Dean, what was he thinking

[douginmarshall]

Look at this statment that Dean made. This is in the Post today.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9661-2003Dec17.html

Dean, for instance, recently spoke of a "most interesting theory" that Saudi Arabia had "warned" Bush about the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. Although Dean said he does not believe Bush was tipped off about the assaults that killed nearly 3,000, he has made no apologies for raising the rumor.

"How is what I did different from what Dick Cheney or George Bush . . . did during the time of the buildup of the invasion of Iraq?" the former Vermont governor said Tuesday night aboard his campaign plane. "There were all these theories that they mentioned. Many of them turned out not to be true. The difference is that I acknowledged that I did not believe the theory I was putting out."


:crazy:

If he is using Bush as the standard, how can we ever trust what he says? Why not say there is a rumor, not saying it is true, but a rumor that X sleeps with little boys.

This is how the Rep. work. I thought we were better.

:shrug:

If you are not already for Dean why would you switch now?

[artr2]

1. Go up and look at the archives for general discussion

this has ben brought up, oh about 100,000 times. And been debunked, oh about 100,000 times. Old news


edit:spelling

[boxster]

2. The problem is that he's setting standards for behavior based on Bush.

Shouldn't we strive to be better than Bush and Cheney? I don't think our goal should be for our accomplishments to be measured by the "just as good as Bush" standard.

"He did it, too!" is not a winning argument.

[Democrats unite]

12. We all do not have photographic memories.

And if what you say is true, so what? The article he is discussing is dated today. I don't have search features here SO I can not find thinhs that have been posted awhile ago here.


P.S. If you care to debunk them for us now go ahead or move on.

[boxster]

23. Um, did I miss something? I think my posting completely agrees with the

original.

Shouldn't we strive to be better than Bush and Cheney? I don't think our goal should be for our accomplishments to be measured by the "just as good as Bush" standard.

"He did it, too!" is not a winning argument

I don't see anywhere that I referred to previous things, etc. And, I'm completely agreeing that we shouldn't use Bush as a standard, because Bush is a complete loser. We need to strive for more than "I'm as good as Bush".

[boxster]

24. Never mind. I think you meant to respond to Mr. Dean Supporter above.

Had me a little confused there!

[phillybri]

3. This comment is like "push-polling"...

That the GOP loves so much and used to smear John McCain in the South Carolina primary.

They would have pollsters call people in the area and ask questions like:

"Would you feel differently about John McCain if you found out he had a black love child?"

I think Dean should avoid this kind of stuff. I fully understand the need to raise the issue, but he should frame in a way that questions why Bush is so beholden to and willing to cover for Saudi Arabia...

[mikehiggins]

4. Who sleeps with little boys?

Look, IMHO the thing to do is concentrate on winning the primaries. There is nobody left who is likely to be influenced by "how can we trust" arguments.

The Deaniacs are set in stone, and frankly, we Clark fans are just as flexible. Its time to can the rhetoric and get down to cases.

Are you READY to RUUUUMMMMBBBBLLLLEEEE!!!!!

Three months from now, or so, we'll be presented with one candidate. Let's hope we can all put as much energy and passion into putting that person into the White House as we do around here arguing over who that should be.

ABB RULES!

[sandnsea]

5. If I had a dollar

For every crazy ass thing Dean has said... man what a Christmas!!!

[dajabr]

7. Crazy like a fox...

U.S. News: Bush's Veil of Secrecy
After a five-month investigation, U.S. News and World Report has published an in-depth study of the Bush administration's unprecedented moves to keep its workings away from public scrutiny.

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/031222/usnews/22secrecy.htm

CBS News: 9/11 Chair: Attacks Were Preventable
CBS News reports:

For the first time, the chairman of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks is saying publicly that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/eveningnews/printable589137.shtml

[sandnsea]

17. Saudi Arabia warning????

Does any of this say Saudi Arabia specifically warned Bush about airplanes crashing into buildings on Sept 11 or even in the month of September?

[dajabr]

19. is there any clear evidence that "Bandar Bush" didn't make a call?(nt)

[sandnsea]

21. ???

Try again.

[Military Brat]

6. It's my understanding Dean raises the theory in order to quash it

Dean's position is that if such theories, whether conspiratorial or not, are not addressed in an open forum, then it leads to speculation and misgivings that the theories (and their attendant rumors) are true. I think what he's saying is that if there is any plausibility at all, it needs to be explained and dismissed immediately.

[dajabr]

8. That is absolutely what he is doing.

What is so difficult about comprehending this?

[boxster]

10. Because it isn't true!

Geez, you guys are incredible at spin.

Did you see the actual interview? It was completely obvious that Dean's intention was to bash the Bush administration.

With good reason. Considering the recent revelations put forth by the 9/11 commission, the "theory" is very possibly true.

[boxster]

9. Oh, please. You must be joking.

He brought it up to give it life and to insinuate that it was true. You obviously didn't see the video of this interview, because that's exactly what his intentions were.

Pretty impressive spin, though, on your part.

By the way, I'm surprised that no one is supporting the possibility that the theory is correct. With the recent acknowledgment (by the head of the 9/11 commission) that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented, it's very possible that this "theory" represents reality.

Bush was obviously warned by the Clinton administration, so it is very likely he was warned by the Saudis, as well.

[phillybri]

11. He's right to say this....It's the method that is the problem...

This smacks of push-polling...

[w13rd0]

13. Well...

...yeah, I guess it is a little like push polling. Dean says the stonewalling gives rise to rather wild theories, like...putting that theory out there. Dean, Clark and Kucinich have all made statements about 9/11. So have many of us here. And day after day, the theories are being demonstrated to be fairly accurate representations of events, details of which are being obscured and buried by the Bush administration. Of course I don't have a problem with the "wild theory", because I think it's actually far more likely than the 'coincidence theory' fronted by this administration.

