't let myself agree with you. ;-)

How about Harold II or Edward the Confessor? Both were terrific.

[veganwitch]

82. victoria

only because i loved that time period. the art and literature (and politics) rocked/continues to rock.

[geniph]

84. William the Bastard, Duke of Normandy

interesting character. He's my "favorite" in the sense that he's my favorite to study. As another child of Erin, I can't say I'm any too enamored of the Sassenach, either.

[SiobhanClancy]

85. Another good reason to like William...

he did to them what they did to everybody else. Also,"The Bastard" is a really neat sobriquet:)

[Padraig18]

86. None of the above.

:puke:

[JohnKleeb]

88. none of em

is what I said :).

[JohnKleeb]

87. Clancy we have talked

NONE OF EM!

[SiobhanClancy]

89. Obviously,I was extremely bored this morning...

and so did waste my time thinking about these evil ones. I'm surprised it got so much interest,really.

[JohnKleeb]

108. anglophiles

:shrug:

[Piperay]

91. Richard III

I used to belong to the Richard III Society. I loved to study that era it was a fascinating period and an interesting mystery with the little 'princes' in the Tower.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

97. Who do you consider responsible for the death of the princes?

I suspect Buckingham, myself.

[Piperay]

107. I do too...

I definitely do not think it was Richard III.

[MichaelUK]

92. Long live the Queen.

Right you bunch of ingrates, here's the beef (British, with or without madness).

1) The current monarchy is based exclusively on the shoulders of Queen Eliz II - she has reigned since 1952 and has seen a change in popular culture that has never really happened before. She is still popular with the masses, the monarchy is still respected and she is still in power. Granted, Philip's a bit mad (but he is Greek), and Charles is ... frankly, whoever would prefer Camilla over Diana wants his head examining (but Philip and Eliz are cousins - they share a great-great grandmother in Queen Victoria).

2) The English Monarchy must continue. To remove it would not only remove the last vestiges of nationality my country has, but would also start the gradual slide of the UK into Europia, which must never happen. My reasoning is this. Currently, and for the forseeable future, the UK acts as a bridge between Europe and the US. If the UK were to enter Europe and form a super-state, relations would either improve beyond measure, creating a US-Europe superpower that would change the world for the better, OR the 2 states would split apart and never talk again. And, frankly, I distrust politicians so much that the latter is far more likely.

3) Ireland has never been under official English rule. Incursions by Cromwell (which led to the Troubles of the past 30-odd years) were against the original Catholic English settlers (from Queen Elizabeth's reign) who were still loyal to the crown. Previous wars/incursions had been to suppress rebellions against the crown before they marched into Wales, got the Boyoh's up in arms, probably got the Scots involved too and beat the crap out of the English. It's called "Preventive Action" (see Iraq, Afganistan, Vietnam etc). It was not until several acts of Parliament in the reigns of the Georges (and also a bit in the reign of Charles II) that Ireland is officially made part of the British Protectorate. However, as was very astutely pointed out earlier, since the reign of Henry II, there has been no Irish Monarch and the English Monarch has accepted responsibility. This is because the Irish couldn't be bothered to find a new king, and preferred to get pissed, which sounds like a great plan to me.

4) The "best" English Monarch was, IMHO, Edward III. His campaigns against France meant that, had his son Edward the Black Prince taken the throne, Englands possesions in France would have been quite considerable. Not only that, but his wife, Elanor, was a shrewd political woman, and ruled more than capably in his place, successfuly putting down a Scottish incursion just after the Battle of Crecy (1346).

[sweetheart]

94. what's a monarchist doing on DU?

For a democratic person to prefer state-enshrined inequality under
the law is odd.

I don't buy that claptrap you're singing about the monarchy being
at all important in modern britain. It is a legacy.

Edward III was the lying asswipe who put down the peasant revolt,
and had 1000's of people murdered. Clearly you're not much in
touch with the highlanders of where you live, or you would not
be so fond of the "Scottish incursion".

Your comment about the irish just preferring to get pissed rather
than have a good ruler is bigoted and very unbecoming. It strikes
me that your love of the monarch, veils your approval of mass murders
and the repression of civil rights in britain for hundreds of years.

Even today, our taxes go towards supporting a class of people who
leech off of the british public, and offer no value besides nice
photo ops.

The monarchy should end with elisabeth II, and prince william should
be given a normal life. Long live the queen, may the monarchy
end tomorrow.

[T_i_B]

95. Monarchists are allowed sweetheart...

I don't agree that Ireland was never under official rule. William Pitt's Union Act of 1801 made sure of that. It's just that we never treated the Irish very well anyway.

However, I'm not about to say that republicanism must be the watchword on a Democrat discussion board. I honestly couldn't give two hoots on the matter other than that I'm not a great fan of the Diana cult that has sprung up since her death.

[Snow]

109. Thank goodness!

there's likely at least a few aristocrats, dynastic nobles, & the occasional royal posting here - hate to think they wouldn't be welcome, as long as they're Democrats (or Greens, maybe?)

[emad]

96. Reading your post makes me think just how easy it has been

for BFEE disinformation on the English monarchy to accrue and spread. Especially your No 1!

The counter-intelligence drip fed by the press and thru the internet is a long running cover up.

Many Brits in their 50s and older can attest to that....

[Screaming Lord Byron]

98. I find the term 'English monarchy' deeply ironic.

Has there been an 'English' king since the 6th century? Does anyone know what percentage of the ancestral make up of the current monarchy is actually English?

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

101. None of them are really English

They are made up of more German royal blood than anything . Why don't they just admit that .

[Screaming Lord Byron]

99. If Ireland has never been under official English rule

How could the Irish be rebelling against the crown?

[SOteric]

100. Henry V, and Coeur de Leon

But I have to acknowledge a love of the name Athelred the Unready, if only for the comical image of surprise it conjures up everytime I read it.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

102. Henry V was overly vicious in his French campaigns.

The Henry V we know is Laurence Olivier on screen, it is the Shakespeare version. The real Henry was somewhat more brutal (in common with the times, but still vicious) Henry's treatment of captured towns and non-combatants was pretty horrific.

[SOteric]

103. "Overly vicious" is a matter of opinion.

He was successful at them.

Perhaps you're confused into thinking I've learnt my history from movies and literature.

:hi:

[Screaming Lord Byron]

106. I can only go from the history books I've read on the subject.

Consensus would seem to be that the expeditions Henry led in France were sadistic in their treatment of civilians. Whether that was the case or not is, given the time elapsed, impossible to judge. Personally, I would judge his campaigns on the impact they had upon those in their path. They were certainly successful for Henry and his cause, but not for the average French peasant.

[Most Rev. Jerry]

110. King James

And his Bible, which is the word of God.


Glory!