Dog owners, am I an asshole?

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

I was walking my 10 month old Jack Russell Vina today in the park down the street from my house when another JRT,(Blacky) not on a leash, came running towards us. Vina came into heat on September 1st and every time we approach dogs on our walks I ask if the dog is a male or female and if it is a male I tell the human that my dog is in heat.

Everybody so far has been very nice and either tightened the leash on their male dogs or put a leash on them. Blacky's human started lambasting me. She made no effort to put him on a leash until after he had run up to Vina and began attacking her. I picked her up in my arms and the lady came stomping over and said that I should be ashamed of myself and how rude it was to take my dog for a walk while she is in heat and how hard it is on other dogs and their owners. All in German but I understood every word.

I told her to shut her pie hole and that in the 3 minutes she had wasted being an aggressive jerk, she could have put a leash on Blacky and walked on by!

Please note! we live in a country with almost zero stray dogs. People actually adopt street dogs from Spain here. My baby girl is from a champion line of JRT's and my vet has recommended that I breed her one time to mellow her out. And we live in an apartment. Her only avenue to do her business is outside of my home.

I don't know why this is bothering me so much!

[elehhhhna]

1. no. the other dogowner is a jerk.

[mnhtnbb]

2. No, Notorious, Blacky's owner is the asshole.

I hate it when dog owners will not leash their dogs. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of houses
that are rentals to students going to UNC Chapel Hill. One of the duplexes has a new tenant who refuses
to take responsibility for his dog. Four times in the last 2 weeks I've been walking Snowy after dinner,
and this dog is out running around. It doesn't come when it is called and delights in accosting my dog.
(She's spayed and the other dog wants to play, but I'm training Snowy and it's no help to have another
dog that isn't controlled out in the street.)

I've told this guy--twice--that there is a leash law in Chapel Hill. Last night I told him my next call is to animal control. I actually saw him, the first time, praise the dog for running into a neighbor's yard
and taking a pee in the middle of the yard!


:mad:

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

8. Now that's an asshole!

Any dog that doesn't respond to voice command should not be off leash. Period. I've tried it a couple times with Vina but she took off after a few bike riders and wouldn't come back when I called her so no more of that for her.

There is no leash law here in Munich.

[Maine-ah]

14. even dogs that normally respond to voice command should still

be on a leash in public for their own protection against idiots that don't have their dogs on leashes...and dogs that normally respond to voice command can still disobey if they see something they want to go after.

Glad you had your beastie on a leash, that woman was an idiot.

[Kali]

3. I don't think that makes you an asshole, but I do think it might not be the wisest thing

if you are wanting a specific sire for pups. I also think your vet is incorrect about mellowing a bitch out by having one litter. If you want to continue the line and have purebreds that is one thing, but doing it just for a mythical behavior modification is not such a great idea.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

10. Thank you Kali

I walk Vina on leash only so the chance of her mating with another dog without my knowledge is non-existent. I would like to breed her with another pure-bred JRT and continue her line but that was a decision I made after talking to the vet who told me that having a litter of pups after her second "heat" would make her a better behaved and mellower dog.

[Kali]

11. they can get bred pretty fast - especially if it isn't a pairing you want!

now, if there is lots of planning and $$$ involved nothing will happen, of course. :eyes:


You have to walk her and if she is on a leash, you are doing your part (plus you can pick her up as you did, if you have to)

I think the other person is crazy about the difficulty controlling her own dog (and why isn't he neutered? I mean what? the males have an excuse to be fertile and females don't?)

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

13. NOBODY NEUTERS

MALE DOGS HERE! They just strut around with their big balls swinging in the wind. I don't get it but as I've said several times in this thread, we don't have strays or mutts running around here. Alles in Ordnung!

[MiddleFingerMom]

27. Alerting on Kali...

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"I also think your vet is incorrect about mellowing a bitch out by having one litter.."
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...for calling somebody a bitch and then falsely accusing them of littering.
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Geesh... lighten up, Francis!!!!
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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[flvegan]

4. No.

If you have no choice, you have no choice. However, I think your vet is wildly incorrect and has given you bad advice.

Just my 2 cents.

[hamsterjill]

41. Seconded. Your vet is incorrect.

It is NOT necessary nor desirable that a dog be bred "once" before being fixed. That is old school thinking.

