Again...Dean takes risks to oppose Bush...and is right

[helleborient]

So...Howard Dean lets the rumors of Bush complicity in not preventing 9/11 hang without disavowing them...and is savaged from both Republicans and Democrats for not opposing such a "horrible" suggestion. Now there is this story today from CBS News:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/eveningnews/printable589137.shtml

"For the first time, the chairman of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks is saying publicly that 9/11 could have and should have been prevented, reports CBS News Correspondent Randall Pinkston."

Dean also says we're not safer in the U.S. simply because Saddam Hussein has been captured...and is savaged by both Republicans and Democrats for this stance against the Bush administration. Another American soldier dead this morning.

Howard Dean has the guts and conviction to stand up to the Bush administration where others run to hide behind him.

[EdGy]

1. and that's the only way the Dems will win

They won't win by going along with Bush.

They will win only by standing up and very loudly and aggressively showing Americans why Bush is totally wrong in his policy toward Iraq, and toward the rest of the world more generally.

[vi5]

5. Yeah, people love this stuff...

And they love to be told that they are wrong, or ignorant, and they are being duped. And they are also really good about when someone gives them information even in a really nice manner that counters what they currently believe, that they absorb that information thoroughly and seek out additional news sources and other data and take it all into consideration so that they chang their views.

And people love negative campaigning. Attack ads, attack ads, attack ads. I can't stress that enough.

[Demobrat]

17. Are you Gephardt's campaign manager?

Congratulations. Your strategy for separating Dean from his supporters is working wonderfully. Keep it up.

[eileen_d]

27. that gave me a good chuckle

"they love to be told that they are wrong, or ignorant, and they are being duped"

Considering you were being sarcastic... I agree with you.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

2. He said Saudi Arabia warned Bush

That's not the same thing as saying people in our intelligence communities didn't respond correctly. They are wildly different.

And being safer today because Saddam was captured isn't what anybody means. It's long term. Even Clark says:

"Capturing Saddam increases our chances for success.

If we succeed in Iraq, America will be safer. If we fail in Iraq, our enemies will be emboldened."

http://clark04.com/speeches/021/

Howard Dean is an absolute disaster and embarrassment to the entire party.

[helleborient]

4. Clark and Kerry are disasters and embarrassments on the campaign trail

Losing over half your support with dogged campaigning sounds disastrous to me.

Going from 22% to 12% in the CNN/Gallup/USA Today national poll for Clark sounds pretty disastrous as well.

What exactly is it that ordinary Democrats dislike so much about Kerry and Clark that could be turned around in a general election?

[sandnsea]

6. Dean loses to Bush 60 - 37

And 75% of the party doesn't want him. So I'd say ordinary Democrats are thinking clearly. We'll come around to somebody besides Dean by Feb. Of that I'm certain.

[LuminousX]

7. What percentage of the party doesn't want Kerry or Clark?

[helleborient]

9. According to CBS News, 96% don't want Kerry, 90% don't want Clark...

This is the link...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/opinion/polls/main589167.shtml

So who is this "somebody besides"? You were certain Kerry would be leading by now as well - your crystal ball has a serious malfunction.

[sandnsea]

11. Dean won't win

These national polls are largely based on media perception of Dean as the runaway frontrunner. Just like they used to show Lieberman as frontrunner. As soon as the field narrows, people will look more closely at who is left and what they are really about. Then we'll actually have a primary and Dean isn't going to win it.

[Demobrat]

15. You poor thing.

I feel sorry for you. I guess it's true that denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[helleborient]

21. And who will be left?

Just curious what your seriously flawed crystal ball has to say...

[caledesi]

24. Yeah, and they said he was some "nobody" from Vermont who

wouldn't go anywhere. Keep believing this.

Dean will be our next president.

[swittersnc]

10. show some proof

that 75% of the party doesn't want him.

[sandnsea]

12. The poll

He's got all the media attention and only 25% support. 75% aren't impressed. If they were, they'd already be supporting him.

[swittersnc]

13. "the poll"?

what poll are you talking about?
every poll i've seen in the last three days has significant support for dean and virtually no support for kerry.

[sandnsea]

16. Sorry, the CNN poll

Just posted somewhere in here. 25% for Dean means 75% don't want him, even after all the publicity he's gotten.

[swittersnc]

18. so, by this poll you put so much stock in

how much of the democratic party doesn't want kerry?