Bush dropped the ball, Cheney ordered a shoot down, they were warned, they sat on their damn hands. Be it malice or just neglect, they displayed remarkable failure in their duties, and NO ONE has been held accountable for those failures...

[Nazgul35]

14. that's because you have reading comprehension skills....

unlike some who either didn't understand what was said or are so blinded by their desire for Dean to do poorly that they trip over themselves to make glaring mistakes in comprehension....

And we Dean supporters are the blind ones....

Perhaps if you would take a look here...as this person breaks it down so I don't have to...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2003/12/18/132159/45

[dajabr]

15. Click link make mad!

Me no want to click link - link bad!

:dunce:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

25. Good breakdown

It boggles the mind how people just don't listen to what is actually being said.

Meanwhile, blame for 9-11 is suddenly a big story. Bush knew. Having the issue raised by Dean is icing on the cake.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Snip

Dean's problem is not that he's too "off the cuff" or "chooses words unwisely" or "flip flops" -- the problem is that he is speaking to morons half the time.

[douginmarshall]

18. Nice try

Dean countered by suggesting that administration officials misled the American public in the run-up to war: "How is what I did different from what Dick Cheney or George Bush or Rumsfeld or Perle or Wolfowitz did during the time of the buildup of the invasion of Iraq? There were all these theories that they mentioned, many of them turned out not to be true. The difference is that I acknowledged that I did not believe the theory that I was putting out. They professed to believe the theories they were putting out, which later turned out not to be true."

How is what I did different from what Dick Cheney or George Bush or Rumsfeld or Perle or Wolfowitz did during the time of the buildup of the invasion of Iraq?

The point is that it is not different. If it is wrong for Bush it is wrong for Dean. This sounds like Nixon supporters saying everone does it he just got caught.

I thought this election was about taking back this country from this sort of crap. We must be better. This is what pissed me off about Clinton. I supported him up till the end. He lied to me. I was always able to say Dems. are better. I lost that and I want it back. Maybe I was young and stupid.

[dajabr]

20. How do you know it is not a true allegation?

Dean said HE did not believe it was true, but the greater point he raised is "How do we know for sure?"

[douginmarshall]

31. I guess we can say anything

:crazy: :silly:

Do we really want a president, the head of our party who will run anything up the flag pole to see who solutes? I hope not. This is one of the reasons I am having a hard time with Dean. I want someone who I can respect. I talk to my kids about values and what it means to be a member of our family. I also feel that way about my party. I became a Dem. because they were the one's who stood up for what was right. I want a President that I can tell my kids to look up to. My daughter, only 11, has been wearing a Clark pin, I want to feel good about her doing that. I don't want to need to spin his quotes to make it OK for my kids to support. I would never except from my kids an explanation for their behavior, well dad it may be true. I won't except it form my candidate.

We all get to choose who we like and why. I have to be comfortable with my choice. Will I support Dean if he is the nominee? Yes, but not with the ame intensity.

[Jim Sagle]

16. Here's Bush's reaction.

http://images.indymedia.org/imc/washingtondc/media/video/6/9_11laugh.mpg

Bush knew.

Now we know he knew.

[Egnever]

22. I think its great!

And is exactly why he is sure to win if he goes up against bush. He isnt afraid to play thier games and in the process of doing so also point out what a game they are playing. I think its one of his best qualities that make him almost a sure winer in the GE.

Bush is a walking mine field of issues like the 9-11 thing, clean skies vets benefits, energy meetings, haliburton, awol, NCLB funding, WMD, this list sometimes seems endless. Time and again dean proves he can get these issues into the news and make them an issue again. As long as he frames the debate we win.

Sadams recent capture was a perfect example of why people like Kerry Ghep Lieberman and Edwards wont win despite being way better candidates than bush. As soon as Sadam is troted out they gave up on the debate. All hail the comander in chief! :puke: and then bush controls the debate and we lose.

The diference as dean pointed out is...."The difference is that I acknowledged that I did not believe the theory I was putting out"

I love this guy! He sees the game the republicans are going to try to play clearly and he isnt afraid at all to play it if they want to.

I also love that time after time after the initial pile ons he ends up being right and most people end up on his side of the debate.

Confederate flag flap for example two days of what a racisit pig! Followed by almost a week and a half of, I think what he was trying to say is exactly right! It just could have maybe been said better.

In the end everyone prety much knew What dean was saying and prety much everyone agreed with the sentiments. Dean wins!

this thing has all the earmarks of the same exact situation. First the big pile on of the How DARE hes. And now Kane coming out and saying 9-11 could have been prevented! Who is going to end up looking right in the end? Dean

Dean wins again in the week that should have been one of bushes biggest what with capture of sadamy.

This guy is going to bring bush down hard and its going to be an amazing thing to watch.

GO DEAN 04!!!
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Northwind]

26. He was thinking...

"I wonder if it will be fun when I am living in the White House?"

[douginmarshall]

28. Sam Donaldson on this issue

Just listened to Sam talk about this comment. He said he does not think Dean is ready for Prime time.

He could not believe this line of thinking was coming from a presidential candidate.

[CTLawGuy]

30. wow, the whore media

doesn't like Bush criticism!!!!!??!?!?!?!

what a shock.

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Not believing the theory you are putting out

Is simply trying to have it both ways. Trying to take credit from those who like to see it out there without taking blame from those who think it is way out of bounds.

Or look at it in another simpler context, think about someone saying something like "I heard Joe came home from work late last night because he is cheating on his wife. Of course I don't believe that".