Need some workplace bullying advice

[rainbow4321]

I know, a long rant, but I desperately need advice.

Background:
Little over a year ago a co worker called me into a room to "talk" about a disagreement we were having one evening at work--she was essentially referring everyone who needed help with patient care to me even though I already had a few other tasks on my plate, emptying her plate onto mine and getting mad when I said "um, no, I won't do it all".
Instead of talking, she used her torso to push me up against a wall, raised her fist to me, and blocked the door to keep me from leaving.
I yelled help at the top of my lungs, she backed down. I insisted on the police being called afterwards. We ended up in a session with the police, my manager, and asst. manager (who was there that evening). She lied thru her teeth about everything, gave a performance worthy of an Oscar in front of everyone, and in the end we were both given warnings and signed something that said if there was anymore trouble between the 2 of us, we would both be let go.
Fastforwarding thru the months, I've had to deal with her still being pissed over her actions being outted and questioned. She's done the whole "snake in the grass" stuff, rude/condescending to me, talking trash to others about me, dumping work on me when she has time to do it herself, all while being innocent and "poor me" iin front of management. I make a point of not giving her any ammunition
or verbal grief that she could hold against me or report me for.
I talk to her when it is about patient care but that's it. I have no desire to sit and socialize with her as I do with others at work. Clear cut we are talking for work related stuff only.
I was called into a meeting a few weeks ago where she falsely accused me of taking breaks and not telling her. She went onto say in front of management that she cannot stand to be in a room with me, that it disturbs her to see me talk to other co workers, and that the only thing that will make her satisfied is if I were to be fired from work. All this was said in front of the boss and asst. boss. She complained that we don't communicate, that there is too much tension between us. Boss did nothing during the meeting when she made those comments, just went onto other things and ended the meeting with " I will pray for the 2 of you"
We then get ordered into a clinic wide staff meeting because 3 staff people wrote anon. notes saying that being around the "two of us" gives off tense vibes. I insisted that specific situations be given so I can help recollect what was happening during those instances. I don't want "sit there and defend yourself over a general, vague, anonomyous accusations." No one in the room would speak up except her..she looks around at the staff and says "help me out here, I'm drowning". I ask her directly for specific examples. She looks away, won't answer me. Instead, she gets up, runs out of the room crying. The only 2 examples that one person gave was HER using a go between to give me a message because she didn't want to talk to me and another instance where the co worker felt SHE held a grudge too long because when she asked a **group** of us a question one morning, no one answered her (because none of us knew the answer to her question).


It was a bad day at work today, I had several fires burning that needed to be put out, I was helping other people triage patients and give them shots, had to investigate wrong orders given to me about a patient. I went and asked her if I could use a room for a specific patient treatment. Was I frazzled and having overwhelming multitasking issues? Yes. Did I sound a little gruff when I asked her and another co worker for a room to use. Probably. Was it at ALL related or driven by our **dynamics**? No. It was a heat of the moment tone of voice--tired, worn out, being torn in 3 different patient care issues at once.
Instead of asking me directly why I sounded stressed and frustrated, she runs to management and tells them I am still being difficult, that I was rude to her and unprofessional. Had she asked me and said it offended her, I would have apologized left and right and explained it was not her I was upset with. But she, instead, wrote a nastygram to the boss about me.

So, NOW, it appears my boss is trying to bundle this with our past, asking me to put in writing what happened, my boss wrote HER boss saying that counseling me is in order, that I don't accept ownership of my behavior, that I may be someone who discreetly causes problems at work. Basically, saying "these 2 have had problems in the past and now look what happened today, she apparently got rude".

So I submitted "my version" in writing. Tomorrow we are supposed to talk about what happened.
Any counseling done to me is going to be directly submitted to human resources.

I am at my wits end. I guess I knew all along things would go her way in the end, she has been there 10 years and has management so wrapped around her finger, to a point where it is almost like they are afraid to confront her or see thru her snake in the grass behavior.

So tell me, DUers..how do I approach this tomorrow? Keep in mind all of these in the trenches dynamics are kept well away from anyone outside our setting, it all stops with my boss. The clinic group even asked to bring in outside therapists to council us as a group and the boss said no way, no hell, this all stays within our immediate area.

[rucky]

1. Your boss did not take the violent act seriously.

I'd focus on that. It's the root of all the other other problems.