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[swittersnc]

20. taking this to an early primary level

according to zogby,
91% of iowa democrats don't want kerry
88% of nh democrats don't want kerry
100% of sc democrats don't want kerry

[LuminousX]

23. You can't interpret polls in that way

[CTLawGuy]

26. lame argument....

reeks of Kerry...

Your candidate is going down on Jan 19th, on Jan 27th, on Feb 3rd, and March 2nd should he stay in long enough to lose his own state...

Let the voters decide. and they will.

[tedoll78]

28. There's a logic discrepancy..

it is possible to be impressed by two candidates concurrently and pick one over the other. Nice try though.

[polpilot]

32. Dean loses to Kerry. Oh..sorry...that was 10 months ago.................

Dean '04...

[polpilot]

33. Dean loses to Gep...Oh...sorry that was 10 months ago..............

Dean '04...

[polpilot]

34. Dean loses to Joe...Oh Sorry...that was 10 months ago............

Dean '04...

[He loved Big Brother]

35. LOL

Nice. :D

[Upfront]

36. No Way!

B### said America is now safer because he caught Sadam. Dean said we are not safer and it makes no difference. Dean is right. To keep it simple, code orange. I rest my case. B### is the guy were after, remember? Feel bad for Kerry if you wish, but don't attack the other guy, if you want B### back in Texas.

[mandyky]

40. No, that's not quite what he said

Diane Rehm asked Dean about the 9-11 report and Dean said that the current administration needs to complete the investigation and get the report our, because if they don't it drives the conspiracy theories. Then Dean said one of the most interesting theories he'd heard was that the Saudis warned idiot boy in advance. I listened to that show, and although I am paraphrasing Dean no way accused idiot boy - he just said keeping secrets breeds conspiracy theories and gave one example...

[CMT]

3. Thank you, Mr. Kean

and thank you Howard Dean. Now lets pick this up and run with it. Make this front and center in the campaign and for God's sake ask "Where is Bin-Ladden? and why did Bush divert the real war on terrorism to attack Iraq?"

[Larkspur]

8. Yup, this is why I love the Gov

Howard Dean has the guts and conviction to stand up to the Bush administration where others run to hide behind him.

Dean is Truman reincarnate.

[He loved Big Brother]

30. I agree

And I am too young to remember Truman but what I've learned about him in my life makes me long for Dems like that in our party.

[ozymandius]

14. OH FOR GODS' SAKE!

Please don't put the Republicans on the defensive. Certainly a recipe for disaster. Of course, I am being sarcastic.

This is a wonderful tool out of the Republican toolbox to use against them. Exert the force of innuendo against them a-la Willie Horton and McCain's "black" daughter. See what happens.

As for the Demcocrats savaging Dean for entertaining these notions - Fie! It appears that the abbreviated statements coming from the Keane commission's findings dovetail nicely with Dean's comments.

[loyalsister]

22. Finally!

An editorial I read about an upcoming primary described the way the Republicans would treat the two candidates. Holden is considered a wimp and the pukes will assail him on that end. They will also attack some stupid spending ventures. His opponent, on the other hand is not well known. They Republicans will define her IF she doesn't find a way to define herself in the media first.
We have to stop playing their games, allowing them to define us, define the language, and set us up on the defensive first.
Dean is trying to break up their game begining with Southern strategy (for those that don't agree let's not get started. Just my observation). I think it's about time we fight on our terms and put them on the defensive. AND make people ashamed to be Republicans.

[patricia92243]

29. Great reply- make them ashamed to be Rebublicans- right on!!

[dkf]

19. Seems to me that a lot of Dean's comments

are an invitation to speak out.

Once Dean says these things, it gives people who have been quiet but have relevant opinions/facts an opening.

[hippywife]

31. Dean only risks a potential job

If he loses he will have lost an election and still has a soft cushion to fall back on.

Dennis Kucinich has put all he has...his reputation and his actual position in the U.S. House...on the line time and again and proven to be right on target.

Muny Light
IRW
Patriot Act

Fear Ends...Hope Begins!

www.kucinich.us

[mandyky]

37. Catch Saddam, go to Orange alert

Hmm, apparently we are not safer since the capture of Saddam, not that he was ever a threat to the US anyway...

[drfemoe]

38. This is the news ...

9/11 Chair: Attack Was Preventable
NEW YORK, Dec. 17, 2003
Kean promises major revelations in public testimony beginning next month from top officials in the FBI, CIA, Defense Department, National Security Agency and, maybe, President Bush and former President Clinton.

No matter what happens with our candidates, the pressure on the current failure in chief has to remain constant.