i'm glad i'm a country boy

[bearfartinthewoods]

seriously.....i've tried living in cities, boston and san francisco.
didn't like it. sure it was fun, with many attractions but it was too unsettling for this country boy to be in the middle of so many people.

watching the New Yourkers react yesterday was heartening but the logistic are still so dismal. what do you do with millions of people when the toilets don't work? my gawd....

one thing that did make me shake my head is the concern about water. four gallons of water in milk jugs takes up a little more than a cubic foot of space. wassamatter with people that they don't have enough water stored for a weekend? sheesh....and a radio and flashlight? i don't get it. since 9/11, i have worn a tiny led flashlight on a chain around my neck and if i'm going into a big building, i have a led headlamp in my pocket that takes up less room than a pack of cigarettes.

of all places....New Yourkers still caught, trying to move down stairs in the dark. i just don't get it.

if anything big does happen, they are so screwed.

for me, i'll be content with the country, where i'm not dependent on public transit. i have a weeks worth of drinking water and the means to make more. i can walk to a stream for flush water. she bear's an "ant" since birth so we always have enough stuff to last us for months. i just cannot fathom the mindset that lets people go unprepared for emergencies.

s'cuse me...i think it's time to fire up the generator for it's monthly maintanance run.

[Skidmore]

1. Bear, my husband and I were talking about the same thing

last night as we were enjoying the breeze off the fields. It was warm here (low 90s) but we had a good breeze and the air conditioner was off. There's a lot to be said for life in the country. I'd never move to the city again.

[bearfartinthewoods]

3. and the quiet....

i know city people find it un-nerving but i cherish the quiet. sitting out on a summer night... unless the peepers are going nuts :grin:

i read or heard about a power outage in san francisco, during which people were calling the cops to report strange lights in the sky. people were seeing the milky way for the first time in their lives.

i can't imagine living without the stars....

[sybylla]

9. Here, here!

Nothing like a quiet summer evening with a fresh breeze blowing across the hay fields. We hardly ever have a day without a slight breeze and run our AC about 2 weeks a year.

Thirteen years ago I moved into the middle of an Amish community and was reminded again, after 8 years living in Madison, how quiet living in the country can be. We can hear horses hooves connecting with the gravel road over a half mile away on any given Sunday.

But my husband, a farm boy, can't stand the sounds of crickets in the fall. It's like fingernails running down a chalk board for him and he always makes me close the windows or turn on a fan to drowned them out.

[Fla_Democrat]

2. You said it.

:thumbsup:

[theriverburns]

5. I was moving to the country YESTERDAY

I'm like you. My depression era grandparents taught me to stock up. I keep water, food etc. We could probably have lived for three months on what had been in our basement. I have a generator, camping supplies, problem is--all had been taken to a storage unit earlier that day. So had all of our beds, sofas etc. Our house was totally empty. We slept on the hardwood floor.

We couldn't leave because we couldn't get gas and there were still a few things to take to our unit. So we had to stay one more night. I and leave today.

I live dab smack in the middle of the city of Cleveland. One of those neighborhoods that are being gentrified...but still pretty much a slum. I was here before the yuppies "discovered it". You can see downtown huge on the horizon.

Tell you what, it looked and sounded damned surreal last night. My wife said it was "Lord of the Flies meet's The Crow" out there. People were building bonfires in their front yards. Screaming. Racing their cars. If this blackout were to have lasted a few days it would have gotten really Mad Max in the inner cities.

I am leaving all that for a small town on the North Carolina coast. Part of me will really miss this city. Warts and all.

(edited for really bad spelling)

[onecitizen]

4. And I'm glad I'm a Mountain Mama!!!!!

However, my city here in Huntington,WV had sympathy pains for the big cites last night. My power went off from 6PM till some time in the wee morning hours for no apparent reason that I know of. No storm, temps weren't particularly high.

[sendero]

6. a little over a year ago...

... my wife and I bought 40 acres of north Texas. We go up there most weekends, we've put in utilities, a trailer (for now), a shed, and bought a tractor :)

We *love* it up there and will retire up there in about 10 years. Meanwhile, we'll spend a great deal of our spare time there, clearing trees (mostly wooded), planting things and making the place our own.

