George Lucas' sense of morality

[Archae]

Something that has bugged me for a long time about the Star Wars movies, as a whole.

It has to do with Anakin Skywalker. (Darth Vader)

In "Revenge of the Sith," he slaughters a number of little kids.
Personally.
Cripples a Jedi so the Emperor can kill him.

Kills his wife.

In the later movies as Darth Vader, gladly helps Moff Tarkin kill billions on Alderaan.
Tortures his daughter. Eagerly.

Cuts his son's hand off eagerly.

Turns his son over to the Emperor gladly.

Then saves his son's life, kills his Emperor.

That last thing makes him a good guy who becomes one with the Force?
I don't think so.

In the post "Return of the Jedi" book "The Truce At Bakura," he appears (somewhat) to Leia, and she rightfully wants nothing to do with her father.

[HopeHoops]

1. Okay - I'll take issue with the "tortures his daughter" part.

He knew Luke was his son but didn't know about Leia until Luke's thoughts betrayed her. Otherwise, yeah, that's sort of the Baptist "if you accept Jesus Christ as your savior, even on your deathbed, all sins will be forgiven" sort of deal and it is a little far-fetched.

I read somewhere that (among other revisions) the final scene of "Return of the Jedi" will have the child Anakin instead of the man. I think they also digitally fucked with the bar scene to make Guito (sp?) fire at Hans first (and miss at short range). Apparently that was the original intent but somehow it wasn't in the original version.

I saw the first movie when it came out. The theater was later split into EIGHT theaters!!! This place was huge and had a monstrous Roman curtain over the screen that was still rolling up when the opening story line scrolled over the screen. When Leia's ship came in from behind my head it was fucking HUGE! And THEN there was the cruiser behind it. That was beyond amazing. Other than a drive-in (which curiously we have near by), I don't know anywhere that has a screen even close to that large. The movies were a lot different on a 19" TV.

[Frank Cannon]

8. The Han Solo/Greedo scene has been changed a couple of times.

At first, it was changed to Greedo shooting first, then on public outcry, it was changed to Greedo and Han Solo shooting simultaneously, which is just as fucking lame.

Will George Lucas never stop screwing around with these movies? I am more convinced than ever that Lucas is not a genius, just a powerful control freak whose major successes came at the hands of people who had much better ideas.

[HopeHoops]

15. Even the first DVD release was screwed with - scene sweeps for changes.

The theater version just had abrupt changes of scenes. I haven't seen the simultaneous or Greedo-first scene yet (the latter at least was CGI), just read about them. They're apparently going to re-release them in theaters one per year over the next six years (or whenever they start). Theaters are too fucking small now to capture the impact of a movie like that. We've got an older theater (2nd run) that only charges $2 and a monster popcorn with unlimited refills is $4. I can take my wife and all three kids to a movie for $14!!! Okay, so you have to wait a few months for the movie to make it into that theater, but I'm not the "sleep in the parking lot line" category for movies. It won't kill me to wait or to never see one. Most movies I just wait for on DVD and either rent it from RedBox or buy it from K-Mart for $5. I won't pay $30 for a DVD when I know patience will let me get it for a sixth of that.

[freshwest]

2. It's said the the psychopaths who run this planet are now teaching us their value system with media.

They think it's the right one, and we'll all be better off if we adopt it. IDK.

[jobycom]

12. Which way?

Are we being warped by seeing Darth Vader accepted after his evil past, or are we being corrupted by constant revenge movies into believing that redemption is impossible?

[MilesColtrane]

3. He's a complicated man

But no one understands him but his woman

(just talkin' about Vader)

[hunter]

5. The story would be better if Padmé threw Anakin into a sarlacc...

Preferably during Anakin's pathetic "They're like animals, and I slaughtered them like animals. I hate them!" tantrum.

A partially digested Anakin pulled from the belly of a sand monster by Palpatine would make him more believable as a Jedi. We wouldn't have to see his face or hear his whiny voice again. He could put on a white Darth Vader suit and talk like James Earl Jones.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarlacc

[LeftOfSelf-Centered]

4. Agreed, and it really bothers me about the prequels.

I always thought Darth Vader was a great villain, utterly evil and ruthless. He did one good thing at the very end, but that doesn't change that overall he was a real bastard.

So when the prequels were announced, I expected to see the story of Anakin's slow descent into evil, to really get a feel for why he turned out the way he did. Instead we got a kinda creepy child, and subsequently a petulant, whiny young man. Lucas seems to really love the Anakin character and seemed to want to hang on to the positive characterization of him as long as possible. I generally just find him unbearable.

