Just a doggone minute! This is NOT GD-P2004, Part 2!

[Padraig18]

I see the flame wars are already starting here.

:grr:

[LuminousX]

1. Yep, the hostility can't be contained.

[MoonAndSun]

2. Let them Padraig18, don't concern yourself with them

turn on CSPAN and enjoy Howard and ignore the rest.

[corporatewhore]

3. I am enjoying this GD 2004 free day!!!

[Dookus]

4. oh yeah?

well YOUR candidate has B.O. and has a secret shoe fetish.

[Padraig18]

13. Your candidate:

Your candidate masturbates while wearing stiletto heels and lacy underthings.:P

[Dookus]

14. big deal

who doesn't?

[Forkboy]

17. LMAO

:thumbsup: good answer :)

[windansea]

18. lollllllllllllllll

now where did I put my size 12 stilletos

[mouse7]

21. Noooo.... my feet. Mine. Mine. Mine.

My preciouuuuusssssss....feets... toes...preciouuuussss...

[goobergunch]

5. What did you expect?

:mad:

[Lefta Dissenter]

6. I had just been noticing

how goofy the Lounge is tonight. I guess everyone is bored!

[dionysus]

7. I really appreciate you trying to hold the Fort of Civilty

I don't know how you put up with it. Thats why I don't participate in the bash threads. So many of us here act like Dean is worse than *, and more like a Hitler figure. Well, go figure.

I support all of the candidates, but here's a big problem;

if Clark gets the nod, Rove will run footage of him praising *.

if Dean gets it, Rove will run the footage of all the other candidates bashing Dean.

We have screwed ourselves, once again...

[Clark4VotingRights]

11. Oh lighten up on our candidates. Everyone's human and flawed.

And the media whores will find or invent something
to attack them with, like they did with Gore.

Frankly, I think this is the best group of candidates
we've ever had.

[dionysus]

15. I do too

but tell me it won't be a huge problem during the general if the GOP starts running ads with footage or quotes of dem candidates going after Dean?

Clark has been documented praising * and practically his whole cabinet. I don't give a crap about that, actually, but the undecided voters sure as hell will if they they have him on tape praising Bush and Cheney.

The GOP is gonna go low as they possibly can this time and don't think they won't go there in regards to the above scenarios. Most voters aren't on top of shit like us on DU. This could spell big trouble.

[Supormom]

27. "The GOP is gonna go low as they possibly can this time"

You mean they haven't hit rock bottom YET? Just how low can they go?!

[Eurobabe]

8. we're tired of being pin cushions

n/t

[goobergunch]

10. ROTFLMAO! (n/t)

[ronzo]

9. It'd be nice if everybody could chill out for a day or two...

let's avoid the temptation to restart the flame wars in another forum and cool off while we get GD04 ready to go again.

:toast:

Let's have a beer.

[janx]

16. As a matter of fact, I have a cold one right here!

:toast:

[curse10]

12. I always thought P&C was worse anyway

We never had the thread restrictions here. Now there are just more people participating so it seems uglier.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Better look at the archive here

It sure as hell used to be GD 2004!

[bain_sidhe]

20. Sigh

And you thought they'd stop just cause their forum went away?

Ha, ha. Not.

But, buck up me boyo. We've got, what, a month, maybe a six weeks till we're all on the same side again.

I hope!

:toast: Here's to keeping our cool until then.

Oh, and :kick: just to keep this thread up near the top. Who knows, maybe somebody will actually see it and rethink the flame they were about to post.

Ok, yes, I'm an optimist, but hey, a gal can dream, can't she?

**edit for formatting & spelling**

[Maddy McCall]

22. Here's the problem, Padraig, and I think we hold the solution

Many of us "old timers" were here when DUers behaved civil, and a flame war would be announced in the lounge and everyone would flock to view it because flame wars were SOOOO unusual.

We were here during DU 1 when folks were civil to each other--and yes, we discussed candidates then too, but never did these discussions or debate become flame wars and never were they laden with personal attacks on the poster.

In the past several months, it's become a different crowd here, and many of the old-timers we remember are no longer here--they couldn't deal with the incivility so they left.

I don't look at post counts any more when I see a DUer involved in a flame war...I look at the date when the DUer joined. And usually what I see are DUers who joined in September or October, when things started to turn ugly here, and these DUers just don't know that it wasn't always like that.

Now I am NOT saying that all folks who joined in the last several months are aggressive posters--I have been impressed by most new folks. But when things get ugly, I click on the profile, and then I think, Uh huh. Wish they could have seen what it USED to be like here and then maybe they wouldn't have joined thinking that this is what goes for discussion in DU.