There we've seen deer, turkey, racoon, skunk, roadrunner, cottonmouth, dragonflies, armadillo, rabbit, zillions of birds, herons of several varieties on our pond. The beauty of nature is stunning - I've lived in suburbia, the city, and the country and for my wife and I it is no contest at all. Now our kids have a different opinion, that's fine, they are kids :)

[markses]

7. I'm glad I'm a city person

So I don't have to put up with irritating, falsely superior country advice-givers all day. The perceived victimage and general muttering resentment of country people always amazes me: they are at once both put upon and better than everyone. "Me and my flashlight - Oh, I'm so self-sufficient; never will get you city folks blah blah blah." (Oh, was that too generalized? Awww, shucks. Just following the model.)

At the end of the day I love NYC because it gives the lie to this silly myth of pure individualism. We are a networked society, with the stress on society.

Second point of praise: radical difference, close, and in every direction. You are constantly confronted with the wild difference of cultures - there is an ethical sensibility attached to this.

And I have lived in the country (Schoharie, NY) for a while.

[sybylla]

10. I can't tell you how glad we are that you live there too. n/t

[markses]

11. Hardy har

n/tfu

[sybylla]

12. Never fails to amaze me how hypersensitive people can be

Bear talks about his own personal preferences and you take it personal. I guess it's okay to be paranoid if the whole world really is out to get you.

[markses]

24. If bear was talking about his own preferences, that would be fine

In fact, he was taking the opportunity to generalize and generally insult people who live in cities (and especially NY) for their perceived lack of self-sufficiency and preparedness.

"wassamatter with people that they don't have enough water stored for a weekend? sheesh....and a radio and flashlight?"

This isn't a "moral" judgment?!?

"of all places....New Yourkers still caught, trying to move down stairs in the dark. i just don't get it."

"i just cannot fathom the mindset that lets people go unprepared for emergencies."

Are these statements of personal preference, or explicit critiques of others (since I am a New Yorker, I take them to be a critique of the way I live as well, though I've been prepared - as have most people I know - for emergencies in every city I've lived in, including NYC and SF)?

The implicit critique here is that people in cities are not self-sufficient and that they are therefore less admirable than people in the country. If this is not an accurate account of bear's argument, I welcome him to correct it. I'm not sure how anyone can read his first post and not see it. If that's me being sensitive, fine. I think bear could easily have displayed his preferences for country living without degrading people who live in cities, and on a generalized basis for that matter. I myself have no problem with the way people live in the country (although I confess to finding it somewhat boring, as a personal preference). It's not clear why bear, on a day that New Yorkers showed - once again - the spirit of community at its finest (and something about the way community works differently may explain a perceived lack of "individual preparedness" in cities) - needed to snip at what he thinks is unpreparedness.

And yet I'm the rude one and the trouble-maker, for standing up for my communites. Fair enough. I'll keep standing.

[bearfartinthewoods]

26. did I say ALL city dwellers?

i implied nothing....i said that i don't understand the mindset of people who don't prepare.

pretty clear there.

please show me where i degraded city dwellers in general. i specificly complimented their reaction but questioned why the people i saw interviewed, who complained of the difficulty of descending 40 flights of steps in the dark, wouldn't have learned from 9/11 and had a flashlight handy.

same for the people of cleveland who needed to stand in line to get gallon jugs filled with water, 5 hours into an emergency.

very specific comments aimed at very specific behaviors. how you jump to 'degrading' generalizations from that is beyond me.

please....just read what i write and try not to read more into it in order to justify your predjucies.

[markses]

30. Universal quantifier is the default

when you use a plural noun. That's just basic logic. If I say

"Cats are ugly."

Most people assume that I mean ALL cats, unless I limit it with an existential quantifier or some other limiting operation:

Some cats are ugly
Your cats are ugly
Calico cats are ugly

You have to supply a limiting qualifier in order to specify. Plural nouns refer to the WHOLE group UNLESS you specify.

