L O S T: Richard Alpert

[undeterred]

[Ohio Joe]

1. woah...

Your dead!

[RockaFowler]

2. Shocked, shocked I tell you

I hope he means it's a metaphor

[charlie and algernon]

3. huh, 1867

he's old, damn old.

[Ohio Joe]

4. I really thought he was going to be older

I was thinking 1700's at least.

[XemaSab]

20. I was thinking

-1700s. :P

[Goblinmonger]

28. Me, too

I was thinking some Egyptian something or other.

[semillama]

33. Me too

I was hoping he was the dude who built the statue.

[grace0418]

37. I was thinking perhaps Roman times. Because they were calling him Richardus at one point.

He was Richardo in the story last night, and Richard in present day. So where did Richardus come from?

[Bucky]

59. As Juliet stated, all Others are required to learn Latin (which I bet becomes significant)

Richardus is the latinization of Ricardo, Richard's original name. Thus when they're talking in code they'd call each other Beniamus, Iulieta, and Eye-patchius and so forth.

[Goblinmonger]

72. Do we have a Bawabus?

Couldn't resist the Python reference. Eye-patchius is hilarious!

[charlie and algernon]

5. million bucks says that Hurley was talking to the the ghost of Richard's girlfriend

i betcha she plays a part on the island somehow.

[charlie and algernon]

13. well I totally called that, LOL

still a very touching scene.


I now think that Hurley will be the one who eventually takes over for Jacob. He seems the most pure and the one who most wants to help others.

[Bucky]

18. The problem with Hurley taking over for Jacob is that Hurley is good & compassionate

Jacob's kind of an asshole. Plus Jacob has to be willing to kill to save the island. Hurley only kills when he's driving a van, or sharing a balcony with you.

[Goblinmonger]

27. Jacob really put an asskicking on Richard, didn't he.

Maybe Hurley would be a better guardian because of his nature? Whomever it is, are their bodies going to be the ones with the rocks or are those bodies Jacob and Flocke?

[Jade Fox]

42. If Hurly is dead, how can he talk to dead people?

Just askin.

I don't want the Losties to be dead. :(

[Ohio Joe]

6. The statue is still up in 1867

odd...

[RockaFowler]

7. Not anymore

[Scout]

36. help me with this part....

the statue was standing as the black rock approached the island in the storm....

how the hell did the black rock demolish the statue like that? did it ride in on a huge wave and hit the statue, and that's how it ended up in the jungle instead of on shore?

[Ohio Joe]

8. Your going to have to kill the devil

Ha! Giant swerve there :D

[Ohio Joe]

9. Now that.... I can do

heh, too funny

[tishaLA]

10. One of the best episodes ever

It was like a never ending Christmas stocking....more surprises and presents than you could ever anticipate.

[charlie and algernon]

11. well, they just answered the two biggest questions tonight

what the island is and why they are there.
It's the gateway to hell and the losties need to keep it closed.

So the last 7 episodes will be playing that out.

[XemaSab]

40. Assuming anyone was telling the truth

:P

[underpants]

12. Original sin & predetermination vs. free will

sorry I was away (Comcast sucks) when I figured it out

that and the magnets....always with the magnets

you are welcome

[XemaSab]

22. Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism

[Fleshdancer]

14. It's going to take me days to process this one.

my head hurts. :wow:

[graywarrior]

15. It's all starting to come together or starting to fall apart....whatever

Unfuckingbelievable

[elleng]

16. Missed it again, so have to catch up (after NCAA!)

Sounds VERY interesting!

[Bucky]

17. It was all pretty much what I expected of Richard. (the most important post in this thread)

I liked the episode, but didn't love it. My socks were not rocked.

We knew Richard came to the Black Rock in chains, we knew he got immortality, we knew something traumatic had to happen in his life to get him to the island and make him a pawn in the Jacob vs MIB eternal war. It only makes sense he got pulled into that conflict once he arrived. I wouldn't have guessed the Canary Islands, although knowing a little bit about their history it makes sense. (Before Spain subdued the Aztecs and wiped out the Incas, they enslaved and slaughtered the native Canarians, all with Papal sanctions of course, but this was long before 1867). It was nice to see Hurley speaking Spanish... a skill they hinted at way back in Season 1 with the comic book Walt found. But overall, nothing really surprised me this episode.

I'm a little disappointed to find out Charles Widmore is fighting on the side of the angels (maybe literally!). I still assume Smokey's gonna beat the crap out of him and probably sink the sub right before Sawyer & Kate can get on it. Or right after, forcing them to escape by using the torpedo tubes, with Sayid making a noble last minute sacrifice by being the one to fire the torpedoes while Kate, Sawyer, and Claire escape.

