Not supporting Dean means you support Karl Rove!

[VoteClark]

Every time someone questions Dean's policy they are accused of being a Repuke and Karl Rove Supporter. Why is this?

Using their logic: The DLC, The DNC, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and John Edwards are all Repukes too since they attacked Dean directly. Why not answer the question rather than simple accusations about the crediability and loyality of the person asking?

I find it insulting and small minded that Dean supporters would stoop to this level rather than answering the questions or calling someone a loser, or I mean Repuke. I thought the purpose of a Primary was to question the candidates and ask about their records.

Someone can not like Dean as a candidate and still be a Democrat.

I dislike Dean because of his conservative stances on the Envrionment, education, child care, welfare, and the I/P conflict.

I think cuting the budget on the backs of welfare is bad. I think taking sides in the I/P conflict is bad. I think dumping nuclear waste outside your state is bad. I think education being expensive is bad.

Can one be to the left of Dean and support Kucinich, Kerry, Clark, Gore, Braun, or Sharpton without some Dean supporter calling them a Nazi or a Rove supporter? I find this at least a weak argument and at most a break down constructive debate and personal insults that are uncalled for.

I would tend to think that people that supported a candidate would point out weaknesses in the oppositions viewpoints rather than saying "You support Rove".

I think everyone should send a $1 to their favorite canadidate everytime someone says something of the following:

"KeepItReal (579 posts) Sat Aug-02-03 07:44 AM
Response to Original message

7. Your pResident had *NO* foreign experience before being selected"


Or

Am I suspicious that some might be intentionally divisive because that's the Rove strategy? Yep, gotta admit I am. Tell Rove I said FU...


This forum is full of these by Dean supporters that attack people asking a question or pointing to a postion Dean has on an issue. I find it sad they can't fathom the idea that someone can be for someone besides Dean and not be Communist, Socialist, terrorist, Repuke, or Nazi. No other supporters do this. I can have spirted conversations with other candidate supporters without calling them Repukes and losers.

This reminds me of the McCarthy era where anyone that didn't fit the narrow minded view of McCarthy will be branded a communist. How childish.

J4Clark

Clark is more Liberal then Dean.

[XanaDUer]

1. Good question.

Or accused of being a secretive operative. That's the other thing thrown around.

[w13rd0]

2. Oh please...

...you started a thread:

Does supporting Dean mean this:
with cutesy little mushroom clouds on major cities

It was a lame ass thread, divisive flamebait. Had nothing to do with substantive debate of policy positions. And as for Clark being "more liberal" than Dean...yeah, ok, whatever, now ask me if I care. Clark isn't presently running for the Democratic nomination, and if Dean were to win the nomination, would the approach be to go back to "Dean is too liberal". But I do know there's been much talk of a Dean/Clark ticket possibility by some. Your posts seem geared toward driving wedges with quick and easy strawmen and flamebait.

Maybe its your methods that people are taking easy offense to, especially considering you are attacking others supposedly in support of someone who isn't running...

[liberalnurse]

3. All you do is stir up shit...

You are just a blow-hard, bashing bully....You never, ever debate Dean as a friendly DU participant. You must be related to Ann Coulter....

[msanger]

4. send a dollar and take the pledge

Not only should you send a dollar to your favorite candidate, you should take the pledge to support whoever gains the democratic nomination.

[liberalnurse]

6. I've exercised the theraputic method....

Now there is a limit......Ann Coulter has no respect.

[Booberdawg]

5. More flame bait

:eyes:

[Upfront]

8. Bull

Total bull and a waste of time to even read. Get a life!:spank:

[VoteClark]

14. Thanks for proving my point Upfront

You attack again without any real reasons. I even provided you quotes, and all you say "Bull" and "get a life". I am not so ingrained and narrow minded as to say that my Candidate is perfect and has no problems, or that now might not be the right time for them. You prove my points well with your none arguments of the facts.