Moreover, even if I agreed to the notion that you implied a specification (Those New Yorkers who were caught without flashlight, some New Yorkers who didn't have any water), how would that justify your love of the country. The fact is that once you limit the critique, it serves no contrastive purpose anymore.

So, let's say that MANY New Yorkers were prepared. My building had incredibly effective glow-in-the-dark strips built into all the stair cases after 9/11. That's community preparedness. Most people I work with have several bottles of water stored in their offices, and most people I hang out with have plenty of water and supplies stored up in their small apartments. Now, what exactly differentiates us from country people that would even justify bringing up the comparison? Nothing, that's what. Oh, except for the fact that we "depend" on public transportation (in fact, I'd expect that a large majority of city residents COULD walk home, and that it was - with the exception of the far reaches of Queens and the Bronx - mostly suburban folks who depended (i.e., couldn't get home) without public transportation. But, in fact, many people pitched in and helped those folks as well (as they would do in the country if your car broke down, I assume?). So, what's the difference between the city and the country again when it comes to preparedness, if you're not generalizing?

There is no fucking difference. Just more people. And if there is no difference, then your entire reason for bringing it up is moot. You could have just extolled country life without degrading anybody, much less everybody. But you had to get your shots in. Instead of saying "We're good out here in the country." you had to say "Look how bad they are in the city (therefore, we're good in the country). See, they don't even have their own generators! Har Har Har!"

And yet you say I'M prejudiced, when I haven't said one bad word about the country, other than the mocking words in my first post which were simply an imitation of your insults (hence the phrase "I'm just following the model). But that's the point. I don't need to say ANYTHING nasty about ANYONE in the country in order to feel good about where I live. You, on the other hand, only draw your own positive out of other people's negatives. You're the prejudiced one here.

[bearfartinthewoods]

33. ok...your attitude is bizarre

i have repeatedly added the qualifiers you desire yet you persist in your line. why is that?

i have stated i have nothing against cities or city people other than the logistics and numbers of same, yet you persist in this delusion that my comments about specific behaviors reveal some deep seeded dismissal of city dwellers. why is that?

as to why i combined my apprechiation of country living with comments about the city....when faced with reruns of thousands of people walking in 95 degree heat, trying to get home the only way they can because the public transit is kaput and griping because they can't find a bathroom make me compare it to living in the country, i wrote:

"for me, i'll be content with the country, where i'm not dependent on public transit."

and

"i just can't deal the the numbers of people and the degree to which you have to be dependent on forces beyond your control. "

again, i said what i meant to say. even people who had cars, parked in garages in the city, could not use them to get out because there was no electicity to run the elevators that brought the cars to the surface. now if that isn't being dependent on forces beyond your control, i can't think of a better one.

also, again i ask , please don't read anything extra into what i said. especially if you want to call me out on your version of my sentiments. it's unethical.

for instance, i did not say:

"Look how bad they are in the city (therefore, we're good in the country). See, they don't even have their own generators! Har Har Har!" as you <b>imagine </b> i was thinking.

for miss cleo's sake...can't you understand that what i don't like about the city has nothing to do with the people in general? how in the hell are apartment dwellers going to have a generator? where would they run it? where would they store the gas? it's logisticly impossible given the density of people and the nature of cities.

that's precisely what i dislike about cities.

we have a generator because we lose power during snowstorms for days at a time. we have the space to run it and store gasoline. the logistics of our situation are different than those of a high rise dweller. it's not a matter of good or bad, it's a realistic evaluation of the differences in the scenerios. writing of preparedness reminded me that i needed to do a manintanence run on mine. that's all there is to that. you take a sentance and blow it into an attack on city people because they don't have generators?
bizarre.....

you wrote:
'There is no fucking difference. Just more people'

which makes a tremendous difference. that's my point.

i would rather be in the country, where i can be pretty sure that i will never have to be worried about being trapped in a hoard of thousands of people walking home and having no place to pee....it's that simple.

look.....i wrote a couple paragraphs of rambling comments spawned by watching and listening to people coping. i freely admit that my first thoughts were "thank gawd i don't live there". where i live.
i will never have to be in their situation and that makes me happy.

for some bizarre and unapparent reason, you decide i'm attacking you and your city. i have clarified just about anything i can think to clarify so if you are not appeased i'm going to start wondering why.

