Do any Activists believe in Direct Action or do you just sign petitions and collect signatures?

[Sadena Meti]

Just curious what the population of this board is like.

[HereSince1628]

1. I think illegal acts and anarchy aren't topics much

discussed here.

Also if a person is into taking action outside societal norms, and I'm not, then a public conversation on a public board with a newbie who could be a government sock-puppet is potentially pretty dangerous for the person and for the board.

[Sadena Meti]

4. Now now, I believe the rules say don't discriminate on post count.

But if you want proof, go to www.RevLeft.com and search though my nearly 1000 posts over the course of the years. I would have to be deep cover to be building an online persona for 5 years. Or check my own website, www.sadena.com which has been up since... gawd, 1996?

[HereSince1628]

6. I wasn't discriminating,

I was stating the obvious.

[radhika]

22. Public Forums are not amenable to discussing tactics...

... seriously, I mean this. Since so much of our political discourse has migrated onto the Internet, talk radio and tv, it's hard to find a open, intelligent strategy-minded forum where all types of actions can be discussed and debated. Let alone planned. We are all able to be heard - but that's not the same as effective. And we are not developing into a cohesive liberal movement as far as I can see.

On-air hosts and site moderators are uncomfortable with anything much beyond 1)call your officials 2) show up at a rally or 3) join a local political club. And I see their logic - we can't allow anything to be said that suggests we are planning a disruption or sit-in. That could be used against us by forces right and left, and would at the least invite the paid drones of decadence to counter-strategize. It is no surprise to me that the few effective actions being taken in 2011 came outside the Professional US Left. Anonymous/Wkileaks for one. They moved energy powerfully. And the same with those public employees in WI and now other states. They did their sit-in and recall drive without any big name liberal groups organizing. No support from institutional Democratic Party or federal Dems. Little support from msm.

Bradley Manning is out of Quantico thanks to Britain, Amnesty Intl and world outcry - not our system of justice, WH or Congress.

I personally do not know HOW to organize a direct action at this time. The natural instinct is to use the web and FB to launch -but it always ends up the same useless crapola of petitions and fundraising memos that ask us for $$$$ to SEND A MESSAGE TO XXX' or 'STAND WITH US'.

[Vinnie From Indy]

2. What does "direct action" mean?

Welcome to DU!

[Sadena Meti]

3. Direct Action can mean many things.

Technically a protest or a boycott is a form of a Direct Action, just a very week one. Stopping the boycotted product from ever getting to market, that's a much stronger Direct Action.

It's much more common in Europe than in America.

[Vinnie From Indy]

5. And how would one "stop" a product from getting to market?

Cheers!

[Sadena Meti]

7. Could be as mild as a labor action spoiling the goods or as strong as a transport disruption.

[Ferret Annica]

8. My arrest record for trespassing and disorderly conduct is part of my legacy as an Earth First!er

If people are not willing to risk arrest or conflict by conducting dissent involving the breaking of laws or put their body on the line if the political process fails them, they become little more than slaves and serfs.

[No Elephants]

9. If you have violence or other lawbreaking in mind, you got your answer in Reply 1.

Read the board rules. (For me, "lawbreaking does not include civil disobedience, where the "disobeyer" is out in the open and ready to be jailed, ala Emerson, Ghandi and MLK, Jr.)

If you have something else in mind, perhaps it would help if you were less vague and get more specific. For instane, what exactly do you mean by terms like "transportation disruption?" And please don't give a response like 'It could be...."

You seem to be assidously dancing around what you really mean, and that's both tedious and suspicion inducing, whether you have 10 posts or 100,000.

[Sadena Meti]

10. Civil Disobedience often is lawbreaking, or you wouldn't be arrested for Disorderly Conduct.

Man I wish this forum had "Reply with Quotes" I miss vb

"Read the board rules. (For me, "lawbreaking does not include civil disobedience, where the "disobeyer" is out in the open and ready to be jailed, ala Emerson, Ghandi and MLK, Jr.)"


How about X?