Some of the revelations about Jacob were good to finally see, but again this was all along the lines they've been leading us to expect since the season began. Jacob's (and Smokey's) origins are the big reveal we're waiting for. Are they Egyptian gods? Angels guarding the Island of Eden? Biblical nephalim?

Also, how are they going to bring Libby back? It's likely she was working for Charles, or for some reason keeping tabs on Hurley from way back--at least two years before the Oceanic crash. She's the only Tailie not to have gotten a flashback, but I'm certain they're gonna bring her back for at least one cameo--maybe when they make Hurley Jacob's replacement.

Bottom line: Vincent is still Smokey McMIB's number one agent saboteur, and thus Vincent must die.


 

[Tommy_Carcetti]

78. Not sure about Libby, but I know Ana Lucia is coming back. My guess (not a spoiler):

She's Jack's ex-wife and mother of his son in the alternate timeline.

I don't know why I'm thinking that, but that's my guess and I'm bookmarking this reply when I find out I'm right.

[grace0418]

19. Huh... I'm not sure how I feel about this coming down to a

basic battle between good and evil, especially with the concept of hell thrown in. I think I'm a bit disappointed. I'm not sure what I was expecting or wanting, and a certain supernatural element surely seemed obvious, but hell? I feel kinda...meh about that.

[XemaSab]

23. I don't think it's good vs. evil

I think it's all about predestination versus free will.

Did anyone ever have free will to change their own fates, or was it all laid out beforehand?

This is where the sideways-flashes come into play.

[grace0418]

25. I see your point. However, I wish

hell hadn't been brought into it. It's probably because of my personal beliefs. I do think there are other planes of existence, perhaps even an afterlife. But hell has always seemed like a stupid concept to me, made up to scare people into being good. Stories tend to lose something for me when they introduce hell as a key element.

[Goblinmonger]

32. Sure, but Jacob uses "Hell" as a thing he will understand

and immediately says that there are many different names for it and the one he gives is basically just "evil." I don't think the creators are saying this is a story about a physical Hell as described in Christian mythology but a broader concept of good vs evil and whether we are destined to be one or can choose. Hence Locke (though ironically the real Locke would be saying we are inherently good).

[Goblinmonger]

29. Many great, great stories are classic good v. evil.

Don't knock it. Star Wars kicks some serious ass and that's all that is.

I find the predestination vs. free will very compelling and I don't give a rat's ass about religion.

[grace0418]

38. I guess it's more the "Hell" introduction that bothers me more than the

classic good vs. evil story. Even with the MIB's explanation of hell/evil whatever, it still feels too... I don't know... something.

[Goblinmonger]

39. I get that, I guess. Just doesn't bother me, I suppose. n/t

[Jade Fox]

43. agree...

Seems a bit pat.

[Duer 157099]

21. Finally, I can say "that's the BEST episode of LOST ever"

Really, it was. Why'd they wait this long to finally do a really really good one???

[slay]

30. Really? I mean - really??

Unless I was wayyyy more high last night than I thought I was (hrmm - possible) it sucked. *on edit - ok sucked is too harsh a word but I agree with Bucky's post earlier in the thread - it did not blow me... away i suppose. heh.) Seemed too forced - it was like we HAD to have Richard explained to us right now! - the writing quality was sub-par compared to the rest of the season, and especially when compared to season 5. Also, even though these recent eps have focused on one or two characters per ep primarily, this was just (and I can't believe I'm saying this) too much Richard. Doh. Best thing about last night's ep - Titus Welliver returning to play the original (afawk) form of The Man In Black. (Awww yeah!) Unless you were being sarcastic in your post, you've convinced me though. Next time I'm sober, I'll try watchin the ep again and give it another chance. ;) :smoke: :evilgrin:

http://lost.cubit.net/assets_c/2009/03/Richard+Alpert-thumb-470x440-2252.jpg

[Duer 157099]

47. I was being serious

It could be simply because I was fascinated by Richard's character, and the fact that he was so fluent in Spanish. I had been expecting him to be much older though, by several hundred years.

And thanks for tipping me off about the Man in Black! I recognized him but could not place him, but when you called him Titus Welliver (me not knowing that's his name) I immediately recognized him from Deadwood (doesn't "Titus Welliver" sound like it should be a character's name in Deadwood?? But his name in that was Silas Adams, LOL).

