For those who does believe Dean can't beat Bush.. listen up

[Hawkeye-X]

The debates between Dean vs. Bush hasn't even started. Just remember, Dean is a FAR better debater than Bush/Rove, and whatever Chimpy thinks he has an argument, Dean will be the better prepared man.

Foreign policy? Advantage goes to Dean because he has been consistent.

Domestic policy? Dean defeats Bush by a wide margin

Economic issue? Once Republicans learn that Dean is a true fiscal conservative, they will flock to Dean than Bush.

Education issues? Dean hammers Bush with the 2nd largest unfunded mandate in US history.

Job creation? Like Bill Clinton, Dean will outpace Chimpy and finally create jobs and stop the major bleeding that Chimpy started since 12/12/2000.

Middle East? Dean destroys *'s PNAC roadmap and proposes something far better.

Skeletons in closet? Bush loses and gets stomped by Dean.

You tell me. Dean can't beat Bush? Dean wins by over 70% of the votes, drawing tons of true Republicans his way, and leaving * with the fundy votes. Maybe its too optimistic, but 55 to 70% of the votes will go to Dean in the GE.

[JohnKleeb]

1. Dude love the opitimism but 70%?

err FDR didnt even get that much. I am not saying Dean cant win Hawkeye but that number isnt likely. Hell I would consider "only" 55% a nice accomplishment. Dean can win, but 70% isnt likely.

[Code_Name_D]

6. Your point is well taken, however...

we must strive for that 70%. If we only get 55%, than that will be all the margen needed for Diebold to step in and hand the election to Bush defactio.

But I do beleive that a victory of 70% is posible, if Dean (or DK for that mater.) remebers not to play by the Republican's rule book. (or the DLC's for that mater.)

[JohnKleeb]

12. I think I know what you mean but I dont consider 55% only

It would be good IMO.

[jamesarg]

13. Bush fears race with Lieberman most!!!!

Aussie paper says Bush leery of Joe as foe
(December 23, 2003)
New Haven Register


WASHINGTON -- Who strikes fear in the heart of our commander-in-chief?

According to the Australian, a daily newspaper Down Under, it's U.S. Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman, D-Conn.

Editor and columnist Greg Sheridan reported as much in the newspaper's Dec. 18 edition:

-snip-

EDITED BY ADMIN FOR COPYRIGHT REASONS

[TrogL]

14. Please trim this down

three paragraphs and a link.

Read the posting rules.

[diamondsoul]

18. Dude, can you cite more than one article?

Listen, I like a lot of things about Joe, policy is not among them. Honesty is.

He's up-front, even when it doesn't serve him well, and I respect that. Moreover, he stands firm even when I think he's totally wrong. Good for him! That takes conviction and guts, and I also LOVED his response in the WaPo chat about how there are no rules that say you can't be conservative and Democratic at the same time. He's right, there is nothing written in stone to suggest you can't question values and issues if you're a Democrat.

Help your man by talking not just citing the same article over and over again. I'm a Kucinich supporter and even I can find things to back Lieberman over.

[diamondsoul]

17. "If we only get 55%..."

"...than that will be all the margen needed for Diebold to step in and hand the election to Bush defactio."

Which is precisely why Kucinich should be the nominee. The margin of votes will be so dramatic Diebold won't be able to cheat. (personal opinion and I know not everyone agrees)

In addition we HAVE GOT to be active on a local level in ensuring fair elections counts. Diebold will steal the elction unless all members of all parties come together and watch, CLOSELY the tallying and reporting process. There will soon be an addition to the Kucinich campaign site. The page will be titled "The National Elections Board" or something very similar. Dennis mentioned it in the Link TV interview, and it's meant to invite everyone regardless of party affiliation to watch over local ballot counts and reports. It will offer starting points for questioning your local elections Boards, what to look into and how to go about doing it.

The simple truth is neither party is immune to corruption and both sides need to be vigilant, even now.

[genius]

2. Dean is the worst debater I've ever seen. Even Bush would make

mince meat out of him in a debate. In fact, my dog is a better debater than he is. If Dean gets the nomination, we better pray for no debates.

[Dems Will Win]

3. Dean not a debater? Bush better??? This is the whackiest post I've ever

seen on DU. This is true desperation, if you ask me....

[waywest]

4. Bush? Debate?

Somehow I get the feeling somebody's DREAMING!

Outside the most fantastically orchestrated program (all questions submitted in writing and vetted by KKKarl two weeks in advance) I just can't see that happening.

[Hawkeye-X]

8. Like I said..

Dean will be the more prepared debater. I am more than quite aware that the stacks against him, and hopefully two of three scheduled debates that is set for 2004 will have impartial moderators who'll dump Turdblossom's questions in the trash where it belongs.

