I'm kind of afraid that one day I'll wake up and my father will be dead.

[Paradoxical]

And I'll realize that I made a mistake. That giving up on him was the greatest fuck up of my entire life.

To what extent does a father deserve the love of his son? Is it unconditional?

At what point am I justified in writing him off as nothing more a washed up old man?

We were inseparable until I was around the age of 10. My parents got divorced. And I began to see his true colors. He was and still is an emotionally manipulative asshole. He cheated on my mother and has cheated on his other past wives. He left a girl-friend because she was diagnosed with cancer. He buys your love.

He once confessed to me that he would love nothing more than to murder my mother and stepfather. He told that to his teenage son.

He's been a jew, born again christian, catholic and mormon. He does whatever people want him to do. He is whatever you want him to be. Changing shades in order to blend in; keeping his followers happy.

But in the end, I find that he isn't anyone at all. He's spent so much time being someone else that I have no idea who he really is. I don't even know if there is anything underneath all his masks. Maybe it's an infinite loop.

He sends me text messages several times a week begging me to talk to him. But how can you have a relationship with someone who has spent his entire life acting? How am I suppose to love someone I've never met?

I really wish I had answers. Because the questions torment me day in and day out.

[Duer 157099]

1. Just remember that he's just a human being, just like you

Parents aren't magical beings, we're just regular imperfect folks like everyone else. Maybe he has regrets, maybe he realizes he has made mistakes and wasted time, maybe he wants to make up for it? I don't know. But it's possible.

[Deep13]

7. Maybe, but what the father wants is not the controlling consideration.

If Paradoxical wants to make up, that is up to him. I counsel against it, however, since, as he says, the father is a manipulative asshole. If Paradoxical wants to be rid of his, then he should be rid of him. Unfortunately, some mere human beings are truly reprehensible people.

[pitohui]

14. no manipulators/con artists are NOT like us, that's how they play us

the manipulator lacks the normal human empathy, which is how they can have no conscience about harming even the people closest to them, it doesn't bother them a bit

they have the edge because they don't feel pity or love, they are just looking to get the advantage, while you are trying to give them the benefit of the doubt

give a sociopath manipulator the benefit of the doubt and you WILL be stripped of everything of value that's important to you, financially, emotioonally, EVERYTHING

to pretend that we are all the same on the inside is just what the sociopath would like you to think

[laundry_queen]

16. I wish I could recommend this post. +1000000 nt

[struggle4progress]

2. I can't tell you what to do. I'm not quite in your position. But I regularly deal with some people

who I really can't entirely ignore and who play stupid mindgames constantly

And whenever I deal with them, I tell myself that I'm really the only person whose behavior I control

We don't get to choose the world that we live in; all we can do is imagine the world we wish that we lived in, and all we can do is try to be some of the people that we wish lived in the world we wish we lived in

It can be hard work sometimes

[coyote]

3. Why don't you simply confront him

and tell him how you feel? Ask why he did the things that he did? Tell him how his actions have hurt you.

He will either own up to them or not.

Either way, maybe just talking with him will stop you from tormenting yourself....even if you do not agree or resolve anything in the end.

[Gormy Cuss]

4. I agree with coyote.

Either he genuinely is sad about the estrangement or he hopes that he can manipulate you but you'll never know unless you start talking to him.

What was posted upthread about parents not being magical beings is true too and trying to resolve the issues he created for you can be healing for you regardless of whether you actually resolve anything with him.

[Deep13]

9. I tried that with my mother and was only infuriated by her denials and...

...her continuing to take my abusive, drunkard step-father's side.

If Paradoxical feels a need to confront him, then that is up to him. If not, I wouldn't be goaded into it because the father won't leave him alone.

[gratuitous]

5. Decide what's important to you

And leave him with no access to any of it. I've had some manipulative folks in my life, probably everyone has. I've been screwed over, taken advantage of, suckered, duped, you name it. When someone destroys my trust, my solution (if they're still looking for a relationship with me) is that they get nothing out of me. I figure I owe the person civility, but access to anything that matters in my life? Fat chance.

You don't have to be hostile, just firmly draw a line. By the way, remember where you drew it, and don't compromise on it. They'll walk the line like a cow in a field, going up and down the line, testing for a weak spot. Just keep redrawing it as you need to. The choice is then with them: Get real and earn trust that was freely granted before, or stay at a very superficial level. I find that usually manipulative people give up on me when I don't feed their addiction anymore. Sometimes it's worked out to a greater or lesser degree. But usually they just go away, looking for an easier mark.

[Deep13]

6. "He was and still is an emotionally manipulative asshole."

Based on your post, it seems like nothing has changed and that he is still good at manipulating you. Change your mobile phone number.

What you want should be controlling your decision and not any guilt trip he is trying to impose on you. A father is more than a genetic donor and yours sounds like he chose not to be one.