J4Clark

[MarianJack]

7. I Mostly Agree.

I am for Kerry, but that doesn't mean that I'm against Dean. I'm against president moron & his rethuglican junta. I am a bit distressed at the anger expressed by some Dean supporters at anyone who supports another candidate. To be fair, however, they also have been the target of some harshness themselves.

I don't see why some of us don't realize that too much infighting does only harm to our own chances. In 1972, the McGvern supporters had a tendency to be very obnoxious to others in the party (I should know, I was one of them) and only hurt their candidate. That, at least, was an election that was probably unwinnable by any Democrat. 2004 is very winnable. It would be tragic if we blew our chances by petty infighting over minor differences. That which unites us is much greater than that which divides us.

ANY D over any r in '04!:toast: :bounce:

[VoteClark]

10. That is what I think too

I have no doubt that Dean himself is probably a nice person. But some of his supporters are very very mean. It is not the same thing to ask a question about a candidate and then be personally attacked.

They think this helps their candidate by tearing apart 90% of the other Democrats.

If someone attacks Clark, I don't personally attack them. I try to convience them. It often works, sometimes it doesn't, But it is better than turning them off permeantly to your candidate.

If Gore, Hillary, or Clark do not enter the race, Kerry supporters have been the best, followed by Kucinich and Braun. Braun will mostly likely be gone :( and Kucinich seems kinda weak, so Kerry is the next man for me.

J4Clark

[Speed8098]

13. I agree

The blind devotion to Dean is a turn-off to me. I can't stand it when I see the Dean supporters resort to freeper-like tactics.

The idea is to beat *, but in order to do that we need a solid platform.

I am anxious to see the debates(if they occur), and see how Dean handles himself against *. If he comes out and bashes * without offering a solid alternative, he will go down in flames.

My choice would be Clark/Edwards or Edwards/Clark.

While the economy is an important factor in the 04 election, national security will also play a big role in the decision making process of the middle of the roader's.

We need to remember, we at DU represent a very small fraction of the electorate. * has been successful in scaring the bejesus out of the non-thinkers and they will vote for someone who they think will be tough on terrorism as well as strong on the economy.

Just my $.02

[MarianJack]

15. Nice!

Maybe it's just your 2 cents worth, but I think it's a very valuable 2 cents!:toast:

[Nicholas_J]

9. Yes vote Clark

YOu will notice that I am most frequently attacked by Deanies, as I frequently post articles about Deans past, and how there is a serious disconnect between what Dean is saying as candidate, and what Dean DID as governor....

FOr the most part, you will be personally attacked, and Deans supporters NEVER come up with reasonable counterpoint to the information that you point out. IF you point out how Dean was not responsible for creating some higher level of Health Care service, and that all of the increases were direct results in increases to medicaid funding, the best they will do is show you a list of STANDARD medicaid services available in Vermont, stating that this is what Howard Dean has done. Dean has them concinved that he CREATED medicaid, and created a magical new service in Vermont when a study of Vermonts health care system ordered by Dean in 2001 found that:

A. Our commission is made up of people who have spent years listening to testimony and otherwise studying the problems of health care availability and affordability. We have differences, some of them passionate differences, in our political philosophies, and it should come as no surprise that we differ on some of the directions reform should take. Although we have taken a substantial amount of new testimony during the past nine months, our real task has been to try to find common recommendations, despite our philosophical differences.2

B. Based on what we have learned, we do agree on this: Health care in Vermont is near a state of crisis -- some of us would say it is already in crisis -- and all health care sectors are on edge. We also note that many of these problems are national or even global in scope and that our abilities to solve them at the state level are limited.

C. Health care costs in Vermont, now exceeding $2 billion a year, are of a sufficient magnitude, however, and are increasing at a sufficient rate to place state government itself in jeopardy, including every program for which it appropriates money. By comparison, Vermonters budgeted $1.8 billion for all state government services in FY 2001 (not including federal funds).3

We are rapidly approaching the point at which these costs will directly conflict with our ability to do such things as to maintain roads and bridges, for example, or to provide cost-effective services to our infants and children, to promote agriculture and tourism, or to provide any other services our citizens have come to expect.

