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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:25 PM
Original message
How about a LTTE campaign letting the people know
The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies
that may happen during the recess of the Senate,

by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

<http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitu... >

Bolton's opening did not happen during the recess.

For the Shrub to make Bolton a recess appointment would be illegal and unconstitutional.

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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. great catch
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. who's going to stop him if he does it anyway?
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DesEtoiles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. um...us? At least give it a damn try! Use the National Media list pinned
at the top of the Media forum on DU. Start mass-emailing this info.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I just emailed Randi to see if she would mention it.
Does anyone want to send it Jon Stewart? We have to get people to actually read the constitution.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. please email her again
You are off track here as I have been trying to point out.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Do you think the Courts or Congress might actually be willing to
DO THEIR JOBS? They might if we let them know that WE KNOW what they should be doing and don't like them not doing it.
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wli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. woops, the neofascists have both of those in the bag
What's the next line of defense?
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. well it might be illegal and unconstitutional
but I think we have gone all over this and the precedent goes back like about 200 years that the recess appointment can be used for any appointment other than a constitutional office (cabinet/supreme court) that is vacant when congress is recessed. The 'it has to become vacant during the recess' theory is not viable.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. That is in spite of what the constitution says?
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 08:42 PM by Vincardog
What precedent?
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. read em and weep
" Recess Appointments

Setting out from the proposition that the very nature of the executive power requires that it shall always be ''in capacity for action,'' Attorneys General early came to interpret ''happen'' to mean ''happen to exist,'' and long continued practice securely establishes this construction. It results that whenever a vacancy may have occurred in the first instance, or for whatever reason, if it still continues after the Senate has ceased to sit and so cannot be consulted, the President may fill it in the way described. 508 But a Senate ''recess'' does not include holidays, or very brief temporary adjourn ments, 509 while by an act of Congress, if the vacancy existed when the Senate was in session, the ad interim appointee, subject to certain exemptions, may receive no salary until he has been confirmed by the Senate. 510"

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/14.html#1

You might think the interpretation is at odds with the plain meaning of the text, but as I stated originally you will be fighting against 200 years of precedent.

Look, this is not all bad news. Bush is going to look like a sneak-theif sticking Bolton, recently exposed as a liar, into a job for which he is clearly unsuited. Bolton will arrive at the UN as a short-timer with zero credibility. We cannot stop the recess appointment, instead we should be celebrating the victory.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. actually re-reading it
Bush could actually make a supreme court recess appointment, and guess what? It would result in a bit of a constitutional crisis if the appointment were rescinded after congress reconvenes. Isn't that sweet?

here read this:
Judicial Appointments .--Federal judges clearly fall within the terms of the recess-appointments clause. But, unlike with other offices, a problem exists. Article III judges are appointed ''during good behavior,'' subject only to removal through impeachment. A judge, however, who is given a recess appointment may be ''removed'' by the Senate's failure to advise and consent to his appointment; moreover, on the bench, prior to Senate confirmation, she may be subject to influence not felt by other judges. Nonetheless, a constitutional attack upon the status of a federal district judge, given a recess appointment and then withdrawn as a nominee, was rejected by a federal court. 511
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/14.html#2

And here is the scary footnote 511:

United States v. Woodley, 751 F.2d 1008 (9th Cir. 1985) (en banc), cert. den., 475 U.S. 1048 (1986). The opinions in the court of appeals provide a wealth of data on the historical practice of giving recess appointments to judges, including the developments in the Eisenhower Administration, when three Justices, Warren, Brennan, and Stewart, were so appointed and later confirmed after participation on the Court. The Senate in 1960 adopted a ''sense-of-the-Senate'' resolution suggesting the practice was not a good idea. 106 Cong. Rec. 18130-18145 (1960).


http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/14.html#f511







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UrbScotty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
11. Thank you! Nominated!
:kick:
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. there is no constitutional issue here
" Recess Appointments

Setting out from the proposition that the very nature of the executive power requires that it shall always be ''in capacity for action,'' Attorneys General early came to interpret ''happen'' to mean ''happen to exist,'' and long continued practice securely establishes this construction. It results that whenever a vacancy may have occurred in the first instance, or for whatever reason, if it still continues after the Senate has ceased to sit and so cannot be consulted, the President may fill it in the way described. 508 But a Senate ''recess'' does not include holidays, or very brief temporary adjourn ments, 509 while by an act of Congress, if the vacancy existed when the Senate was in session, the ad interim appointee, subject to certain exemptions, may receive no salary until he has been confirmed by the Senate. 510"

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article...

Bush is acting entirely within the accepted long standing interpretation of the meaning of the recess appointment clause. Making this into a DU activist issue would be a mistake. I wish it were not true, but this is the way it is.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Ok as the SNL lady liked to say 'NEVER MIND' It was just a thought
anything to fight the Fascist agenda.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. oh i agree
and that is why bringing up activist ideas here for discussion is great: a thousand eyes get to review your ideas and warn you of pitfalls.

I find the truly scary part of my research on recess appointments that bush can essentially appoint anyone to the supreme court and short of impeachment and/or a constitutional crisis that the same supreme court would have to resolve, there is nothing the Democratic party can do about it.

But back to Mr. Bolton. I think a LTTE campaign is not a bad idea, but the framing ought to be that this backdoor appointment of the disgraced liar Bolton is an embarassment to the american people, that the Bush administration is so stubborn and pigheaded that no matter how wrong they are they will do anything to get their way.
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