buying a used car - is carfax all it's cracked up to be?

[ellenrr]

I've read/heard different things.

It is good to get a carfax, but how much does it tell you?
I got one on car which indicates the car had an accident, but no details.
And you can get a carfax on a car which indicates no accidents, but that doesn't prove there were no accidents, just that they weren't reported.

It seems for every opinion, there is an opposite opinion.

Any thots?

[Gold Metal Flake]

1. A vehicle history check is VERY useful when buying a used car.

In late spring of 09 I set out to find a good used Focus. I was going to be looking at cars on lots and from private sellers. Some cars on Ebay and on used lots with online or craiglist adverts had Car Fax or Auto Check reports and I started reading them and comparing. When you see an unusual break in mileage records or some kind of warning about a repair or collision it's a red flag. You just can't tell sometimes by looking at a car, and I know how to look at cars.

I did sign up for a car history service but it was not Car Fax. I signed up with Auto Check http://www.autocheck.com. It was cheaper and the term was for two months not just one for the same kinds of reports. I checked out the VIN for every car I was interested in and some others that I knew I did not like just for fun. I looked at one Focus that I liked with a 5 speed but there was some body damage on the car that was unreported and the story between the husband (on phone) and the wife (in person) was inconsistent. Scratched that one off the list! I liked it, too, but I was not gonna risk several thousand dollars.

If a vehicle shows an accident, a person with extensive car knowledge may be able to find the affected area and make some decision of the severity and quality of the repairs. If there is no history of accidents and the seller tells you it was hit or if you see evidence of a hasty repair and no history of one then that is a clear indication that you may want to throw that fish back into the sea.

Eventually I settled on a one family-owned 01 wagon, 89k miles with a clear history and a visual inspection that matched. I had to change the rear shocks and the thermostat housing and there was filth from the first 8 years of their messy daughter that I cleaned up but it was a good buy at $2800 (it has actually increased in value to about $3600 in this market! Wierd.).

Be ruthless about quality when buying a used car. A sick little gearhead like me may be able to do wonders with an old Mustang but no one should make the mistake of falling in love with a flawed used vehicle that will become the "dependable daily driver". Better you have an "ugly" car (basic model with fewer options or an unattractive color or steel wheel w/hubcaps instead of alloys etc) that works every day than something pretty that takes day$ off with no warning. I used the auto Check service to help keep myself out of trouble. I often get way too optimistic about how I can bring back an old car. I simply could not allow myself to make a mistake and buy a "fixer-upper-this-is-no-problem" car that turned out to be a pig in a poke. Been there, done that.

So, one vote of yes for Auto Check.

[AngryOldDem]

2. I got a used car over the summer

CarFax told me who had owned it before me (it was a lease in the Chicago area) and accident history (dented fender, which I probably would not have noticed otherwise).

A few years back when I was looking I also asked for a CarFax. As I recall, nothing was on that report of any note.

But both times I was kind of surprised at the reaction I got from the salespeople. I could almost see their hackles rise, and their tone got a wee bit defensive. ("Well, yes, I suppose I can provide you with a CarFax..." Subtext: "But why do you want one?") Never understood why.

[fishwax]

3. it's not a guarantee, but it's still quite useful, I think

I've used it both times I've bought used cars, and have avoided some traps as a result. It looks like the price might have gone up a little bit since I used it, but even so, if you're measuring 45 bucks (for five reports) against thousands for the car (and potentially thousands more for repairs, hassle, etc. that you might avoid) then it's worth it. And if the service mentioned in the post above is cheaper and as reliable, then so much the better.

As you say, a clean report doesn't prove there were no accidents, but a report can alert you to problems that you might not otherwise know about and keep you from buying a car that looks like a good deal. Reports for some cars will be extensive and for other cars minimal--if you get a report that has an extensive record of standard service/checks then you may feel more confident that no reported accident likely means no accident. You can also find out if there are things like parts recalled, mileage inconsistencies, and so on.

[ellenrr]

4. thanks...

I decided against the one with the report of accident.
I think a reputable dealer will offer a carfax upfront, the one I am buying from does.

If they don't, I'm going to be suspicious. I was also suspicious that the dealer of the car with the accident report, didn't know anything about the accident. He bought it at auction, and I imagine he must have inquired. Perhaps didn't want to tell me.

anyway I am almost done with buying a used car. I have decided on a 09 Corolla for 12, 500. with 22,000 miles. I can't finalize til tomorrow cuz they are closed today, so will roam around a couple of dealerships to make sure I can't make a better deal.
Even tho it is a good time to buy a used car, I don't think I can get a better deal.

[MilesColtrane]

5. I pulled a CarFax report on the car I'm currently driving before I bought it.

It showed that it was a leased to one guy for the first 13K of its life, and there were no reported accidents.

96,000 miles and 7 years later it is still running like a striped jackass.

I went ahead and got the report before buying because consumer advocate guy, Clark Howard recommended it.

[usedcarinspections.]