1. Vermont ranks about average in the nation with respect to the number and scope of its insurance mandates.

2. Government regulation has not achieved the goal of satisfactorily controlling costs.



http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:aC9QzqwOEmkJ:www.state.vt.us/health/commission/docs/report/mainreport.doc+%22Howard+Dean%22+%22Incentive+Plan+for+Medicaid%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Indicative of the fact that Dean really didnt do anything that was not done in oter states, and did a good job of messing up the rest of the government trying to do it.

WHenever you post these simple questions, you get flames or invenctive as you just did by having somone call you an "ANN COULTER RELATIVE"

Dean supporters rarely can find any GOOD reasonoing for supporting their candidate. HE repeats what other candidates have said earlier, even almost completetly rewqording a Kerry Speech on foreign relations, and they call it brilliant, innovative thinking.

I like Clark, but he is not my first choice. Kerry is. THe similarities that the two have as men are far closer than their political differences.

Like Dean, who has run an attack campaign on the very people provided most of the funding for his election campiagns for governor, and is thus, and ungrateful, mean sprited oppportunist in my eyes. I have asked the question, what kind of candidate attracts such nasty, vicious, supporters who enjoin almost continually in personal attack on anyone who dares aske why the Emperor Dean is wearing no clothes.

You pointed out in your initial post, many of the questions I have asked about aqndas you just pointed out:


Someone can not like Dean as a candidate and still be a Democrat.

I dislike Dean because of his conservative stances on the Envrionment, education, child care, welfare, and the I/P conflict.

I think cuting the budget on the backs of welfare is bad. I think taking sides in the I/P conflict is bad. I think dumping nuclear waste outside your state is bad. I think education being expensive is bad.


I have provided MANY sreticles that link to Deans performance as governor in his area, but I most prefer the opinion of ALaexnder Cockburn, a well known American progressive, and editor of Counterpoint magazine:

Anybody but Bush? Watch out, Dems!
Let's aim higher than pro-death penalty, pro-drug war Dean

Take Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont. Right now, he's enjoying a boomlet. Across this great land, ambitious Democrats are hopping from foot to foot in an agony of indecision. Kerry, Graham, Dean, Gephardt: Which way to jump? Dean! Clinton without the satyriasis, Carter without the Baptist sanctimony; a simple country doctor (albeit with Dean and Witter armorial bearings) who ran Vermont through the Nineties, and who, somewhere in the mid to late 90s, began to set his compass for the White House. Progressive, but not radical; against the war, but no peacenik.

I'm a realist. I know that anyone hoping to win the Democratic nomination has to achieve acts of political prestidigitation equivalent to, though harder than, guiding a herd of rampaging Gadarene swine through the eye of a needle. No matter that a candidate might have the idealism of William Morris, the conscience of Philip Berrigan, the moral clarity of Robespierre or Ralph Nader, he'd still have to act as ruthless swineherd. I know that. But I'll confess it. The more I look at Dean, the less I like him...

He was gung-ho for welfare "reform," which he has called an "incredibly positive force." He's a "fiscal conservative," which is kiddy code for serf of capital.


http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=15211

And the opinion of Michael Badamo, another Vermont prgressive who continually was figthing Dean for trying to take away sevices from the blind, other disabled, the elderly and the poor, and if this in any indication, probrably lollipops out of the mouths of babies.
It was Badamo who suggested raising a progrressive income tax during the 2002 budget crisis, the exact same method that Dean inherited in 1992 from Richard Snelling, along with the budget deficits. Dean also inherited the credit for the progressive tax plan instituted by a Repbulican in a time of crisis, whoo was flexible enough to know when he had to bite the bullet and be progressive. Dean has repeatredly showed his inflexability and his complete fiscal ignorance in that he has only one solution for every problem, cut spending, cut taxes.

