I just answered my (Mrs. V.'s) nephew's bogus forward-forward-forward about the ACLU and headstones

[Bertha Venation]

in the shapes of crosses.

Paraphrased: did you know the ACLU is trying to remove crosses shaped like headstones from military cemeteries? Did you also know that the ACLU is trying to remove prayer from the military, and that chaplains are not allowed to pray in Jesus' name anymore? It's all because of Obama!

Here is my reply:

I hope my answer to this email will give you some peace.

There is a website called snopes.com, which is dedicated in part to clearing up some misunderstandings about stories circulating in email. I’ve looked at Snopes to see if it has anything to say about the information in this email.

1. “The ACLU has filed suit to have all cross-shaped headstones removed.”
This is false. Please see Snopes at http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/cemetery.asp. Here’s a quote: “The ACLU has stated that it is not seeking to have cross-shaped headstones (or headstones bearing any other religious symbol) removed from the federal cemeteries wherein honored U.S. veterans are interred.” The ACLU said “The ACLU is not pursuing, nor has it ever pursued, the removal of religious symbols from personal gravestones. Personal gravestones are the choice of the family members, not the choice of the government.” See ACLU’s web page, “Myths and Realities: Gravestones and Markers Are Not In Danger,” http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/myths-and-realities-gravestones-and-markers-are-not-danger.

2. “…and another suit to end prayer from the military completely. They're making great progress. The Navy Chaplains can no longer mention Jesus' name in prayer thanks to the wretched ACLU and our new administration.”
I have no qualms about calling this portion of your forwarded email an out-and-out lie. In my internet research I have found nothing backing the statement that Chaplains can no longer pray in Jesus’ name. The ACLU itself has stated, “Members of the military have a right to pray or not pray as they personally see fit, and that right is protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution. It is one of the fundamental rights they put their lives on the line to defend in service to their country.” From http://urbanlegends.about.com/od/religion/a/i_am_honored_to_do_this.htm

I wholeheartedly agree, as with the prayer at the end of your email, that support and blessings for our armed forces and their families are of utmost importance. I am grateful everyday for their sacrifice.

My (Mrs. V.'s) nephew is not educated, and is not versed in the art of thinking for himself. I hope I get through to him.

[pokerfan]

1. Also...

covered in http://www.factcheck.org/2009/07/aclu-and-cemetary-crosses">Factcheck, http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/a/aclu-markers.htm">TruthOrFiction and http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jul/02/chain-email/no-aclu-lawsuit-over-cross-shaped-headstones">Politifact. In related ACLU news, http://www.aclu.org/religion-belief/veterans-win-right-post-religious-symbol-headstones">Veterans Win Right to Post Religious Symbol on Headstones and some other examples of the http://www.aclu.org/aclu-defense-religious-practice-and-expression">ACLU defending religious expression and http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/">specifically that of Christians.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Good for you, my dear Bertha!

I hope you can get through to him too...

Some of these right-wing types are now claiming that Snopes is a left-wing site where the truth cannot be found...

Good luck!

:hi:

[Mopar151]

4. Got that missive from the wingnyt uncle over a year ago

There are several excellent refutations around.

Here's one I sent out, and a copy of the original attack:

One thing that annoys me about rightwingnuts, "neocons", or IMHO, "neomonarchists" is their nasty but predictable debating style. In a nutshell, they attack their opponents, without regard for facts, where they themselves are weakest. The E-mail we got a while ago regarding the Snopes.com website is a glowing example of this:


Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: Snopes---


Interesting info about snopes.com ..






By Alan Strong

For the past few years http://www.snopescom/ Has positioned itself, or others have labeled it, as the 'tell-all final word' on any comment, claim and email. But for several years people tried to find out who exactly was behind snopes.com.

Only recently did Wikipedia get to the bottom of it - kinda makes you wonder what they were hiding. Well, finally we know. It is run by a husband and wife team - that's right, no big office of investigators and researchers, no team of lawyers.. It's just a mom-and-pop operation that began as a hobby. David and Barbara Mikkelson in the San Fernando Valley of California started the website about 13 years ago - and they have no formal background or experience in investigative research. After a few years it gained popularity believing it to be unbiased and neutral, but over the past couple of years people started asking questions who was behind it and did they have a selfish motivation?