[Bucky]

8. There was an episode of "My Name is Earl" about that.

I believe Earl's final judgment on the matter was...

"Well, in the end things didn't quite turn out like I'd planned. But then again, people are complicated"

Which all just goes to say that it's less important whether you patch things up with your dad or not than that you live without regrets. First off, the person you're concerned with isn't your father, but the person you imagined your father to be back when things first went awry with him. The obstacle to talking to him again isn't what he thinks, but what you in your heart fear him thinking. Once you detach from that fear, realize that it's the anticipation of your vulnerabilities before him that scares you, then you'll see have nothing to fear from him. You're grown up and he can't really hurt you. You'll talk with him or you won't, but it's more important that you forgive and become okay with yourself.

By the way, everything I just wrote isn't about you; it's really about me and my sister.

[woo me with science]

10. Relationships don't have to be all or nothing things.

What is it that you are hoping for, that keeps you waking up, and how much of it is realistically possible?

Your father will never be the man you wish he was, but that's true of everyone in this world. None of us live up to expectations. We have to pick and choose whom we let in, and to what extent.

The question is, are there things there worth letting into your life, or that would make you feel good for giving him? Or is your yearning based only on the fantasies that can't happen?

Sometimes a limited relationship can bring a lot to your life. Adjusting your expectations and dealing with someone where they are, instead of where you want them to be, and guarding your heart against the areas where it's not safe to let that person.

Maybe getting some of these things clear in your mind, no matter what your ultimate decision is, could help you get some sleep.

Good luck.

[Paradoxical]

12. My worries are based on fantasies.

I want him to be different.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

11. "The Shack" (spoilers ahead for anyone who hasn't read it)

I told the friend who recommended it to me that I wanted to hurl it through the nearest open window when I got to the final chapters. He replied "A lot of people feel that way after reading it."

The "spoiler" part? Based on reading your post, this book will give you much food for thought. That's what happened when I read it, even though I did want to toss it with maximum velocity.



In the long run, we don't mend fences for the other person...we mend them for ourselves.

I can't address the specifics of your situation because I don't know you, but I had major issues with my own dad right up until his death on April 23, 2003. I did the best I could to smooth things over. It's never easy and it never makes complete sense. You've just got to go with your own guy, do what your heart and your head tell you to do, and let life sort out the rest.

[pitohui]

13. when manipulative people' keep phoning and texting, they're looking for money

if you have any, best thing is not to allow any contact w. the manipulator

if you're already broke, it doesn't matter, you can contact them or whatever, and let them show their true colors

but if you actually have money, you cannot respond to a master manipulator, father or not, maybe especially if
it's a father

i have a friend who was stripped of everything financially by family members and now he is too old to get it back and too young for social security, he will end up homeless and helpless and there's nothing anyone can do at this point

when a master manipulator steals a lifetime of work, god doesn't give you another lifetime to get it back, you just lose your one and only life

master manipulators have to be related to someone, every con artist does their best and most profitable work on family members

con artists and manipulators never change, and looking for them to change is self destructive

[LuckyLib]

15. Some very wise words here. By your words, it is clear that your father is that in

biology and history only. Let it remain that way. The older I get, the more I see how short life is. Not enough hours in the day for the folks we love, the books we want to read. Guard those remaining days and hours for how precious they are. Don't waltz with somone who has proven to be on a different track in life. Some folks are toxic -- best leave them be.

[RandomThoughts]

17. I like my father, and spending time with my father.

Although I also know he is not perfect, he is a good dad.

In my case it is more the idea of not spending the time when you can be with them, and the knowledge of the feelings of regret after that time is not possible.

In my situation, without the correction of beer and travel money that is due, spending time with family, would be dishonest, although I understand that is also a set up to try and set some future regret.

So in my situation, until things are corrected, they would not be seeing me, but the part of me always working on correcting what must be corrected, and hard to just be yourself when always trying to learn or figure out a way to correct what is not your doing, nor your responsibility to correct.


On the topic of masks, many people ware them, I started learning that 99% of what people say means far less then a single expression, or a comment, in a moment. If you learn to be able to read people, then you can understand both him, and the mask he wears, and usually why he wears them. Deep empathy usually allows that where you become the same feelings of the person, conversation with him might help with that. Just have him tell stories to you about his life.


On a personal note, I am due beer and travel money, that has not arrived, so why would it matter if people know me. And on a further note, something not mentioned in the art of war, the comment is to know yourself and other people, but also intrinsic in that comment, is you can be successful by keeping people from knowing you, and even removing what someone thinks of as knowing themselves. And some people feel everyone is an enemy to them and never show who they really are to anyone. Many of the best relationships are when people can be themselves around someone else.

Although in some relationships some use masks as a form of protection of their own feelings.


And it is unfortunate most of the post is about me and my situations, not yours, I am due beer and travel money, and many experiences.