[markses]

39. Yes, you have added the right qualifiers

I'm glad you made those needed amendments.

As for "just more people," my beef all along was about the initial negative comments on preparedness, where you generalized without warrant and where you were at your most judgmental. Since you've backed off of that, I have no problem agreeing that the logistics are somewhat different, which I never disputed anyway (hence the difference between individual preparedness and community preparedness which I've argued for all along, and which ware a result of the logistical differences in any case).

And, I'll admit that I've been froggy on this thread, primarily because I was irritated by the first post, having just lived through another trying and yet wonderful day, filled with wonderful people in a wonderful New York City community, generators in the apartments, or no. I do think the post is unnecessarily generalizing, and negative without warrant.

What I saw on 9/11 was the best place in the world, and I saw it again yesterday - as a set of communities, not just prepared individuals.

[sybylla]

41. Interesting.

You demand qualifiers yet if you read the entire post, It would seem to me that the qualifiers were already in the context. No one else here didn't get it or misconstrued the point.

You have spent an entire day arguing over something that Bear didn't say in the first place. What kind of a crappy day are you having that you misplace your anger here?

If you would like, I can get out my dictionary and define every word for you, just to clarify Bear's post. You never know, some of those words have more than one meaning. There might be something else in there he was trying to say about you.

[markses]

42. I'm not "demanding" qualifiers

I'm pointing out that his characterizations weren't qualified, but very much referred - in the first post - to "New Yorkers" in general. This is not an idiosyncracy of my reading, but a logical and grammatical and contextual result of bear's phrasing. That's all I was trying to point out there. So, he was saying it. Since he's since qualified his post, I'm fine with that.

Perhaps I should have taken another tack, and just described how wonderful New York was yesterday, despite it all. That's the part that I think got killed by the "Why don't those people (unqualified) have their shit together yet, like me" business in bear's original post.

As for the rest of your bullshit, it's just that.

[sybylla]

45. My momma always said

you get what you give.

"As for the rest of your bullshit, it's just that."

The point is assuming an attack position against someone who had no intentions of attacking you is a waste of energy,time, bandwidth and BS. You could have saved Bear a lot of trouble if, in your first post, you had simply asked for clarification on what he meant. Life is so much easier for everyone involved when you take the time to sort out the real enemy from the percieved enemy.

[bearfartinthewoods]

18. thanks for reminding me of another reason i'm happy in the country

no need to put up with rude people if i don't want to.


eom

[markses]

25. I prefer learning to deal with others

Rather than retreating into a cuddly womb.

Even when they are as insulting as you are. It's an ethics thing.

[bearfartinthewoods]

27. pappy always tole me don't wrastle with the hogs, son.

you'll just get dirty and the hogs luv it.

did that fulfill your preconceptions?

[markses]

31. I have no preconceptions

I lived for two years in an old farm house in Schoharie NY. I have many rural friends. You're the one who has to down others in order to justify yourself, not me.

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. you seem to be more at ease with

simple concepts so i'll make this as simple as i can.

yesterday, a couple million people lost electricity.

that meant that even the unfit had to walk home.

i am happy that where i live, that doesn't happen.

when those millions of people got home yesterday, they did not have electicity.

where i live, i can have the opportunity to have electicity even in a blackout.

therefore, i am happy in the country. i would not be happy in the city.

clear enough now?

no good or bad people involved, (except the loonies who don't have flashlights and water), just the fact that i am happy in the country and was not happy in the city.

[markses]

38. It's much clearer than it was before

when you were attacking people in general without justification. At least here, you show some empathy for the situation, instead of your previous plain ole supercilious ha-rumphing.

As for concepts, I'll take 'em simple or complicated, as long as they're coherent.

[short bus president]

29. I like different things about country and city life

When I lived in NYC, it wasn't the "networked society" I enjoyed, but the anonymity afforded an individual within the crowd. When I go out for a walk here in the sticks of NC, my neighbors might see me out strolling and wave, or come over and say hi, which is fine, unless I wanna be alone. In the city, though, I could go out for a stroll and be utterly alone among the crowds - nobody was gonna approach me or address me or even really notice I was there. I truly dug that.