6. Seven problems with a Carfax (or any Vehicle History report):

First, if the vehicle has been rebuilt (or salvaged) Carfax can only report this if the States’ DMV changed the vehicle’s title to “salvage, rebuilt, reconstructed, etc…” However, there are some states that do not indicate remarks on their titles such as “savage, rebuilt, true miles unknown, thief recovery, etc…” Also, if the insurance company does not notify the state that they have totaled a vehicle, the DMV will not change the title to ‘salvage, rebuilt, etc…” For example, a few years ago, State Farm was sued for not reporting over 30,000 totaled vehicles to the States’ DMV. Since the titles were never changed to salvage, Carfax shows these vehicles to have "clean" titles. These totaled vehicles were sold to salvage yards, patched together, and re-sold to the public with the original titles and a "clean" Carfax report. It is not uncommon for a professional pre-purchase inspection to find accident and frame damage on a vehicle when the Carfax report shows “no reported Structural / Frame Damage" or "Accident / Damage".

Second, there is no database for body & frame shops to report accident damage and repairs, and not all insurance companies disclose or share their accident information. Carfax readily admits that there are thousands of accidents, each day, which will never show up on a Carfax report. Even if Carfax reports an accident, it cannot tell you the extent of the accident damage, or the quality of any repairs. Only a professional inspection by a Frame Specialist can give you that information.

Third, used car dealers know the limitations of a Carfax report. Some dealers knowingly buy vehicles with frame and accident damaged which have a "clean" Carfax report. They sell these damaged vehicles to unsuspecting buyers showing them the “clean” Carfax before they purchase. Bad vehicles are purchased every day because the seller/salesperson talked the buyer out of a professional inspection by showing a "clean" report. A vehicle history report cannot tell the buyer the current condition of the vehicle.

Forth, Carfax does not have any type of reporting mechanism with the tens of thousands independent repair facilities across the United States. Most of the Carfax reports have little or no repair information compared to the millions of automotive repairs performed each day. Even if Carfax reports a repair, it cannot tell you if the problem was fixed correctly or if there are additional mechanical/electrical problems with the vehicle.

Fifth, some States require an annual safety and/or emission testing. A safety or emission test is very limited in its testing and like a repair history, it cannot tell the buyer the current actual condition of all the vehicle’s components and systems.

Sixth, Carfax is a "History" report. There is a time lag between when a vehicle's title was changed to reflect a "negative" comment and when Carfax actually reports the title's new information. This time lag can allow a damaged vehicle to be re-sold before Carfax can report the negative information about the vehicle.

Seventh, search the web for complaints against Carfax. Many consumers have filed complaints and lawsuits that Carfax deceives their customers by concealing the limits of the information it collects. When confronted by irate customers, Carfax hides behind their disclaimer. (FYI, Carfax does not allow phoned in complaints).

The perception for a used car buyers is that Carfax offers comprehensive historical information about used vehicles, but the reality is, the information contained in a Carfax report is incomplete, limited, misleading, may not be current, and in some cases totally inaccurate. This difference between the used car buyers' perception, and reality, will cause them to make bad decisions based upon incomplete information provided by a Carfax report.

A used car buyer should question the cost effectiveness of a vehicle history report. A Carfax report sells for $34-$45 vs. a professional pre-purchase inspection for around $150. Pay the $34-$45, and you still don't know the current condition of any mechanical or electrical system, you still don’t know for sure if the vehicle was in accident(s) or the quality of any previous accident damage, and you still don't know if the vehicle was abused or well maintained. Only a physical pre-purchase inspection by an ASE Master Technician (for all mechanical & electrical systems) and a Frame Specialist (for body and frame problems) can determine the true condition before you buy.

The ONLY way to determine the TRUE condition before purchase is to have the vehicle professionally inspected by an ASE Certified Master Technician for mechanical & electrical problems and Frame Specialist for previous accident damages.

The #1 reason bad cars are purchased is the buyers' inability to determine the true condition of the vehicle before purchase. A history report cannot be used to determine the true current condition of the vehicle. For more information about used car inspections, please visit the non-profit consumer site www.UsedCarInspections.ORG

[A HERETIC I AM]

8. Excellent post and Welcome to DU,

If you signed up just to answer that question.....that was nice of you.

A very well written, thoughtful and accurate post.

CarFax, as you indicate, can only report what it can find out and that is mostly when the cars VIN is entered into a database CarFax has access to.

Again, excellent post and welcome.

[dr.strangelove]

7. yes and no

One of the most valuable things a used car dealer can buy is a car with a clean title, meaning no accidents reported on the title. sometimes when a person owns a car and has no insurance on the vehicle other than liability, if the car is totaled, they do not report it to anyone. the body of a totaled car is worth more if its not reported. So they sell the wrecked car to a dealer, who can fix it and sell it as never having been in an accident because car fax or any other agency can not find the unreported damage. Same thing for flood or other damage. So while car fax is indeed a good thing, its not perfect. Have a mechanic review the car. He can check inside the panels for welds and look at the frame as well. He can tell if the car was ever in an accident. If he can not tell, then even if it was the repair was so good it shoudl not matter. A mechanic can charge a couple of hundred for a thorough review, or much cheaper for a quick inspection, but I would do something.