You could even have a case against the clinic for not providing you a safe workplace after your reports of violence were met back with a threat to YOU to make peace over something you were a victim of.

See an attorney ASAP.

[rainbow4321]

2. I made a paper trail with the police

after she made the comments about not being able to handle being in the same room with me (admitted that it bothered her so much she had to leave the room and go decompress somewhere), along with the stuff about how it bothered her to see me *talk* to other co workers, and her saying that she would only be satsified if I was made to quit.

I put in the email (which I also sent to my home email and also a relative so it would all be timestamped) that it had me worrying about my safety at work...if someone would admit to those three things right in FRONT of the management team, what is that person capable of saying or doing when no one is around. I wrote that I felt a need for the police to put my email about the meeting in the file that they have on that first physical attack, told them that if something were to happen to me at or after work and I was either NOT around anymore or was incapacitated and unable to tell about the meeting, it would be in the file for them to refer to. I told them I was notifying my family of it all, so they would know what was going on.

The facility is county owned, so when I say the police, it's not just hospital security rent a officer, it is the actual city police department. All I could think of was, the facility will pull a "we will not share private employee information or meeting minutes" so I thought/hoped that by putting on the email on file with the police, there would be a public record of it all IF something, heaven forbid, did happen and she got physically aggressive again. As of now, she seems to be focusing more on mental harrassment.

I ended the email to the police with "I just want to know once and for all that I am safe at work".

I just wish this would end..I keep telling myself that eventually she will be exposed and they will see her as the agitator, that I just have to wait it out.

[PassingFair]

41. Don't forget to mention her "I'll pray for you two" comment as a viable solution to this situation.

I'm serious.

You will never last there once you've
tampered with their authoritarian
pecking order.

Follow advice and get an attorney ASAP.

[Chan790]

3. Paint her into a corner...

go into your counseling and deny you have a problem with her. Claim you have no idea what her problem is with you. State that you have no issues working with her. Smile a lot. Say nothing but nice things about her to 3rd parties. When she complains about you, shrug. When you get called into meetings about this use the "I feel...when you...because..." form to make concise positivist statements because it allows you to be critical without being aggressive or assigning blame. "I feel sad when you push all your work off on me because I have my own work to do and it harms the patients." for example.

Basically, put it into a situation where HR forces them to let her go because she's the squeaky wheel who can't work with you. That is, make the issue unilateral. Given a long enough curve, HR will fire her for being disruptive.

[rainbow4321]

5. Tried that..

And I was being honest at the time..when I went into one of the last meetings with her and the boss I said to them "I have no idea what she is talking about, I haven't noticed any tension or felt tense around her, as far as I know, we aren't having communication problems and as far as any of these unsigned, vague notes from 3 staff people, I need specific scenarios from them and her."

This is what boss has said about me because I said there were no problems on my end and didn't know what the bullying co worker was talking about:

"The employee that says "there is no problem" is being subtle yet disruptive, has no
ownership and is creating an antagonistic relationships in the workplace"

THAT, boss said, is the advice of the Employee Assistance Program office about *me*. That is the office that is "available" to employees if they feel a need to talk to someone about personal problems, work problems, need personal or family counseling, etc...
Keep in mind no one in that office has ever so much as called me, seen me, had any communication with me. Nothing. I feel like calling them myself and asking if a Dr Frist works there.

My boss is going out of town so I will be left to talk to my boss' boss tomorrow to see if I need to be "counseled". And the above is what she sent him about me. Yeah, let's put these pre-conceived ideas in his head from the EAP even though the EAP has never even sat and talked with this employee.

I really feel like I am being set up here, by the bully and my boss, going into this potential counsel session.


Are all bullies this crazy?? She even got angry when I referred to the assault scenario as being two years ago when it was apparently a year ago. That is how little thought I have put into that day, can't even remember when it took place..she was mad because I didn't remember the exact month and year. SO the person who did the assault remembers and the person who was assaulted couldn't have named a month/year if her life depended on it.

[guitar man]

4. When she leaves work

And you are both well off company property, follow her discreetly until she's down a dark alley or some other suitably secluded place. Then pull a sack down over her head and beat the living piss out of her. :grr:

sorry,I don't have better advice I don't do subtle and nuanced very well :evilgrin:

[abq e streeter]

6. Out of left field here, but offer to take a polygraph and challenge her to do the same

making sure to include the original physical intimidation in the questions. I know very little about polygraph tests and the details of how they work, and like I said, just throwing out an idea. I think Rucky's idea of seeing an attorney ASAP is a very good one before you do anything else. Maybe ask them (attorney) about whether a polygraph/with challenge of her doing the same is a good idea. They may very well say it's a terrible idea, but maybe wouldn't hurt to at least ask them.