The reason for the questions - or skepticisms - is a result of snopes.com claiming to have the bottom line facts to certain questions or issue when in fact they have been proven wrong. Also, there were criticisms the Mikkelsons were not really investigating and getting to the 'true' bottom of various issues.

A few months ago, when my State Farm agent Bud Gregg in Mandeville hoisted a political sign referencing Barack Obama an d made a big splash across the Internet, 'supposedly' the Mikkelson's claim to have researched this issue before posting their findings on snopes.com. In their statement they claimed the corporate office of State Farm pressured Gregg into taking down the sign, when in fact nothing of the sort 'ever' took place. I personally contacted David Mikkelson (and he replied back to me) thinking he would want to get to the bottom of this and I gave him Bud Gregg's contact phone numbers - and Bud was going to give him phone numbers to the big exec's at State Farm in Illinois who would have been willing to speak with him about it. He never called Bud. In fact, I learned from Bud Gregg no one from snopes.com ever contacted anyone with State Farm. Yet, snopes.com issued a statement as the 'final factual word' on the issue as if they did all their homework and got to the bottom of things - not!

Then it has been learned the Mikkelson's are very Democratic (party) and extremely liberal. As we all now know from this presidential election, liberals have a purpose agenda to discredit anything that appears to be conservative. . There has been much criticism lately over the Internet with people pointing out the Mikkelson's liberalism revealing itself in their website findings.. Gee, what a shock?

So, I say this now to everyone who goes to snopes.com to get what they think to be the bottom line facts...'proceed with caution..' Take what it says at face value and nothing more. Use it only to lead you to their references where you can link to and read the sources for yourself. Plus, you can always Google a subject and do the research yourself. It now seems apparent that's all the Mikkelson's do. After all, I can personally vouch from my own experience for their 'not' fully looking into things.

http://www.wikipedia.org/

http://www.snopes.com/

I have found this to be true also! Many videos of Obama I tried to verify on Snopes and they said they were False...... Then they gave their Liberal slant.....!!! I have suspected some problems with snopes for some time now, but I have only caught them in half-truths. If there is any subjectivity they do an immediate full left rudder. Truth or Fiction, http://www.truthorfiction.com/, a better source for verification, in my opinion.

I have recently discovered that Snopes.com is owned by a flaming liberal and this man is in the tank for Obama. There are many things they have listed on their site as a hoax and yet you can go to You tube yourself and find the video of Obama actually saying these things. So you see, you cannot and should not trust Snopes.com....ever for anything that remotely resembles truth! I don't even trust them to tell me if email chains are hoaxes anymore.

A few conservative speakers on Myspace told me about Snopes.com. A few months ago and I took it upon myself to do a little research to find out if it was true. Well, I found out for myself that it is true.. Anyway just FYI please don't use Snopes.com anymore for fact checking and make your friends aware of their political leanings as well. Many people still think Snopes.com is neutral and they can be trusted as factual. We need to make sure everyone is aware that that is a hoax in itself.

Thank you,

Alan Strong

Alan Strong CEO/Chairman Commercial Programming Systems, Inc.
4400 Coldwater Canyon Ave. Suite 200 Studio City , CA. 91604-5039

[LeftinOH]

3. It takes a lot of explaining (and reading) to debunk popular myths; some people don't want

to go to all that "trouble". Good luck.

[MiddleFingerMom]

5. I have ONE conservative friend who sends me LOTS of those "forwards"...

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...although it took me a while to figure out he was doing it just to get a rise out of me.
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I could and would immediately debunk them all (of the scores, perhaps hundreds
that he sent, only two weren't debunked undeniable in Snope -- and they were just
opinion pieces).
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Every. Single. One. Debunked.
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I would send them back with the links and suggest he send it back thru the whole list...
but realized that these people so interested in "THE TRUTH" weren't really interested
in the truth.
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If he's fallen under their spell... don't be too disappointed if he tells you that Snopes
is some sort of Commie plot.
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