[elleng]

5. Bothering you 'cause you're not used to being lambasted, period!

Don't know about vet advice, but here, you are in the right! Vina must be walked, and boy dogs should stay away when warned!

:hug:

[ThomasQED]

6. You're not an asshole, but your vet is an idiot.

Not sure why the woman was so upset. Sounds like it would have been a non-event with a little common courtesy on her part.

Get the dog spayed. The world does not need any more "purebreds" or strays or shelter dogs.

You have a high-energy breed. Presumably that's what you wanted. If you now want to mellow her out, train her. She does not need to have puppies.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

12. Thanks for your input

I think you missed the last part of my original post...we don't have stray dogs in Munich. People here adopt stray dogs from other countries like Spain. There is no over-population of mutts running the streets and breeding uncontrollably. I have to register my dog with the government here and pay a tax based on her breed. My vet registered her automatically when I took her to her first appointment.
You get caught with a dog that isn't registered with the tax office, you are screwed six ways from Sunday.

Do you have any chocolate? huh? Do you? Give me some chocolate NOW! Please mom, can I have some chocolate, huh? Now? Huh? That is the brain of a JRT. She sits on street corners and waits until I say "Clear"

That's pretty damn good for a high energy doggie :)

[ThomasQED]

16. I didn't miss it

But as you just said, there is still a lot of overpopulation, just not right where you are. It's great that people adopt from other countries.

I could never handle a JRT, but they sure are fun to play with at the park once in a while.

[rainbow4321]

18. JRT rock

Mine is a mix of JRT and dachshund. Right down to her paw nails..they alternate black and white in color.
Incredibly smart..I was not getting out of bed quick enough for her one morning so she started pushing my alarm clock around with her nose...she knew that when that "thing" made a buzzing sound I got up. She was trying to make it buzz.
She does get distracted easily..if so much as a bird flies by when she is trying to do her outside business, bye-bye business doing.
She has some quirky habits..has to be hidden in tall grass or bushy area before she will poop (and being a good doggie walker, I go into the grass/bushes to retrieve it). And after she is done, she stands in place next to it, her back paws pushing up grass/stones to cover it up. Her version of "flushing", I guess.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

23. Your dog sounds like quite a character Rainbow!

JRTs are a very lovable little breed, each one with their own quirks and idiosyncrasies. My last baby girl, Piglet, would go to the door in the middle of the night and bark like she needed to go out. My husband would get up and put on his clothes to take her out only to find her sleeping on his pillow. Sneaky!

[rainbow4321]

29. LOL...

What a stinker..they are sooooo frigging smart! Forget the game show "Are you smarter than a Fifth grader", there needs to be "Are you smarter than a Jack Russell". I think I would fail on that.
We put her in a doggie crate when ever we go out...one day she stopped short of the crate and hid under the nearby table. She got me good the first time she did that cuz I just assumed she had ran in. Til I saw her out of the corner of my eye under the damn table. I had already shut the crate door and everything. The crate is tiny and low to the ground so you can't see IN it unless you pretty much get on your belly or knees and look in. I swear I saw her smile when she saw that I fell for it.
Bullet (that's her name..appropriate given her speed) goes for pillows, also! She can have the whole bed or couch, but there she lays, on whatever pillow is around. I started calling her the pillow princess. Even if MY head is ON the bed pillow, she will scoot up there and act like I am the one invading HER space.

I took her walking thru a festival yesterday and she was doing the whole "I'm small but tough" barking routine to everyone who walked by us. One guy took her on, got down on his knees and started to bark at her and wrestle with her. She lost her tough act and fully engaged him. First thing he said was "I have a JRT, also".

[TorchTheWitch]

49. When my dog needs me to wake up he sits on my head

And he weighs more than I do, so I'm not quite so fond of this manuever. I am glad that he at least does something though to get me up when the alarm clock is going off and I'm not making any signs that I'm responding to it because a lot of times I don't. I sleep like a corpse, and it doesn't matter how loud the alarm is, I can still sleep through it for quite some time. I think in my sleep I know the alarm is going off but I'm not making the mental connection that it's the alarm and it means I'm supposed to be getting up.

My dog also is easily distracted and won't do his bidniz if something else is going on. My next door neighbors have been getting into the habit of letting their dog in the yard when they hear mine going out, and if I need him to hurry up and do his thing because I need to go somewhere this really gets on my nerves. And of course it happens all the time that he's almost all the way into the poopy crouch about to release the bomb when the neighbor's dog comes outside, and my dog immediately aborts the poop mission. It's maddening.