What I truly dig about being out in the sticks is that I don't see or hear my neighbors unless I want to. I can walk around naked in my back yard and no one will be the wiser (except the mosquitos). And perhaps the best part is that I can practice my guitar "playing" without having to worry that other people are hearing how badly I suck at it. It's given me alot of opportunity to get better at it. I can now even sing a few songs while I play, which was something I never even tried to do before, where people might have heard me.

[jonnyblitz]

35. I love NYC and would live there in a heartbeat if I could...

oh well..

[MuseRider]

8. SHHHHHHHH!

In the almost 10 years I have worked my farm slowly planning to move there I have seen 30 houses go up on my short trip there(10 miles). Everyone wants to move to the country so they buy up 3 acre lots and turn it into a damn neighborhood. This will be the third time we have moved to get away from housing developments. When you talk about the blissful aspects always remind them of the work it takes to keep land up. Windows open last night, nothing but frogs.

[slappypan]

14. we can't run from ourselves

When everyone finally tries get away from the evil, dirty, noisy cities, there will be no peace and quiet and open spaces left in the rural areas, at least the attractive areas. I fear there will be not be much room for wildlife and natural beauty when everyone keeps building hobby farms, trophy cabins, and waterfront condos, which are followed inevitably by outlet malls, fast food franchises, and big box stores.

[bearfartinthewoods]

19. did i say cities were evil, noisy and dirty?

sheesh...nothing i said was critical of anything or anybody except fools who live or work in high rises and don't keep a flashlight handy and anyone who doesn't keep a couple of gallons of water stored.

there are a lot of good things about a city. i miss the easy access to... well...everything. i just can't deal the the numbers of people and the degree to which you have to be dependent on forces beyond your control.

different strokes for different folks. but i know what you are saying about the sprawl. we bought 12 acreas but impacted less than 1/4 acre but our nearest neighbors seem to be on a crusade against trees. they worship at the alter of the lawn........:sigh:

[bearfartinthewoods]

23. well, i can do that for sure.

we had to rebuild the road twice after flash floods. even the two foot strip of grass that lines our road has to be cut. when the power goes out, we are the last ones to get it back because there are only about 20 people who live on this road. same goes for plowing..we can be three days without seeong a plow. you have to start a generator every month and run it or the gasoline will turn to muck and it won't work when you need it. we have to bribe takeout chinese delivery people to come this far out. had to replace the roof this spring. staining decks is a drag. sometimes there are bears.

hmmmm...does that help : grin :

seriously, there have been many times when i wished i could call the super to deal with "whatever".

but the feeling passes : evil grin :

[maha]

13. Toilets don't need electricity

My power was out for about 12 hours. The toilets worked fine. The plumbing was not affected.

I grew up in a very rural part of the Ozark Mountains in southern Missouri. Now I live in Yonkers, just outside NYC. I enjoy going home, but I know I couldn't live there any more.

More than anything else I love the eclective mix of people here. At home, the least derivation from a narrowly defined norm was cause for public shunning. Here diversity is celebrated.

I love the fact that I'm always within walking distance of fried octopus on arugula salad (or, at least, roasted beets with goat cheese). I love getting on a subway car and hearing seven different languages spoken, none of them English. I love the old ladies with orange hair and faux leopard pants. I love the way you can take off walking in any direction in Manhattan and find some kind of public Event going on.

Back home, you have to get in a car and drive, drive, drive just to go to a grocery store. Here I've got groceries, drug stores, hairdressers, dry cleaners, Chinese carryout, pizza parlors, and Dunkin Donuts a short walk away.

I don't have the quiet, nor do I see wildlife like foxes and quail run across my front yard in the morning. It's a trade off. But I think I'll stay here.

[John_H]

16. his do.

during my, thank god, brief time as a country boy we needed electricity to run the well which flushed he toilets. Living out there OK, but the final straw was when (and I swear to god this is true) all that was showing at our four theater "multiplex" was a steven segal movie, a chuck norris movie, and two jean claude van damme movies. Sorta made us think...