Hawkeye-X

[Hawkeye-X]

5. Regardless of what you think...

Dean wil win a debate with a dog, and the dog will defeat * in a debate.

[Dems Will Win]

7. You're closer on the low end. Dean will get 53% to 54% of the vote

and Bush the rest.

With Clark as VP we get AR and win the Electoral vote with all of the Gore states plus OH and WV, which we only lost because of guns, Since Dean has an A rating from the NRA and the NRA is totally broke ($100 million in debt), guns will not be near the factor they were last time.

In addition, at least 5 to 6 million new Millennial Generation voters--maybe more--the echo of their Boomer parents and very Progressive, will vote for Dean, leaving the Republicans with only 1.5 to 2 million 18-22 year-olds. The demographics are completely different. Around 2 to 1 Democratic/Green I predict, after the 2004 campaign and on General Election Day.

Generation X is now being replaced as the world's youth by the Heroic Millennial Generation (born 1982 to 2001), who are activists far more fervent and progressive than the Boomers of the Sixties and Seventies.

15 million eligible Millennials in 2004, and then a total of 30 million Millennials in 2008. Add another 6 million or more to the Democratic column then. Karl Rove will never be able to keep up--even if Osama is caught on July 4 next year.

Go to Amazon and get the book Generations by Howe and Strauss from 1992 to learn more!

[boxster]

9. Just remember?

How can we remember something that hasn't ever occurred? Dean hasn't exactly knocked everyone's socks off in the Democratic debates, so I'm not sure of the source of your extraordinary overconfidence.

You're forgetting an incredibly obvious factor - the media. Dean will raise maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of what Bush raises, not to mention that Dean is spending a lot of cash in the primaries, where Bush has to spend almost nothing (except generic anti-Dem ads). The media will hammer Dean and glorify Bush. That does not translate to your Dean landslide in the election.

"Consistent" on foreign policy? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the same guy that single-handedly resurrected the Soviet Union? If you're looking to counter Bush's foreign policy experience, you'd be better off with a candidate that actually has some.

Not sure how your job creation argument fits in with Dean debating Bush. Good luck claiming jobs that he has yet to create. And, you better hope that Bush doesn't manage to create some in the next 10 months.

Ah, yes, those skeletons in Bush's closet have sure hurt him so far. We were so effective at jumping on them in 2000. (sarcasm)

I find it quite curious that a "true fiscal conservative" is the favored candidate of a large number of Democrats and our current front-runner. I must have missed the memo announcing the switch in our party's platform.

55%-70%? 70% is a pipe dream. 55% is highly unlikely. Dean is behind Bush in the polls by anywhere from 8 to 20+ points. Unless a miracle occurs between now and November, I'll be praying that he can win the states Gore won and sneak out a couple more. No way will he beat an incumbent president currently in the 50s-60s approval-wise by 10%.

We seriously underestimated Bush and his cronies in 2000. Don't make the mistake of doing so again in 2004.

[Davis_X_Machina]

10. There won't be any debates...

....the late date for the GOP convention was especially chosen so as to minimize the time available for them.

After three or four weeks dickering over the details and format, the White House will announce that the President has already committed all of the time he can spare from waging war on Terra to other public appearences (i.e. fundraisers), and hence cannot debate.

The press will swallow this line whole, and any inistance on debates by the Dem nominee will be declared "shrill", "desperate", "a deliberate attempt to make the President look bad at a time of crisis", yadda, yadda.

Bush's dodging debates will be declared a plus, the act of a man who 'knows his strengths, and sticks with them', who 'won't be drawn out of his game', yadda, yadda.

[Code_Name_D]

11. I disagree.

The difrence is that Dean (or some one else) will have to force the debate. Dean could send Bush a certified open letter, then mock Bush's "yell'a streek" if Bush declines to respond.

[killbotfactory]

16. Whoever wins should call Bush a coward if he dodges the debates

And they should call for debates as soon as they get the nomination.

They would get to call him a coward for months with no real defense from republicans.

The "He's too busy" excuse won't wash. They guy has taken a month long vacation in the summer every year he's been in office. They just need to point that out, and ask what Bush is scared of.

[polpilot]

15. I've been posting 67% of the popular vote since Spring/Early Summer .

Dean will destroy Bush and only remnants of the repub party will stagger away from this true mandate popular vote in November '04.
Watching Dean since December '02 has been like watching a reall ygood movie unfold as the * candidate, Dean, slices and dices all comers. There has NEVER been a candidate who can take a hit like Dean and come out with better #'s. The other camps have been a TREMENDOUS help to the Dean campaign. 70% is probably closer to Dean's final numbers.

Dean '04...

[floridaguy]

19. I does not . . D+ for lack of grammar and logic (n/t)