Maybe I liked this episode because there wasn't so much of James' pained expression or Jack's conflicted life, or the other regular characters who just are no longer interesting to me?

It was different, and it finally began to tell the truth (maybe) about what's going on. I've been suspecting that Jacob maybe really is the evil one but now I just don't know. We'll see.

My only problem with this episode was when Jacob is asking Richard (Ricardus? Where'd that come from?) what he wants and after being denied the first 2 requests, asks for immortality! Freaking odd! "No, you can't have the love of your life back, but how'd you like to live forever with that pain, eh?" "Sure!"

[Goblinmonger]

65. You forgot one request of Richard:

1. I want my wife back--can't do that.
2. Absolve me of my sins so I won't go to hell when I die--can't do that
3. Then I want to live forever and never die--that I can do.

Richard assumes that his wife is in Heaven. He is not going to see her when he dies. He does not want to go to hell but knows he will because he killed a man. Living forever stops that from happening. It was a logical request from my perspective.

And I thought Richard's story was compelling. I understand why we had to get it all in one blast and not a little bit at a time over the seasons. I felt guilty for hating him at various points in the show. THat says a lot to me about the power of the episode.

[Duer 157099]

70. Good point about request number 2 leading to number 3

Honestly, my brain did not automatically make that connection like you did. Maybe I truly have gotten over that religion-instilled fear of death/hell. Or, the writers were not very good about making it clear to me.

But, now I see it, thanks.

[Goblinmonger]

71. I guess

the 3 years of Catholic seminary, despite my current atheism, made that one ring out. Every LOST episode I watch I feel like I miss about 500 things for every one that I catch.

[Yavin4]

84. There Have Been A Lot of Deadwood Alums on Lost

At least six Deadwood alums.

[Bucky]

60. I'm like that with a lot of their episodes. I always thought the Shannon gets shot ep was horrible

Upon rewatching it last week (yes, I'm going thru all five seasons) I had a totally different take on it. Maybe it's cause I no longer miss Shannon. I think it was the total shock of them killing someone who, by TV norms, had no business being killed. Once her brother died then by the immutable laws of television, she was supposed to live with survivor guilt. But no, they totally corked her six episodes into the second season.

Damn.

This show....

[XemaSab]

73. The episodes are good on the first watch

but they're REALLY good on the second watch.

A lot of stuff that seems random the first time suddenly makes sense the second time around.

And yes, I'm rewatching the episodes out of order, and enjoying them even more than if I was watching them in order. I feel like my ability to put things into context is sharpened by this approach.

Also, the beauty of the rewatch is that you have a better idea of who the people are, and which people are basically decent and which people are not so terrific.

[Duer 157099]

75. I do that too, watching things out of order

and I find the same thing, that it is probably really beneficial to the brain in that you have to work harder to make more connections.

I do the same thing with audio books, because I listen to them while going to sleep, and then wake up several chapters later, etc; and then skip back to the parts I missed the next night, etc.

I'm hoping it staves off Alzheimer's later on...

[MorningGlow]

24. Warning: Gloat inside

Cork! I was right! I was right! For ONCE I was right about something on this show! W00t! :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Goblinmonger]

26. As soon as he pulled out that cork

I said "Damnit, MorningGlow was right." Seriously. Luckily the rest of the family was in bed so they couldn't shake their head at my LOST obsession AND my DU "friends."

[MorningGlow]

44. Neat! I'm famous!

Okay not really but I'll retain my delusions for the next five minutes just because I feel like it. :P

[slay]

31. Wow you called that?

You called island = cork? Impressive. :applause: Lost nerds like us can appriciate shit like that. :evilgrin:

[MorningGlow]

45. I confess I had hints from E! Online

:blush:

[semillama]

34. Here's the big question that stems from the big answer

If the island is a cork, and it's to keep evil from getting out into the world, as in the wine bottle analogy, the question is - Which way is the "cork" facing? Is the world the Losties are from on the interior or exterior of the bottle? Because it sure seems like evil is out and about in the world they came from, pre-Oceanic Flight 815.

[charlie and algernon]

35. that's an interesting point

BUT, if they were on the inside of hell, Jacob wouldn't be all that concerned about them using free will to redeem themselves. If the Island, truly is a "cork" then it is BOTH inside and outside the bottle. That's why MIB can walk around the island like Jacob. So then if you can redeem yourself, you can essentially chose whether to be on the inside part of the cork, with the MIB or on the outside part of the cork with Jacob.

[XemaSab]

41. Interesting question

In the AU, the island is underwater, and it might not be functioning as a cork any more.

I would guess that there is less evil in the AU than there is in the main timeline, so what does that say?