Some of these folks say, "But this is politics and politics are ugly." Yeah, well it became that way in September and October at DU, because it wasn't always like that. Can't blame it on the primary because the primary isn't the first thing about which DUers disagreed. And, amazingly, even in the gun forum or IP forum, things were never as ugly as they have become lately in GD Primary forum.

What happened in here last night was most disturbing, when some of our old-timers were dragged down into the kind of behavior they would have frowned upon six months ago.

Those of us who have been here since before DU2 should try to bring the level of discussion back up to where it was in DU1. Does that mean that we can't discuss the good and bad about the candidates? No, but we can do so civily and set good examples for the people who have not seen civility at DU.

It is so tempting to be pulled into the flame wars to defend our candidates--but in all reality, do we really think those folks care what we have to say? With some of the people who are the most guilty, I think they don't care as much for the candidate or the issue as they care about playing "gotcha" games and having the final word on the thread, even if their final word makes them look like a fool.

I will post threads with which people will not agree, but when I do, I will have a reputable source to back up any assertion I make. And if I have a concern, it will be a REAL concern, not some contrived bullshit like "Clark looks ill...let's contact his doctor" that is only done to find some inroad into a flamefest.

It is so easy to spot the bullshit threads that are beckoning for a flamefest. Best to avoid them and let the people who want to behave like bad-mannered toddlers have a field day ripping on each other.

Let's try to uphold the standard of what DU was six months ago. Maybe, just maybe, some of the folks who were not then there will see that it is really better and they will leave the flaming behind. Let's not allow enthusiasm for our candidates to decline to incivility toward other DUers.

[jmaier]

23. I'm not an old-timer

but I heartily agree with your sentiments. I lurked some at Du earlier this year without joining.

At the end of the day, we aren't going to be able to stop anyone from being disruptive, insulting or simply stupid. Complaints against an offender from someone known to support another candidate are going to be like throwing gas on the flame. It seems to me that calm, supporters of a candidate could perhaps dampen, if not extinguish, the flame wars by heading immediately to an inflammatory thread and denouncing it.

Some of these flames grow because you see an inflammatory headline and rush toward it indignantly. Upon arrival, yes, it's even worse than you feared so now your emotions are aflame. Imagine if when you arrive you see several posts already castigating the thread author from those who support the same candidate. It might lessen your sense of outrage.

Anyway, just a thought.

[Maddy McCall]

24. There are many DUers who joined recently with whom I am very impressed

Their behavior has been model. I plan to start making donations to DU in the name of those who are civil and who make real contributions so that they can have a star and enjoy all of the functions of DU, no matter who they support for the nomination.

All candidates have excellent posters--and all candidates have supporters who should be ashamed of themselves. It isn't about one crowd of the other at all.

Those threads you speak of are posted for the reason you said...to evoke a negative reaction from you so that you, and thus your candidate, look bad. If people would quit responding to those kinds of threads, then they would quietly sink to the bottom.

But I am NOT castigating you and think you are a dandy DUer--and if I never said it, WELCOME to DU. :hi:

[jmaier]

25. Thanks

I wasn't feeling castigated nor was I actually speaking of my feelings. I simply didn't write my thoughts too clearly. I was merely saying that if the less inflammatory supporters of a candidate took their 'own' unruly to task reliably that would probably be good for the overall civility level. And, I mean that across all campaign camps.

But thanks for the welcome! I hope to earn my little gold star here soon -- after I pay the candidate contributions off my credit card.

[Rowdyboy]

26. The DU I joined in the summer of 2002 was a hell of a lot more civilized

Probably a lot has to do with the intensity of emotions growing as we near the beginning of the process in Iowa, and thats understandable. However, we survived our clashes over the Wellstone memorial, and the disasterous off-year elections with nowhere near this level of animosity. But we must get beyond this idiotic attack behavior that has come to symbolize DU-and I'm not innocent by any means-especially after one night last week.

What especially shocked me were some of the responses to Skinner's thread. Some were "shocked" that anyone took last nights "silliness" seriously (yeah, right); some hint at moderator bias; others joked about the matter.

Its about taking personal responsibility. Its admitting you did something wrong and saying that you're sorry. For some people, that is asking entirely too much, evidently.

[Maddy McCall]

28. Last night was bad...

I missed Skinner's thread, though.

When people become desperate enough to start creating alter egos and disrupting the thread, it reflects badly on them.