[TorchTheWitch]

47. it isn't just about overpopulation

Breeding should only occur between dogs of superior health qualities. That's the most important part of what purebred breeding is all about. Many many diseases and disorders can be virtually eliminated by careful breeding. Hip dysplasia for instance used to be rampant for many dogs of the larger variety and even smaller ones but through many years of careful breeding it's very rare now in larger breed dogs that have been properly bred as the dogs whose genes predisposed them to hip dysplasia have largely died off over time and weren't used for breeding because of it.

Breeding purebreds is also expensive, complicated and time consuming. Most good breeders don't make a profit off their breeding at all and some even lose money at it, but the good ones don't care because breeding isn't supposed to be about making money anyway... it's for the love of the breed and the desire to improve it.

This vet doesn't know what the heck he's talking about telling you to breed her to mellow her out. Lord have mercy, that's the stupidest thing I ever heard. Drop that vet like a hot rock and find a good one that will spay your sweet girl ASAP.

Jack Russells are bred with the intension of creating high energy dogs, and all a high energy dog needs to mellow out a bit is a TON of exercise every day. If she's still under 4 years old, she's going to be ultra high energy just because of the natural high energy of youth. It's a shame you don't live in a dwelling that you'd have your own private staircase because there's nothing like a flight of stairs to quickly wear out a high energy dog especially if you're the kind of person (like me) that much prefers the dog doing 90% of the exercising. Playing fetch on the stairs is what I do to wear out my dog really fast, and all I have to do is stand there and toss the toy down the stairs for him and wait for him to bring it back to throw again... he's pooped in about 5 minutes, and he normally has enough energy to trot me at double-time on our walks halfway to China and back every day.

Does your apartment building have back stairway that's seldom used or maybe a basement stairway where you could run her up and down the stairs every day to drain off energy without it being likely that anyone else will be around? I lived in an apartment with my first Akita when he was in his most energetic youth that had a back stairway that nobody really used (probably because it didn't lead anywhere convenient - must have needed to be there as an emergency exit). I'd run him up and down those stairs once or twice a day and it was all he needed other than his brief morning walk and late night long walk.

Something else you might try that works best for small dogs rather than larger ones is to teach her to chase a small flashlight spot around a room. Of course, this works best when you can make the room pretty dark. The trick is to keep moving the light spot to keep them pretty much continuously running. And it's one of those great games where the dog's doing all the work. This never worked so well for draining energy with my big dogs because it only took them a couple of steps from one end of the room to the other, so they didn't have much room to really run like a small dog could.

As for the rude woman who doesn't leash her dog... piss on her. She's totally 100% completely and absolutely in the wrong - period. Dog owners are always always always responsible for what their dogs do, and she obviously needs to leash her dog when out in public since she's already demonstrated she can't control him without it. Dogs should always be leashed in public unless in a no-leash dog park regardless of the local laws for everyone else's safety but also for the dog's safety. Dogs absolutely do not require the ability to roam the world at will, so there is no reason whatsoever for any dog to not be leashed when in public.

Do you know what the laws are where you live if your dog is attacked by someone else's? In the US it's always the fault of the owner of the attacking dog regardless of the circumstances, however, depending on the circumstances is what (if anything) is done about it as there are very good reasons for dogs to attack. You may want to look into what can be done legally to get this woman to be forced to control her dog. It also tends to be that those areas that have no leash laws also have stricter laws when it comes to attacking dogs in order to compensate. I think they sort of look at it like, look we'll not require you to leash your dog, BUT if your dog attacks for no legitimate reason than the penalty will be harsher than if we required you to leash your dog. That way it forces reasonable people to either leash their dog voluntarily or be more vigilant about being able to control their dogs and try to keep them out of situations where they may attack.

I really feel for you. I've had similar experiences with obnoxious people that refuse to leash and/or control their dogs, and I end up steamed about it for days.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

52. Thank you for such a thought out and helpful post

TorchTheWitch! That must have taken you quite a bit of time. I really appreciate it.

I've gotten the message loud and clear that my vet has some outdated ideas about spaying/neutering.