Sound like someons already in the White House?:

Vermont Governors of the Modern Era, Subjective Rating and Evaluation;
Brief Comments on Their Respective Contributions
by Michael J. Badamo

*Howard Dean:

Howard Dean is clearly the runt of this litter. Dean is shallow, glib, mean spirited and overly ambitious yet Vermonters continue to reward him with term after term. On issues that matter, Dean is regressive and responsive only to the needs of elite vested interests. Taking his lead from the new generation of grossly hypocritical, Bill Clinton type Democrats, Dean mouths the ancient words of Democratic Party idealism but then repudiates labor and the poor confidant that they have no where else to go. Big money motivates Howard Dean, a spoiled brat rich kid from Long Island who always gets his own way.

Dean has never had serious opposition in any election campaign. He slid into the Lieutenant Governor's office and took over the top job when Snelling died. He has won easily since because Republicans like to vote for him while their own Party candidates have been either little known or hopelessly right wing.

Of our six modern governors over the last thirty five years, Deane Davis gets my vote for number one, definitely a good guy. I'll rank Phil Hoff a not too shabby number two because Vermont really needed a good kick in the ass. From there, they go down fast. Dick Snelling gets a grudging number three because he represented stability and administrative competence. We'll give Madeline Kunin number four simply because she was less of a snake oil salesman than Tom Salmon, our choice for number five. Howard Dean, of course, is the worst in modern memory.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to plot the trend.

So what's happening here? Are Vermonters really getting dumber or do we just not care any more? If the past be any guide to the future then we got trouble down the road.


http://www.sover.net/~auc/6govs.htm




VoteClark, you can expect more personal attack.

A group of nine of my friends an myself spent six months going to Dean MeetUps, and analysing the Dean campaign organization and strategy. You see much of it here on DU, they welcome you to the MeetUps and other Dean meetings suggest "DeanForAmerica" as the only legitimate site for political truth, as bible thumpers suggest the Bible as the only source of truth.

There they find a group of people who befriend them, give them warm fuzzies, indoctrinate them into Dean Group-Think , and begin to isolate them from the ideas of other candidates, witholding friendly behavior from those who ask questions such as "Why did Dean do this" or Why did Dean do that? A minimal punishment on DU seems to be to threaten to put you on ignore.

We began to realize that Dean campaign meetings very closely resembled cultlike organizations and began to act accordingly, separating and befriending those who asked such questions and began to point out the emotional manipulation they were being subject to. We have been able to deprogram a good number of them and then they go on to lead normal lives again, and even eventually are able choose other candidates' based on the merit of their records, rather then the old "Fire-in-the Belly" routine. It is a difficult and thankless job, but somone has to do it. To finally see the the glaze disapear from their eyes and see a bright intelligent look on the faces of these youth does my old heart good!

[liberalnurse]

11. Well now, we will just have to get along....

because Clark is going to be Deans VP. Secondly, this board is to be a user friendly milieu.....

:loveya:

[VoteClark]

12. Your right

If Dean becomes Clark's VP we will have to learn to get along :)


J4Clark

[Nicholas_J]

34. Yeah right

And the Tooth Fairy will be his Surgeon General, Easter Bunny his Secretary of Agriculture, and Santa will be his Secretary of Ho, Ho, Homeland Defense.

[ryharrin]

53. Great job proving how much more civilized you are in

discussions about Dean than Dean supporters are. Jackass.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

16. Ohmigosh...

"We have been able to deprogram a good number of them and then they go on to lead normal lives again..."

This is so weird I can't even begin...

[w4rma]

43. No, Nicholas_J, you are smearing Gov. Howard Dean

Why do I use the word "smear", because when someone shows you facts that go against anything you say, you *still* repeat yourself, over and over again.

Your posts are huge, they are longer than the thread's initial post manytimes. They are usually full of opinion pieces with lots of emotional vitrol and the facts that you have posted, have been responded to effectively (of course, you never acknoledge that there is any other opinion other than your own, so you keep posting these hit pieces instead of supporting your man, Kerry, by introducing Kerry to DUers).