[Goblinmonger]

66. Or in the AU

it is underwater because it is jammed even further into neck bottle. How about that one?

[MorningGlow]

46. Oooh I like that

Which reality? Good question.

[Duer 157099]

49. OK I'm going to go completely contrarian on this one

I think Jacob is the "evil" force and he's trying to prevent "good" from being let loose in the world.

Every biblical description of Satan is that he's a deceiver, he appears as an angel of light, that in the end days evil will appear good and good evil.

I think that's going to be the final big reveal.

[XemaSab]

51. For a supposedly "good" guy

he sure looks like a complete jerk.

He wanted to prove a point so he caused two plane crashes, two shipwrecks, a minor genocide, total Lord-of-the-Flies anarchy, and who knows how many other disasters?

Some "good" guy.

[Duer 157099]

52. Sounds just like the God of the Bible, actually

Remember Job? Lot? Noah?

The God of the Bible did some really, really nasty shit, and brags about it!

So, there's that.

[Goblinmonger]

67. I think that's too easy.

Good is bad and bad is good is not a novel twist. White being evil is soooo Moby Dick :evilgrin:

I think they are both going to be "good." I'm tempted to say both "evil" but if they were both evil then they'd just pop the cork.

[underpants]

50. Wow I didn't think the cork was THAT big of a deal

I thought it was just a set up for the what the rest of the show is going to be about...and has been about

which is predetermination vs. free will

[Goblinmonger]

68. I think that's what it's all about, too.

That and redemption which fits in nicely with free will.

[Yavin4]

85. Hey, Dick Cheney Is Still Walking Around

That cork aint really keeping out all that much evil.

[XemaSab]

48. To totally go off topic

DAMN everyone on LOST is pretty... SO pretty. :9

[Bucky]

58. That is evil tempting you.

There were plenty of homely people along the way, but they got killed. Hurley's the last of us.

[XemaSab]

69. You forgot Ben

[Fleshdancer]

77. I'd hit it

:D

[XemaSab]

80. I would too

:D

[Gabi Hayes]

53. wow...anybody else:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hW6Dm_m5t4

[cbayer]

54. I am still not convince that there is *good* and *evil* here. I think the battle is about

something else entirely.

The last scene was mindbending for me. To see these two supposed mortal enemies sitting together to discuss the situation was very intriguing.

:freak:

[Scout]

56. i've thought it was too obvious to have Jacob/man in white be the good guy

and Smokey/man in black be the bad guy.

either there's more to it than that, or Jacob will turn out to be more the bad guy in the long run.

:shrug:

[kick-ass-bob]

81. They sat together before

watching a old ship (Black Rock?) getting close (5th season). Jacob said 'you want to kill me, don't you' or something to that effect and the infamous line "It only ends once. Everything that comes before is just progress."

[RagAss]

55. Ram Dass?

[Gabi Hayes]

62. see post 53

[RagAss]

63. Cool !...just showing my age.

[Duer 157099]

57. Was I the only one who thought Richard and New Man in Black

looked suspiciously like Jeff Probst and Richard Hatch?

[Bucky]

61. Damn you.

Damn you to hell. Or to cork. Or whatever.

Speaking of which, when they said the island was a cork, I thought they meant the whole time they'd been stranded off the Irish coast.

[Duer 157099]

64. But why? Don't they?

They totally look like those guys!

[Tommy_Carcetti]

76. MIB as Richard Hatch definitely crossed my mind.

Didn't think of Alpert as Jeff Probst before, but then again, I haven't watched Survivor since the first season.

[Duer 157099]

79. Wouldn't it be funny if it all turned out as a metaphore for Survivor?

Alpert/Probst are the constants, the ones who are always there even as others come and go.

Richard Hatch was the "original" survivor, just as MIB seems to be the "original" MIB.

And the theme is the same: outplay, outwit, outlast on an island

Maybe the writers are not as creative as we've thought/hoped?

[Fleshdancer]

82. NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

it's sad because it's true. :cry:

[elocs]

74. Yes, he was also Batmanuel on "The Tick":

[soleft]

83. Captain Hanso

Didn't catch that until I watched it a second time.

Know what would be cool - if each of the surviving candidates were shown their alternate life and given a choice of taking the job, or their alternate life.

That's why my money is still on Sawyer to be the new Jacob.

[Yavin4]

86. Hanso Industries Funded The Dharma Inititative

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pow4TqoTkP0

[soleft]

87. Yes

[elleng]

88. No Exit.

Hell is Other People.


{Sartre}