At the end of Episode II I was thinking something was wrong, because here was Anakin (who is supposed to turn into this terrible person in the space of just another movie) still a pretty good guy. He killed a bunch of sand people, but they aren't exactly the most neighborly species. And then, something that really bothered me in "Revenge of the Sith", he goes from being still a pretty decent fellow to being a murderous monster in a millisecond, like somebody flipped a switch. Suddenly he's killing people left and right and all apparently because he believes this will somehow help him save Padme.

To me the two characters (Anakin and Vader) a pretty much impossible to reconcile. Anakin's story gave me no insight into Vader. The only thing that they have in common is that I find them both unlikable; Vader for all the right reasons, because he's the villain, so you're not supposed to like him; and Anakin for all the wrong reasons, because Lucas created a character that I just want to smack until he shuts up (the awfully wooden acting by the actors didn't help).

Ok, enough ranting. :evilgrin:

[cemaphonic]

7. Yeah, the biggest (conceptual) problem with Anikin's role in the prequels...

Is that it's the same basic template as The Godfather(I and II). Now, I never expected Lucas to come anywhere near the greatness of those movies, but it was pretty amazing how he failed to make Anakin sympathetic or likable, or to make his turn to the Dark Side remotely convincing or compelling.

[Frank Cannon]

9. I agree. I, too, was hoping to see an Anakin that was much more sympathetic.

Someone who ended up just being terribly misguided. Someone that finally, after 20-some years, could have a moment of clarity and believably say, "Forsooth, what have I done?" and try to make amends.

But no, he's pretty much an insufferable douche from day one.

[LeftOfSelf-Centered]

16. Actually the first mistake might have been...

that he wanted to make Anakin likeable at all. He could have made Obi-Wan the positive hero of the movies (at least he had a good actor) and made Anakin more of a problem child.

Imagine this: instead of running into a child on Tatooine, they run into a teenage Anakin, who is aware that he has some strange powers and uses them to scam people and to eke out a living. Obi-Wan recognizes that Anakin is extremely gifted and takes him under his wing to try to bring him to the good side.

In episode two Anakin tries his best to be a good Jedi, but occasionally lapses when he abuses his powers to cut corners and influence people to his advantage. At the end of the movie he turns to the dark side under the influence of Palpatine.

Episode III chronicles Darth Vader's ascent to power in full on bastard mode, while Obi-Wan tries to thwart him. All the way to the big showdown between the two at the end.

Of course they wouldn't have had the dreamy shmoopy Anakin that Lucas seems so attached to, but maybe it would have been a more believable arc for the future Darth Vader.

[Orrex]

6. And what's up with Padme falling head over heels for him after he'd butchered those sand people?

Sure, she hangs out with him a bit before that, but it's only after he mows down a village full of men, women, children, and quadrupeds that he really wins her heart.

:wtf:

[Frank Cannon]

10. Typical teenage girl, always seems to go for those "bad boy" types.

Some seem to prefer "gangstas" or bikers, some won't settle for anything less than a mass murderer.

[jobycom]

11. I liked the movies more than most, but Lucas failed on Vader's progression, I thought.

I liked what he was trying to do--a good person whose compassion drove him to increasingly evil acts, until he lost his perspective, and probably his sanity. It was a good imitation of America at the time, invading other nations without regard for human life because we had been wronged. I wondered if Lucas had something different prepared, then altered the story to make a political statement, since the second one came out after 9-11.

But he never made Anakin likable enough. Christensen was such a bad actor and so unlikable that the character never had a chance. And it seemed like Lucas never had a real vision for him. Or maybe Lucas just realized that nothing he could do would overcome the bad acting (like Coppola's dealing with Keanu Reeves in Dracula). Whatever happened, he couldn't make the romance believable, he couldn't make the character likable, and so he could never pull off the descent into madness and evil. A good premise with terrible execution.

[AmyDeLune]

13. The problem is Lucas is not a terribly talented director of humans

He lucked out with the first three films; he had actors who would stand up to him and demand direction because he was not yet "the Great George Lucas".

In the prequels, the majority of the cast seemed completely abandoned in terms of direction; old hands like Ian McDiarmond(sp?), Christopher Lee, and Liam Neeson were able eke out some decent performances, but the younger cast seemed to be lost in terms of character motivation and basic logic. Lucas failed epically to fill his actors in on his vision of and for their characters. He seems to think they'll just figure it out, somehow.

To Lucas's credit however, when he was presenting an award at some writers' function or other, he had the humor and grace to say in relation to the prequels, "If someone had told I couldn't write, I'd have let someone else write them."

[Odin2005]

14. Lucas only decided to make Vader Luke's father when he made "Empire Strikes Back"...

...and "Return of The Jedi".