[blogslut]

7. Here's my suggestion

Tonight, find an online floral delivery service. Schedule a lovely bouquet of flowers to be delivered to her @ work, in your name. Schedule it for when you're both there and before this meeting you're talking about. Have the florist write something sappy on the card like:

"I don't know how we ended up this way but I am willing to do anything to make it right. I respect you and value you. If I have hurt you, I am sorry. Let's put the past behind us and start today on a good path."

And then, treat her like she's the most wonderful person in the world, no matter what she does or says.

Kill. Her. With. Very. Public. Kindness.

[Mopar151]

8. There is some good advice here:

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/serial.htm#Types

What you are talking about happened to me +/-, about 10 years ago. Lost the best job of my life. I would also reccomend a book called "Odd Girl Out". by Rachel Simmons - anyone in a management position should read this.
IMHO, your "problem" is that you refuse to take "your place" in the bully's acolytes - If you end up in mandated counseling, be sure to bring some of this material along - and talk about your desire to maintain correct, professional relationships with your co-workers, and not dysfunctional ones, based on their patholigies.

[rainbow4321]

11. Thanks for the info

They use the word council to mean get written up and put in your file. I've probably have been spelling it wrong in my posts. They said any council or write ups have to be stamped by human resources first. I guess so the worker knows it's gone as far as the hiring and firing dept.

Of course, in my mind, I'm wondering where was the eagerness to get them involved when she was making her comments in front of the boss about me??
I even got her to admit to yelling at a new employee who was asking her questions and she explained it away by saying learning curves can cause problems and the worker she yelled at was OK with it and wasn't upset anymore. And she said all of this in front of the boss as well.
She almost takes on an alpha dog role and will destroy anyone in her path who is not ok with mental abuse and demeaning treatment.


The bully here seems to be driven solely by the fact I got the police involved back then and that it didn't turn out to be just another off the radar bullying moment for her.

[amerikat]

9. You will look back on this situation someday

and realize you did the wrong thing. You can't rationalize with a nut case bully.
Been there done that. My personal opinion..........the law won't help you, and neither will the
company you work for.

Good luck, fight back.

If I had it to over again, I would have no sympathy for the bad people.

Truth.

[soleiri]

10. I'd ask

How safe would you feel with a co-worker that threatened to assault you and no one believed you?

Tell her (or him) that you own your behavior, and it stems from her initial assault and her lies and bullying.
Tell them that you have attempted to put it in the past, but she continues to bully.

imo, speaking to a therapist would not be a bad idea, especially if she does, too.
Most therapists can see through bullshit, especially if it's academy award winning performances.

[jotsy]

12. Sounds like an ugly thing to add to an intense work load.

And I'm sorry you're going through this, but I probably don't have good news to report in my observations. If you're at the top of the pay scale for the kind of work you do, there's a chance that a decision has already been made to make you want to be gone. If that's the case and the only reason I suggest it might be, is to address how you might doubt yourself as a result, don't.

If I'm wrong and that's not what's up here...

I'd speak to your exasperation of the moment employing terms that veer far from hostile and speak to tension and overwhelming task lists. Maintain your position as having tried to be contributing to a peaceful coexistence, and that you love your work and feel you've done a good job, (if these things of course are true). I say if there's real bureaucratic b.s. here, folks will try to walk you back to this being your fault and should you resist that notion, they'll be patronizing to your emotional nature. Once again, don't let 'em. Keep cool, your opposition is all about making you look like the problem, if you don't go there, maybe she'll reveal that she is, out of frustration over not rattling you.

I don't envy the spot you're in, good luck.

[raccoon]

13. First off, let me say I feel your pain. I've been in several workplace bullying

situations.

First off, learn all you can about workplace bullying. There's a lot on the net.

See a lawyer who specializes in employment related cases. Preferably a barracuda lawyer.

Also document, document, document, and KEEP THE DOCUMENTATION at home--away from work!

Two things workplaces don't like: legal action, and bad publicity.

