Are kids learning much in the way of grammar?

[hyphenate]

I just saw one of the funniest word substitutions ever. The sentence:

"I was 5 when I heard it for the first time, and it has never seized to make me cry ever since, virtually every time. "

What's wrong with that sentence? I'm laughing, but on a more serious level, kids need to learn better grammar somehow. I know teachers are trying to teach, and I know some kids learn at some level, but not having a better vocabulary will hurt people in the end: It's difficult to express yourself if you aren't able to put the proper words into your written or spoken language.

[Richardo]

1. I think in some cases, the 'autocomplete' feature fucks them over...

...and they don't notice, don't care, or maybe even think the algorithm knows better than they do.

That said, there is an alarming number of functional (and seemingly intentional) illiterates out there.

[seabeyond]

2. sentence structure, vocabulary, spelling is big in kids school. nt

[struggle4progress]

3. Why fore would they need what use of it fore?

[mcar]

4. Not much, but some pick it up anyway

My 13 YO son's friends get annoyed with him because his texts are grammatically correct. :toast:

[hyphenate]

5. Hah!

I tried to text a few times in the vernacular, and found it was useless. I had to give up, because I spent too much time editing my texts.

Good on your son. I suspect he reads alot?

[mcar]

9. He reads constantly, yes

He probably couldn't tell you about grammar, but he knows how to use it.

OTOH, his language arts teacher last year (7th grade) actually had the kids diagramming sentences. I was pleasantly amazed.

[triguy46]

6. Wife is English teacher, so ours did very, very well.

Unfortunately, there are English teachers who don't know English, grammar, spelling, punctuation. It is a challenge. For instance, had a nephew who was dating a young woman who claimed she wanted to be an English teacher, she was a college junior at the time. So I gave her my favorite test for a budding English teacher: "Name all 23 helping verbs." Most freeze, have no idea. We made it a game with our kids as to who could say them the fastest. They can still do it nearly 20 years later.

Oh, here they are: may, might, must, be, being, been, am, are, is, was, were, do, does, did, should, could, would, have, has, had, will, can, shall

Now do it FAST!

[surrealAmerican]

7. My kids learned far more about grammar ...

... when they started studying foreign languages than they did in English classes.

[realisticphish]

11. oh, hell yes; latin for me

it is thanks to latin that I know when to use "who" and "whom."

You learn SO much about sentence structure, when its switched around.

I also got a refresher in college when I was studying ASL. ASL sentence structure is actually based in French; OSV instead of SVO. It makes you respect ASL translators a LOT more when you realize that when they are speaking and signing at the same time, they are saying completely different sentences simultaneously.

[pink-o]

8. It is not in the Corporatocracy's best interest to educate us.

Especially not in ways where we can express ourselves and write well. That might lead to the populous actually questioning and changing the Status Quo--IOW, diminishing the power of the Corporations who're trying to control our every move. we can't let THAT happen!

But listen, I find it hard to blame texting et al for kids' ignorance of good grammar. There are many different levels of written and verbal communication. I speak very casually amongst my peers, using the article "a" in front of a vowel, using adjectives when adverbs are required, not structuring sentences correctly--only because I'm merely conversing, not entering a contest. But if it becomes necessary for me to speak or write properly, I can call up the resources when I need them.

This is true for many people who speak in vernacular, such as African Americans. When they're communicating on a professional level, they speak a lot differently than when they talk to their friends. And texting is its own vernacular: it's a bad excuse for not speaking and writing properly when you're not playing with your telephone. Kids just need to be taught the difference.

As for me, I've only ever had a high school education, never finished college with even a BA. Any language skills I've learned have mostly come from reading books. Maybe if we get the kids off the computers and the telephones for a few hours, show them how to crack open two covers with some print on them, they might actually enjoy learning language skills.

[hyphenate]

10. Our English teachers were quite strict

but we also read more than most high school students do now.

I think I am afraid that the language that I know and love will lose its meaning over time, because it will be like Middle English and modern English--where we can barely understand what has been. And yes, I am well aware that language is ever changing, but there comes a point where loss becomes so great, we have lost yet another version of it.

[LeftinOH]

12. Parents with bad spelling and grammar habits pass it on to their kids -ususally,

[Arkansas Granny]

16. A former co-worker always said that children tend to speak the "mother tongue".

What they hear at home is generally the way they grow up speaking. I see examples of this every day with people saying "I seen", "I done", etc.

[Kat45]

18. My mother never used "baby talk" when speaking to me.

Even when I was a baby, she would speak correctly to me. She may have only had a high school education, but she was smart about a lot of things.

[MorningGlow]

13. It works better when the kids are surrounded by proper grammar all the time

Schools can only do so much in the limited amount of time teachers have to drill into their heads all the crazy grammatical rules of the English language.

As a professional writer and former high school English teacher, I've made a point of always talking to MG Jr. in proper English. My mom says I'm talking over his head, but he's fine...and he's probably one of the only 6-year-olds in a 50-mile radius who can make the distinction between "farther" and "further" and use them correctly.

[DFW]

14. Ain't it gr8 what U C that passes 4 English these days?

Sometimes, I think I need a course in advanced cryptography to understand what my children write these days.

Worse yet--they understand each other perfectly! :shrug:

[TZ]

15. My mom's a former English teacher

and I can assure you that grammatical issues were a problem long before the internets or texting or anything else came along. Just like illiteracy was a problem before electronic communications.
Education in general has been a problem in this country for a long time. Last to get funding, first to get cut.

[brendan120678]

17. What's wrong, besides...

using seized instead of ceased?

It's a long and unnecessarily garbled sentence.

[deutsey]

19. Don't you mean: "Is our children learning?"

:evilgrin:

[hayu_lol]

21. It is pretty obvious right here on DU...

that the older generations do know and use grammar, punctuation, and spelling far better than the younger generations. They also have,and use, a much more sophisticated vocabulary.

This could be due to learning cursive handwriting in the primary grades. When your mind can get ahead of your pen, you have time to consider what you are writing.

Another factor may have been the quality literature that used to be read in schools.

I do realize that the public education I received between 1940-53 was superior to what my youngest child received from 1986-99.

[deutsey]

22. As a writer, I know the first rule of good writing is: Read lots of good writing

I've read some recent studies that suggest the entire nature of the Internet and social networking makes our thinking and attention spans scattered and shallow. While reading thoughtful, well-written narratives focuses and deepens our thinking.

With Facebook, Twitter, IM, and even discussion boards like DU, people are being conditioned to toss off sloppy, poorly conceived, and poorly expressed comments.

I'm not a luddite and do my fair share of perusing the Internet and communicating through social networking. It's just as a culture we don't value slowing down, following a thought, and making the careful effort to express ourselves effectively.

[The Midway Rebel]

20. My kids

is.