"If you have something else in mind, perhaps it would help if you were less vague and get more specific. For instane, what exactly do you mean by terms like "transportation disruption?" And please don't give a response like 'It could be...."

You seem to be assidously dancing around what you really mean, and that's both tedious and suspicion inducing, whether you have 10 posts or 100,000."

I'm getting a feel for my audience. Judging the mood of the room. OK, here's a what if. Doesn't really work were I am because I'm land locked. A shipment of sweatshop shoes comes in from overseas. The cargo containers are loaded on to trailer beds. The activist attaches time delayed spike strips to the tires (you'd be amazed how easy these are to make). After a few miles, all the trailer bed tires go flat.

Criminal damage to property and probably some trespassing thrown in on top. If the trucker loses control at 65mph you might get Reckless Endangerment, but a trailer blowout just turns the bed into a sled.

Chaining gates is another example of Direct Action. Trespassing.
Superglue in locks. Criminal Mischief.
Both good ways to shut down a business instead of just boycotting it.

You see I'm used to www.RevLeft.com where these ideas are thrown about in the open. Hell, you usually would commit Sedition every hundredth post.

I want to get a feel for the populace here.

BTW, the rules, short as they are, even in expanded form, do not prohibit the discussion of illegal or criminal activity, just Sedition.

[No Elephants]

13. "Civil Disobedience often is lawbreaking, or you wouldn't be arrested..."

no kidding.

On your other points:

I am not sure if someone who seriously suggests everyone should throw bricks through store windows of everyone who sells, say, lettuce, would get banned from DU after the first such post. I think the post would be deleted if alerted on, though. So, I am not sure if your questions will help you gauge the population of the board or only to gauge the policies of the board. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sedition

No telling what responses you'd get from some folk here if you were on a board whose policies were different because I think some here might indeed dbe amenable to flattening tires, while others would be horrified. Remember, though, this is "Democratic Underground" not "Radical Underground."



As for me personally, I have no problem with strikes, pickets boycotts, marches or other activity, even if an incidental result of that would be to shut down someone's business--as sit ins in the Fifties might have shut down an eatery--or damage private property or even hurt someone, as when police get physical unnecessarily and scuffles ensue.

However, it would take a lot for me to set out with the immediate goal of getting someone hurt physically or having someone's property damaged for a "greater good" that may (or may not) ultimately result one fine day.

So many think what they want--like lower taxes or free speech for corporations or an end to the war or a nuclear ban or single payer, will ultimately lead to "the greater good." I agree with only some of those things. Therefore, I am very reluctant to endorse an "end justifies the means" philosophy, much less live one.

I rarely rule out anything entirely and forever--"never say never" and all that. However, I have not done anythig like that yet and getting me to do anything like that would take a great deal--not sure what. But, has my activism been confined to signatures? No.

(Edited to delete "with D.C." from the end of the subject line.)

[MineralMan]

11. The best way to find out what a board is like is to read

for a while before beginning to post. I've always found that works better than provocative posts. Maybe it's just me.

[No Elephants]

14. A direct question is fine, Seeking info while not saying what you really mean, however,

is not likely to get you info, even bad info.

JMO

[MineralMan]

15. Well, yes. Of course.

An even worse plan is to jump in and try to push as many buttons as possible to test the limits. Or so it seems to me.

[No Elephants]

18. Maybe the poster is only trying to find out if s/he should spend any more time here?

[MineralMan]

19. Maybe. That's certainly a possibility.

[Festivito]

12. Are any of your actions such that if you were on your own jury, you'd find yourself guilty?

Jury nullification allowed.

[MineralMan]

16. Well, since the poster self-identifies as a

"revolutionary anarchist," I'd guess not, really. In fact, would a jury even be necessary in an anarchy? The usual tool of the anarchist is disruption, which seems to be what this OP is generally proposing.

[No Elephants]

17. you may want to be more specific.

Some folks think lawbreaking for a good social cause means they are not "guilty."

[Sadena Meti]

20. I'm not being specific because I have nothing in mind.

I'm just filing away information for future use. I mean, there is a Hitler Memorial in Wisconsin that I've got bee in my bonnet about... but that seems to be fading in to obscurity.