Don't assume HR is your friend. Tim Field, a Brit who did a lot to bring workplace bullying into public awareness, said HR's main function is to keep the employer out of court.

Be totally civil to the bullying bitch in the presence of witnesses, and in any emails you send to her. BTW, I think sending your email to a relative & yourself was a good idea.

Another thing I commend you for is asking these other co-workers for SPECIFICS--when did this happen that YOU SAY happened? Continue to demand specifics! Something I wish I had known years ago. Once a bullying boss made up a flat out lie about me, saying that customers said they'd rather not deal with me. When I asked for specifics, of course she couldn't give them. Wish I had then documented that in writing, and emailed it to appropriate people.

Others have already suggested some of these things. Best of luck to you!

[HEyHEY]

14. Have you spoken to other employees to see if they're getting it too?

[rainbow4321]

15. Oh they get it, too but not to the extent

that I do.
There was a reason when we were in the full staff meeting that when she asked for people to be in lockstep with her that not a single person spoke up. That's when she said "help me out here people I'm drowning".
Sitting there, I knew. I knew the same people who she was turning to support her were the same ones who often refer to her as "the warden" and "your mother said you better..."
So yeah they all have seen that side of her. But as I said,I seem to be the biggest threat to her with it all stemming back to me calling the police on her the day she cornered me in a room and got physically aggressive.

Having said that, thank you to everyone for responding..I'm at work and my day is about to begin. Time to put up the blackberry and head in to all of this.
Thank you all again

[applegrove]

16. Try the bullyonline site.

http://www.bullyonline.org/

[undeterred]

17. Unfortunately, few managers know how to handle this.

You have correctly identified this as bullying. I would even call it aggravated bullying, since it started with a physical assault.

Some Human Resources departments are educated on bullying. When I was in a situation where I was being bullied by another woman, about 6 years ago, I finally discussed it in great detail with the HR person from the agency that placed me. They pulled me out of the situation and kept me on the payroll until I found another job. The HR person had to educate all of the managers involved on what bullying is, because they always try to make it a 50:50 situation that makes both people equally responsible.

Is there anyone outside of the situation you can go to? A trained HR person should recognize this for what it is. When my situation was identified, it turned out that the bully had been moved from job to job by her union several times because of complaints. After the situation with me she was moved again to a job where she would have limited contact with other people.

Sometimes things work out, but you have to be prepared to get out of there. Once I was out I felt so much better. Being bullied is horrible.

The people in the situation just want it to be over. The person bullying you just wants to win by having you gone.

I hope it goes well tomorrow.

[mnhtnbb]

18. Is this your dream job? Do you love what you do except for

working with this woman?

You have to recognize that this woman isn't going to change. Management may
be afraid of her and unwilling to do the necessary work to let her go. (I am the voice
of experience on that--as an assistant hospital administrator many years ago I was
given the job of counseling/documenting/letting go three different poorly performing
department heads who had all been there a very long time--one of whom had a rep as 'crazy', and I succeeded. It was a bitch making it happen.)
I assume you are not in a "right to work" state or she would be long gone, since all the tough work of documentation/counseling isn't necessary. If she's been there 10 years, you can bet you aren't her first victim.

You have several ways to go with this. I love the idea of publicly
killing her with kindness--if you are determined to continue working
there.

Is it possible to request a transfer to another location where you wouldn't
encounter her? Or work different days to minimize exposure to her?

You will see that what I'm suggesting is for YOU to find a way to change
either how you relate to her or the frequency with which you encounter her, if
you are convinced that management isn't going to really deal with her bullying.

Then, there is always getting out the resume and looking for another position.
Since you are in health care, you may have some options that many people these days
don't have when jobs aren't available in their field.

Good luck.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

19. Maybe this is a

signal from the Universe. Get out of there. Some battles just aren't winnable.... :shrug:

[WolverineDG]

20. I was in a similar situation

I was *always* the bad guy, *always* causing problems, *always* being rude, in short, *always* the target of anyone who decided they wanted to kick someone in the ass & get away with it since it was well known throughout the organization that *NO ONE* would back me up, even if there was bullet-proof evidence they were lying their asses off.