Because she is such a little ball of energy who was bred to hunt Vina will chase just about anything. I bought a cat toy that is a little fishing pole with a bunch of feathers on the end of the line and I run her in the living room with it. The stairs are a definite no no. Got an old crab who lives next door with a very aggressive German Shepherd who barks at the drop of a pin. Vina running up and down the stairs would cause world war III. That is a great idea about the flash light. I'll try it tonight.

I've learned to live with people letting their dogs run around off leash. It seems to be the rule rather than an exception here. I've never had a dog that wasn't spayed or neutered so I didn't really know if I was out of line walking her in public. She's got such a nice disposition (UNLIKE PIGLET!) that I'm really not worried about her being attacked. I have an insurance policy on her. If she attacks another dog and injures it or causes property damage the insurance will cover all the costs. This is not required here but it is what most sensible people do so I assume if she were to get injured the attacker's human would have to pay the vet bills.

When Pig was alive, walking her became almost a phobia for me because she was so unfriendly and rude to other dogs and she was attacked numerous times, nothing to cause any serious injury because I usually scooped her up and ran away :) Vina is a piece of cake compared to that.

[petronius]

7. I'm not a dog owner, but it seems to me that whenever an unleashed dog

is not immediately controlled, then that dog's owner is the asshole. The source of the distraction is totally irrelevant...

[wickerwoman]

48. Seconded.

I finally had to give up trying to walk my parents ultra- ultra- submissive dog because he was constantly being attacked by unleashed dogs whose owners *swore* their dogs were well behaved, just wanted to play, and made no effort to control them.

[The Midway Rebel]

9. Those Vina molecules will move miles and miles away.

So, Blacky is going know what is up no matter where Vina does her business.

I question the wisdom of breeding a dog to "mellow her out" though. We have enough dogs without homes. Surely, your vet is aware of the pet over population problem.

[LeftyFingerPop]

15. You should have sued for punitive damages.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

17. Well, my shoes were knocked off

and my head was dashed apart! I wish I would have been driving a motorcycle with Vina in the sidecar, racing up and down the neighborhood.

[rainbow4321]

19. No, the other person was being the ass

I sympathize with you..I live in an apt complex, also, and a few months ago some lady had her TWO Labs running loose. Along come me and my JRT, with her 2 dogs heading straight to us. She said that they both slipped out of her apartment when she opened the door.

Granted, I guess it could happen, but I never did hear her yelling or chasing them in the hallway until they turned the corner, saw me/my dog and charged towards us.
We have a enclosed courtyard in the middle of our apt building, so some of the residents see it as THEIR personal back yard...to the extent that they let their dogs run loose when they take them out or don't pick up the dog poop.
What they don't understand is, never underestimate a JRT, they will take on a dog, and really seem to love to take on the BIG dogs. My 12 lb JRT took on a Great Dane, had it terrified and running to a corner to hide.

[Curmudgeoness]

20. How old is that vet of yours? It has been years since this was

common practice to settle an animal down. Actually time will do that as they move out of puppyhood. I can understand if you really want to breed her, and that is your right. But if you are doing this just for temperament, you may be disappointed. Do what you think is best, but for her, this would be unnecessary.

And yes, you are an asshole, I bet she would really really like to get a little about now. Heat is a powerful aphrodisiac.

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

24. lol

I've never been called an asshole in such a nice way before! :rofl:

[femmocrat]

21. Well, several things come to mind:

1. You should have put a doggie diaper on her (made for bitches in heat).
2. The woman should have had her dog on a leash.
3. Your vet is an idiot. Please have your dog spayed and do not breed her. All pedigree dogs come from champion lines. That does not mean they should be bred.

[TK421]

22. You should have kicked that person in the head...hard, so maybe it would have

corrected what was wrong with her head....just my opinion

You did nothing wrong and acted accordingly

[cwydro]

25. You are not an asshole Notorious.

Some of those German women are pretty fearsome lol! I got told off in no uncertain terms for playing music too loud in my condo when I lived there...:scared:

I do agree with the other posters about your vet being out of date. That is an old wives tale about a dog having to have a heat first. The earlier they are spayed, the healthier for the dog.

All of my dogs have been spayed as soon as it was time and all of them lived over 15 years (long time for big dogs).

And how the hell are ya today gf?:hi:

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

31. It's not just the women!

Markus and I were walking Piglet through a park and there were a lot of bicyclists going in both directions. Some old guy with glasses failed to signal that he was turning and another old guy yelled at him "You've got four eyes and you still can't see you silly old asshole." Gotta love em.