[bearfartinthewoods]

21. evidently, so does cleveland's

and anyone in NYC who lives in the upper floors. seems it takes electricity to pump water up to their toilets.

maybe it was a fluke, but every time i switched on the tube yesterday,
someone was complaining about trying to find a bathroom. i guess the problem wasn't as severe as it seem on the tube.

btw....your movie choices would have had me wondering too. we are lucky because we live within an easy 15/20 min drive of two university towns.

it helps counter the cultural deprivation.

[Dhalgren]

15. There were two things

that my son said, when he was just 4 or 5 years old, that have always made me proud.

One was when we were driving into the city and he spotted a big church steeple with a cross on its peak. He said, "Dad, what's that "T" for on top of that building?"

The other was when we were visiting my sister in the city and he asked her how she could stand having to get up all the time. "What do you mean?" she asked. "Well, if you get up to see who the car is, there's cars all the time!" We lived in such a rural setting that if we heard a car we would go see who it was, so he thought that was what everyone did.

edit: spelling

[Garbo]

17. Agreed

Ayuh, no powah out in Western Maine........

[SiobhanClancy]

20. I lived in the Lovell area for years

and I really,really miss the country. Granted,the city(in my case,Boston)has a lot to offer. However,everywhere you go there are too many people trying to do the same thing. I miss the stars at night,being able to walk in the woods or down to the lake anytime I like,the lovely stillness at night punctuated by the sounds of nature. It may be less convenient than the city in terms of services,shopping,etc but the peaceful quality of life and the closer connection with nature more than makes up for the minor inconveniences(IMHO)

[sasquatch]

22. I'm a farmboy/countryboy

I lived right next to my Grosspapa's farm when I was groing up. It had a sub-division moving in on us, because of that me and my brother befreinded the black family across the street. When I moved to the country I have no neibors but, the cool thing is I can piss in the front yard.

[kmla]

28. Mental note to me...

"Wear shoe rubbers when going to a BBQ @ Sasquatch's estate..."

:hi:

[Boudicea]

40. Your note to self cracked me up!

:)

[ArkDem]

32. Well

I got me a fine wife I got me a fiddle
When the suns comin up I got cakes on the griddle
Life aint nothin but a funy funny riddle

[geniph]

36. There's things I like about both

and people in any locale can be half-witted and unprepared. I'll bet there's rural folks in the affected area whose well pumps weren't working who were waterless, too. I've lived in the middle of a big city, and in a cabin without electricity or even a well, and everything in between. What I like about the city is being able to find interesting food, not having anyone raise an eyebrow about my lack of conformity, not having my neighbors know all my business, being able to walk to the market, and being able to find a great little theatre that shows independent movies. What I like about the country is peace and quiet, the ability to keep all manner of critters without bothering anyone, and a sense of community.

The place where I'm not happy, where I don't fit, is in the suburbs. I've never managed to be comfortable in the 'burbs - to my way of thinking, they've the worst features of both urban and rural lifestyles. You have to drive to everything, the traffic is awful, and there's always some asshole neighbor with obnoxious parties, barking dogs, and criminal teenagers.

I live in a small town a little ways from the big city now, and that seems a good compromise to me. I can go to the city without it being an all-day endeavor, but it's quieter and more peaceful where I'm at. I can walk to the store if I like, and I know my neighbors without everyone necessarily knowing everyone else's business.

[Skittles]

37. I'VE LIVED IN THEM ALL

Extreme rural, country, town, suburb, extreme city. I'll take the city anyday over the country.

[NightTrain]

43. Life ain't nothin' but a funny, funny riddle....

It's the only John Denver song that I can actually tolerate!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

44. I'm a city girl but I own a small generator

enough to keep the refrigerator and freezer running. I keep 6 5-gallon jugs of clean water at the house at all times and have the cupboard stocked with canned goods.

I have battery powered lamps and radios in the house and keep the cell phone charged at all times. I have maintained a wall phone rather than using strictly portable phones so that the phone is not dependent on electricity as well.

It's just good sense when one lives in an area that can have a major earthquake at any time.