*NOTHING* I did ever improved the situation. I closed the door to my office & had nothing to do with anyone in the office personally anymore. I was polite to everyone, even the assholes who openly treated me like shit. I did my work, I volunteered (stupid move on my part) for more work in a vain effort to show I was a "team player." I was always called upon to "take one for the team," but strangely, the "team" never took one for me, even when I was in the hospital for a month (almost worked myself to death). Didn't matter what I did, if someone wanted to kick my ass, they would & get away with it.

I ended up quitting last year because I just couldn't take it anymore. Now the organization is stuck with an office that has 5 attorneys & 4 paralegals that don't do shit but sit around all day on their thumbs & collect their paychecks. They claim they can't find anyone to do all the stuff I was doing & can't seem to make the ones who are there do it either, yet somehow it is STILL all MY fault for leaving & putting them in this situation. :wtf: :crazy:

If you can, find another job. Otherwise, you will just go insane &/or get physically ill from having to deal with all that crap at work. You deserve a lot better.

[rainbow4321]

25. Yep...that's the scenario..to a T

You get the feeling if one of them walked up to you and punched you in the face right in front of management, you would be written up for running into their fist.

For a while I was doing write ups about HIPAA violations, needle safety, equipment safety, and other legit stuff..I started doing those because it became painfully clear that if I "just" told the immediate manager about my findings, I was brushed off as being a pest and nothing was changed.
So I turned to making out online reports that would automatically go to both my immediate boss as well was the QA dept. The QA dept then calls the immediate boss and says
WHAT are YOU doing to fix this problem. Amazing how things get addressed and resolved when that dept. gets word of what is going wrong.
So I think part of the problem is management resentment about that but everything I did was in the best interest of patient safety..right down to no one changing the filter in the breathing treatment machine in forever instead of doing it monthly. Everything I reported was a legit safety/health/pt privacy issue.

Staffers take extended lunches, use their cell phones non stop, disappear for unexplained periods of time, literally sit around and do crossword puzzles. All while a handful of us try to keep the pt care going smoothly.
Say anything about this stuff and you are then the pariah.
We were literally told in a meeting that everyone should "just come and do your own work, do it the best you can do, and NOT pay attention to what OTHER people are doing".
Nothing like giving the green light to the offenders and discouraging everyone else who is having to pick up the slack.

I stayed there only because I loved the patients and the care I was giving.
Hindsite, I should have thrown in the towel a while back.

[WolverineDG]

27. That's why I stayed too

because if I wasn't there handling the family law & DV cases, I knew no one else would & victims wouldn't be able to get any help at all. And it turns out, sadly, that I was right. It pisses me off, though, that this organization gets most of its funding from the state & federal government, so we are literally paying them to sit on their asses.

But at some point, you come first. You've done what you could & it's obvious no one else really cares (or *something* would have been done), so for your own sake, perhaps it's time to move on.

dg

[foxfeet]

21. Some good advice already posted.

I would emphasize:
HR is there to protect the organization, not to protect you.

Consult with an attorney who has expertise in employment law. Even if you don't retain the attorney for ongoing action, the price of a consultation will be well worth the expense.

Consider filing a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), be sure to tell them that you were physically assaulted and menaced and called the police to protect yourself. Tell them that, since that incident, you have been subjected to retaliation and to a hostile work environment that your employer has failed to correct.

Continue to document everything.

I wish you good luck and success.

[MicaelS]

22. Contact an attorney,

That is the best advice I can give.

[Curmudgeoness]

23. Let us know what happens with that little talk.

I would like to know how it goes.

Apparently, there is no other department that you can ask for a transfer to? That would have been what I would have done to get away from this person. Wishing you well, and hope that things go well for you. But it doesn't sound promising in this situation.

[rainbow4321]

24. It's not going well..I've seen the termination paperwork

I got to work Friday and saw the manager there in her office and the asst manager go in with her notepad from hell ( never a good sign).
I waited til mid morning cuz no one was saying anything even though I had sent my requested response to the manager.
Asst. manager told me when I asked what was happening "I don't know anything yet, we'll let you know later".

What she didn't realize is I was able to locate (don't ask) the write up about me.."recommended action: termination". My manager left to go out of the country within an hour of making this decision, telling a boss higher up the food chain and the asst manager to do the dirty work. It was just a matter of waiting til the end of the day, I assume, to call me in for the meeting. Manager wrote that she wanted it done ASAP instead of waiting til she returned in a week.

So between finding this out and my asst manager denying knowing anything I got a little stressed. I started feeling weird. Had a co worker take my BP.