[rhett o rick]

28. Great question. At my job, whenever I was asked to submit a self eval, it was always glowing. nm

[Citizen Worker]

21. Direct action is too long overdue.

[Downtown Hound]

23. I've participated in a Black Bloc led breakaway march

in San Francisco during the run up to the Iraq War. There was no property destruction but it did turn into quite a boisterous time with the police chsing a crowd of 500 of us up and down Market Street. Video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV1mHXqmi-o

I was arrested blockading the financial district of San Francisco during the Day X (the weekend the Iraq war broke out) protests. No video available.

I was arrested again blockading an intersection outside of San Francisco's state supreme court when they upheld Prop 8 two years ago. Video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB1SzihxCRY

I personally have taken a vow of non-violence (which includes not destroying property), but I do not condemn those that engage in property destruction or vandalism of corporate property (the black bloc, ELF, ALF). I do draw the line at pyhsically harming human beings though. I have and will engage in civil disobedience again.

I could care less what government stooges or law enforcement personnel read this, I'm quite open about my belifs and am willing to spend time in jail for them.

[JayceR]

24. Depends on what you're talking about by "Direct Action"

In this context, Direct Action sounds like it could be anything from work stoppage to acts of extreme violence like presidential assassination. Without peaceful protest and democracy, I believe we are no better than the terrorists.

[BrendaBrick]

25. Just my take on this:

You ask in the original post: Direct Action v. "just" signing petitions and collect signatures?

"Just" signing petitions can and does work. Nope. Not all the time. In fact, the odds are really against it - but given a choice - I side with adding my one, little (seemingly lone...but not really) voice to the mix...and who knows? Sometimes it is well worth the effort....COLLECTIVELY!!!!!!

See - that's my bone to pick. We have almost been brainwashed/relegated to support the "belief" that our one little voice doesn't stand a chance....so why bother? Right?

WRONG! That's the power of solidarity. Of standing together in a non-violent way to bring about social change. Sure, it doesn't work ALL the time....in fact - most of the time - but sometimes....it DOES - and for that is plenty reason enough for me to keep on signing petitions. To keep on telling folks that their voice DOES matter. To 'take to the streets' for rallies and such. So much easier to just 'throw in the towel' and think that our one voice doesn't matter - so why bother?

Why bother? Because no one said that "Running Against The Wind" (as Bob Seger (spelling?) sang about...) would be easy.....but considering the results from NOT participating AT ALL - on ANY LEVEL...will surely bring more of the same and therefore - in this sense - who was it that said if you are not part of the solution....you are part of the problem?....Probably rings true there - in this instance!

I think and feel in my heart of hearts that we need and have to give ourselves much more credit then that........don't you???????

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

27. I believe in direct action.

Non-violent civil disobedience is long overdue on many issues, including GITMO, jobs/trade pacts, the wars, survellience -- the Left under Bush made itself heard and felt on many occassions. Now there is a "D" in office, we have all but disappeared from the scene.

[Cereal Kyller]

29. But if you're talkin' about destuction/

Dontcha know that you can count me out?

I think it's gonna be...all right

[yurbud]

30. non-violent maybe

[GreatLaker]

31. Petitions rarely sway the politicians.

Petitions let the politicians know that there are organized campaigns, but it takes actual in-person activity to make it real for them. Arrest and civil disobedience are only effective in rallying opposition - stopping into the politicians offices is my preferred mode of action. Look them in the eye and let them know what you think.

[duhneece]

32. Yesterday, the NYC Mayor's office, today the CA Gov's office

Yesterday, I spent time on the phone at the NYC Mayor's office about the macing of protestors; today I was on the phone with the CA Gov's office about the prisoners' fasting strike at Pelican Bay & other prisons & jails.

Last week (was it only last week?) I spent hours phoning and faxing about Troy Davis. I am still in deep mourning about Troy.

We fought our conservative community to produce The Vagina Monologues; we have had a booth at our county fair opening the community to a discussion about the failure of the Drug War.

We all do what we can, I hope. I watch inspiring films and books when I get down.