I'm feeling pretty excited today. I might have a real whirling dervish on my hands in a few days! :beer: :evilgrin:

[cwydro]

33. A real whirling dervish? Wha?

Lol, yeah you gotta love those Germans!

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

34. I was referring to you!

Not MissHoneychurch! :party:

[cwydro]

35. I'll have you know

that I rarely whirl...:rofl:

[hobbit709]

26. The other person was the ass.

I probably would have started out telling her off in German but in my case I probably would have finished by cussing her in Russian. There are insults you can say in Russian that don't translate well to other languages.

[Monique1]

28. All dogs should be on a leash

Animals like people are not predictable. I think there are many people who should be on a leash also.

[Roon]

30. Some asshole used to let his dog shit in our front yard every morning

and not clean it up. He would come by very early,I could never catch him in the act.

Then one day I was coming back from the store and I witnessed a lady letting her dog shit in my yard..but she had a baggie ready to pick it up.....My mentally ill, un-medicated self unleashed on her. I screamed,"Don't let your dog shit in my hard!!" (I was yelling at everyone who has ever let their dog shit in my yard) I would tell you more, but I am ashamed of the way I acted that day. Never saw the woman again to take it back. It sucked.

Anyway, i am healthy and on meds and would never dream of yelling at a pet owner for letting their dogs poop.

[carlyhippy]

32. I would have told her that if my dog ends up knocked up, I will be bringing the puppies to her house

to take care of, or she will have to pay for puppy support :)

[Amaril]

43. I had a neighbor with three black labs

that he would allow to crap in my front yard all the time........ticked me off royally - my kiddles were little at the time and I would have to do poop patrol before they could play in their own front yard - and I spoke to him about it (nicely) several times. I finally got fed up and returned all the poop to him -- via shovel -- in a nice pile on his front stoop. They never pooped in my yard again. :)

[Roon]

46. Welcome to DU,Amaril

Looks like you solved the problem very nicely!

[Amaril]

51. Thanks for the welcome!

:hi:

[laylah]

36. I don't care what the topic is...

YOU, an asshole? Never, Never, Never :hug:

As an aside, the other dog owner was an ass.

:hug: Jenn

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

38. awwwww

Thanks lalah. You are too sweet! :hug:

I guess the consensus is that I AM NOT AN ASSHOLE. At least not in this case :evilgrin:

[Bucky]

37. Before I answer, tell me: do you ever take your Jack (Jill?) Russell to the Olive Garden?

[theNotoriousP.I.G.]

39. I used to

Back when I was still breast feeding her. :silly:

[JVS]

40. Germans don't really dig to whole leash thing.

Technically it's law, but they don't care.

[sinkingfeeling]

42. The other owner was in the wrong, but please do not follow your vet's advice! Do not breed your Vina

to 'mellow her out'. You should have her spayed as soon as possible. The chances of her developing cancer increase dramaically after going through just a single heat cycle.

Mammary cancer: Estrogen is one of the primary causes of canine mammary cancer, the most common malignant tumor in dogs. Animals that are spayed prior to one year of age very rarely develop this malignancy. Spaying a dog before her first heat is the best way to significantly reduce the chance your dog will develop mammary cancer. The risk of malignant mammary tumors in dogs spayed prior to their first heat is 0.05%. It is 8% for dog spayed after one heat, and 26% in dogs spayed after their second heat.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+2112&aid=926

[Amaril]

44. No, you are absolutely NOT an asshole

Anybody who allows their dog to roam off leash -- and runs the risk of them being seriously injured (by dashing into traffic or getting into a fight with another dog) or injuring another person / animal -- is the asshole.

Both of my boys (two lab mixes) have been thru obedience training and I take them everywhere with me, so they are super friendly and well socialized, BUT I don't trust either one of them as far as I could throw them. They are DOGS and; therefore, subject to acting like dogs when I least expect it. I see a LOT of irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs roam off leash and they invariably tell me how well trained their dogs are. Right. Tell me that again after they've been hit by a car or bitten someone.

[woofless]

45. No asshole would ever ask

"Am I an asshole?" Let's you off the hook.

Woof

[retread]

50. Change vets! n/t

[Deep13]

53. Nope. Sounds like you were being reasonable. nt