My blood pressure had shot up to 170/110, I started feeling tingling all over, and was having a hard time concentrating.
They wanted to take me to the ER but I pretty much told the asst manager and someone else "I won't be having a job OR insurance in about 4 hours...an ER or hospital bill is not what I want to deal with". The wait alone in the ER would have lasted til much later in the day if not til the evening.
So I had someone drive me up to a doc in the box in my neighborhood. My BP was back down to normal so they didn't give me any meds..basically paid a co pay to be told "keep a record of your BP and come back, and try to stay away from stress.

So what is going to happen is it will all come down on Monday..it's just a matter of if they will do it in the beginning of the day or pull another "come in here, please right before I clock out.

After that...I'll be job hunting...and I have no idea how another company will look upon any termination in my recent background.
Do I tell them it was a case of workplace safety and bullying gone badly? I don't even know what to say, or if anyone will give be the benefit of the doubt enough to hire me.
I keep going from periods of denial to crying jags this weekend.

If I could afford to, I'd go and talk to an attorney to get this firing looked at as me being someone who was trying to get workplace safety/harassment addressed to no avail as management ignored my requests. Why if both me and the bully signed paperwork saying if anything were to happen between us we would BOTH be fired, yet here I am the only one fired.

Management heard her say right in front of them that she was having anger problems JUST from being the same room with me--admitting that she had to leave the room because of those feelings. She admitted getting angry when I would talk to coworkers and that she wanted me gone from the clinic.
ALL of those comments showing, IMO, a threatening mindframe, and she is getting off scot free.

What I would give to have some of these people subpoenaed.

But that is not an option.


THANK you to everyone here who has responded..it means a great deal to me and is helping me thru this weekend.

[Curmudgeoness]

26. I don't care how you do it, get to a laywer. Really.

And hopefully before they have the chance to talk to you. Can you call in sick Monday? Call an attorney? I don't know what you should do right now, but you should have an expert tell you how to handle it.

Personally (and I get myself into trouble with my actions so take it as such), I would quit before they were able to talk to me and actually fire me. I base this on your comment that you saw the recommendation to fire you in writing already.

And from my experience, they will probably not tell any prospective employer that you were fired, or what their reasons for it are. That is, in HR-land, an invitation for a lawsuit. They stay away from it.

God, I feel so bad for you. I hope all turns out for the best.

[rainbow4321]

29. The whole employee reference thing bothers me only

because I don't know what they say in their references. Would it be a "name, hire/left dates" kinda thing or is it that info and a "not eligible for re-hire and she was about to be fired, anyway" thing.
I just wonder:
Can they still say I was terminated if I resign before they get me into a meeting to terminate me?
Because I would rather have to explain a "she resigned but is not rehireable"--at least I could try and explain to a new job why I left in roundabout terms (wanting to get away from unsafe workplace practices, etc..).

I'd call in on Monday if I knew that I could get a lawyer to see me that same day...I'm worried I will take off, make phone calls and get a bunch of "we'll see you later this week" responses.

I've googled employment reference information but they are pretty vague on what legally a former job can share.

[Love Bug]

31. Whatever you do, do not resign. They will then deny you unemployment benefits.

If they fire you, they can contest the UI benefits, but you have the right to appeal. Then you can bring out that copy of the police report and the other documentation and make your case with the UI people.

Also, if you can get your hands on the copies of all the instances where you reported where your company failed to protect patient safety by complying with regulations re HIPAA, changing filters, etc., the licensing entity of your state might be interested in seeing those. You can probably make the case that your boss retaliated against you because you reported this internally, especially seeing how they have taken no action against the bully coworker.

Legally, all a former employer can share with a potential employer are the dates of your employment. As far as what you tell potential employers about why you were let go, that is something you can work out later. There is lots of advice online for handling all kinds of difficult scenarios in job interviews.

[rainbow4321]

39. The state I'm in has a unemp ins. denial for firing with cause

And they have listed a "cause".

Unfortunely I don't have copies of the safety reports that I have handed in because they are all done online and go directly to QA. I don't know, but I have a feeling, that these reports aren't accessable by outside agencies? Or if the outside regulatory agencies can say "hand them over".

[Curmudgeoness]

42. Where I work, I am the one who has to give references, and

I have been advised that I only confirm that they worked there, and give dates. I am not to say anything about why they left and I am to keep my tone of voice neutral as well. This comes from our attorney, and I am sure that most places do the same thing. In fact, we are a small organization, so a bigger one would know even more about it.

As to UI, you can quit a job in my state and still qualify if you left for certain reasons. One would be a hostile work environment and bullying. If at any time you felt that your license was in danger, that is also a reason to leave. You would have to check with your states unemployment agency. They have all this info online usually. Do some research now before you make any decisions. Get those ducks in a row so you can be empowered.

And last but not least, I have been fired from one job, and it did not really cause undue problems. Not what I had expected.

[WolverineDG]

28. Just read this after responding to your post

Sorry for the termination. What assholes! Oh well, it will come back to haunt them one day, you know that amount of lackadaisical management always does.

:hug: from someone who has been there, done that. Fuck 'em all. Onward & upward to bigger & better things!!

dg

[rainbow4321]

30. I think/hope I've come up with an idea

After 24 hours of sitting on the pity pot I've decided to take control of this...to be the on the offense instead of defense, hopefully.

Given that I have seen the termination papers but they have yet handed them to me and had me sign them:
Write up my resignation letter, citing health reasons related to the ongoing work safety issues that I have addressed with them in emails and a letter to the police dept that I had concerns about my welfare at work.
I was still at work on Friday when they checked my BP and it was roughly around 170/110 and I was having tingling all over along with the concentration/focusing issues.
I'll have to think of some good on the offense writing/verbage, but essentially I will say that because management has allowed this to go on and there is no sign of them taking the reins to curb the bully or accusations against me, it is in the best interest of my personal health and my professional reputation that I resign immediately from my position.
Throw in there somewhere: as evidenced by my hypertensive crisis last week in which I was about to be sent to the ER for the life threatening symptoms I was having...blah, blah, blah.
"It is with a heavy heart that I leave the patient population that I have proudly and professionally served over the last three years"...blah blah blah.

Even if they tell a future employer I am not rehireable, at least it will be a "she resigned" and I can tell any future job the truth...there were workplace ethics and safety concerns I had and it was taking a personal and physical toll on me so I made the difficult choice of leaving.


And I know legal advice probably falls under the same deal here at DU as giving out health advice, so I want it to be clear that I am NOT assuming anyone knows the right answer here and is offering me definitive legal advice.

But in ya'lls non legal eagles' opinions, how does this sound??

[pitohui]

32. this is the worst thing you can do and will destroy you

if you resign you don't get unemployment insurance, of course, your enemy would LOVE it if you destroy yourself and your future like that

get a damn lawyer and meanwhile let them fire you so that they have to give you unemployment

you should have been talking to a lawyer today, not to your invisible friends on the internet

you may never work again if you resign for reasons of bad health, who would hire you in a job with benefits? plenty of older folk are here to tell you nobody wants a woman over 40 or a man over 50 as a new addition to their company health insurance program -- i don't know your age but since you're fretting about your blood pressure i make assumptions that you're older

you need to get a lawyer, get unemployment benefits if you are terminated, and see what additional damages you may be entitled to

i don't know who is right or wrong here, i think you screwed the pooch from day one by escalating a workplace argument into a matter where you called the police but IF your safety was really at risk, i dunno what choice you had except, right then, why did you sign a paper saying you were both at fault and that if anything else happened you would both be fired? you should have said, that day, you're not signing anything your lawyer hasn't read

you've let the bully have her fun for a long, long time, and now you want to resign when you could be fired, cheating yourself of thousands of dollars that you'll need while looking for a new job?

what the hell is the matter w. people? i'm sorry to yell but surely you must see that you have been behaving in an extremely self destructive manner, getting the vapors and running to the doc in a box because you saw the termination papers wasn't the brightest move going...unless you were actually going to use that time to see a lawyer not the doc who just rolled eyes and pointed out that your blood pressure was fine

if i sound a bit testy here, it's because i hate to see people destroy themselves and hand a big win to bullies

see a lawyer, NEVER resign until you have a better job offer, and if you're fired, don't sign ANY FUCKING THING until the lawyer reads it and is satisfied w. your separation agreement -- and make sure you get all your back holiday pay too!

stand up for yourself for a change, you should have called a lawyer the day that management said you were "both" at fault for the other woman threatening to hit you...she's been there 10 years, she's obv. sleeping w. or related to somebody powerful, you needed someone powerful on your side too

[dmr]

34. Best advice

Call in sick Monday & try to find a lawyer. Tell them on the phone that you urgently need help as you are facing termination as soon as you report to work. My bet is someone will see you Monday or Tuesday (which means you'll prob have to call in sick again.)

Have the attorney advise you of your rights. Follow the attorney's advice.

If you choose to just resign, do not include in your resignation letter, (or state verbally) the toxic workplace reasons. Don't give them any ammo that they can use against you later. Don't let them know what you are thinking or how you plan to proceed unless it is advised by an attorney.

Take all the emotion out of it, and be clinical or business-like on how you handle this. They are banking on you being emotional & possibly irrational. Don't give them that.

When you look for other work, this employer will prob just verify your employment, and nothing else. My hospital's (I'm now retired) policy was to only give employment dates to prospective employers. They got burnt one time when some asshat manager gave a bad reference that an ex-employee was incompetent. !!! Yup, actually said that.

See an attorney. Don't resign. If terminated, accept gracefully. Sign nothing. Don't tell them (or tell fellow co-workers because word will get back to management) your plans that you may have an attorney involved. Give them no ammo. Blindside them later with your attorney.

Just be cool, calm & collective. Professional.

Look for another job. Ask your attorney what to say when asked about why you terminated your last job. Whatever you do, do not go into detail because they will wonder if you would be a problem employee for them.

Good luck.
:hi:

[mnhtnbb]

35. This is good advice.

[rainbow4321]

37. Two words..WITH CAUSE

As in "terminated with cause".

Those words will keep me from getting unemployment insurance. That, FYI, is the first thing I did after this happened. I went to my states unemployment website.
So I am not screwing myself out of any money if I quit before termination.

And I would love to be able to afford to go hire an attorney first thing in the morning. Unfortunately I don't have the money for anything more than a free consult. There will be no followup visits because I don't HAVE the $$. What money I do have will be going towards bills until I get another job.

I live in a right to work state and we have no union.

As for you the rest of your post...letting myself get bullied and assaulted, choosing a doctor over a lawyer when my blood pressure was dangerously high while having potential stroke symptoms...and so on. Think I will go read some of the posts with constructive criticism.

[WolverineDG]

33. well, I don't know much about employment law

so maybe I fall into the non-legal column ;)

anyway, do your best to rephrase the "management never did anything" because even though it is true, you don't want to sound like a whiner. :)

dg

[Phentex]

40. I don't understand...

I am not trying to be obtuse here but I don't see the reasoning behind this.

You state above you are willing to explain to a potential employer your reasons for leaving. If you are dubbed "not rehireable" I doubt the fact that you resign will have any bearing on that. Wouldn't it be better to be fired and explain that you believe it was without justifiable cause and you just didn't have the money to go after them? Couldn't you ask them to talk to other references and look at your qualifications?

Resigning and tossing around the health issues and emails won't mean anything to your employer unless you plan to follow up with a case against them and as someone else said, it will just look whiny. And I would not mention it to a future employer because they won't want to touch it with a ten foot pole without an actual lawsuit won on your behalf.

It seems to me that if you can't afford to fight them, it's best to let them fire you in any case so you won't look like a quitter.

Good luck. I hate that it has come down to this for you but without a huge trail of paperwork and some legal help, I don't know what else you can do.

[LiberalEsto]

38. Call the local Bar Association

and ask for a referral to a lawyer who handles this type of issue.
What you will get is a consultation for a reasonable price. Our county BA charges $40.

This lawyer should be able to advise you on whether you have enough for a legal case, or tell you what you should do next. The lawyer may, for an additional fee, write a letter to your management on your behalf. Sometimes just a letter on legal letterhead is enough to stop them inn their tracks and back up.

If all else fails, I hope the lawyer can negotiate a way for you to leave with a good reference and be able to collect unemployment insurance.

When people give advice about getting a lawyer, they sometimes don't realize how afraid people are of running up huge legal bills that they will be unable to pay. Lawyers are incredibly expensive, and unaffordable for the average person. And a lot of people don't know how to go about finding a lawyer who will work with them and not rip them off. My family has used Bar Association referrals a couple of times, and it was money well spent.

Good luck!

[CreekDog]

36. The thing about bullies is that they do it to more than one person

if more than one of you has the same story, she should be finished --and that's exactly what she deserves.

good luck.