I will note, that your methods are helping Dean win the nomination, you say that isn't your goal, but that's been the effect. Since I don't think you are some kind of Republican plant, but instead a misdirected Kerry supporter, I feel that I should give you my observation of your tactics so that, as a Democratic activist, you'll be more effective in supporting Democrats, later on.

[Nicholas_J]

46. Repetition, and opinion...is politics...

Dean repetition that the October Resolution was a "vote for the war" repeated over and over again, made people beleive it, though there is no basis for this idea in law.

Repeating the facts of Deans record as governor, cutting programs to the middle class and poor, and givinmg tax cuts bears repeating, and makes people think. especially when he does a major reversal on universal health care, in which he intimated that he would be able to provide such care immediately, and that is how people read his campaign. The fact that Deans record as governor is one that Ted Stevens would be proud of bears repeating, and repeating often as the campaign moves forth.

As you repeat Deans past record, and it starts to peak out more and more as the campaign moves along, and it is what Dean deserves. He has attacked the very people, party, and organization that gave massive economic support to his repeated campaigns as governor, and made sure he had enough money to defeat an enormous "Take Back Vermont" campaign against him in 2000, where the very right wing of the republican party was recieving massive funding from anti-gay fundamentalist organizations. Deans disloyalty to those who watched hi back is obscene.

[killbotfactory]

17. No. You are wrong.

Now that that's settled, I shall move on.

[VoteClark]

18. Your Program has bug

Debate is not allowed. Anything Dean says is correct, Anything Dean says it correct. Anything Dean says is correct. I have no thoughts of my own. I can't think. I can't debate. Anything Dean says is correct.

Hi, I am stepford Dean, everything is nice and just wonderful. Debate is not needed. Everything Dean says is correct. Hi, I am a stepford Dean. Debate is not needed, everything Dean says is correct.


J4Thinking on one's own.

[killbotfactory]

20. Nope. Wrong.

If you want a debate, present a coherent arguement. Try backing up your opinions with examples or facts. Otherwise, there is nothing to discuss.

[VoteClark]

23. You don't allow debate

If anyone disgrees with you, they are accused of a face less tactic of being a Karl Rove Supporter. You don't argue anything. You just say that is not TRUE, WRONG, FALSE, FREEPER. that is you ONLY response. Look at any post you made, you don't debate, you call people names. That is all you do. Look at your posts in the last, oh say 30 threads.

Let us debate Dean's support of Civil Unions. Or his stance on the I/p. I made those, no comment on all these reponses. NONE. You have no issues other than you aren't Bush. Big deal! Either are any of the other 8 current candidates.

J4Clark

[killbotfactory]

28. Where have I accused anyone of being a Rove supporter?

Where have I called anybody a name?

Put up or shut up.

[poskonig]

19. When someone with 30 posts spews baseless GOP propaganda

specifically targeted at the Democratic frontrunner, what do you think people are going to believe? :+

[VoteClark]

21. They are going to think

If you don't support Dean you Support Karl Rove!

[poskonig]

24. No, we are going to think *you* are a freeper.

I respect the supporters of Kerry, Lieberman, Graham, et cetera. All of them, even when we disagree, defend their views intelligently, even if we throw a few punches for fun.

You, on the other hand, post meaningless flamebait. Look at the bombs going off in every American city in your other thread. If you're not a freeper, you sure look like it.

[VoteClark]

26. No, you stopped thinking a while back

About the time you took off the Kerry sticker and replaced it with a Dean sticker.

I think you are a plant. Dean is the one the Repukes want. They don't want Kerry, he is a war hero. You support the MOST conservative candidate. Your only response is to accuse none Dean supporters as being Karl Rove Supporters. Which means you don't think at all.


J4Clark

[poskonig]

27. Freeper, heal thyself.

(1) The thesis of your thread is that Dean supporters call *everyone* Rove servants, which is reprehensible and must be stopped. You provide no evidence to back up this claim. You demonstrate how much you believe in this principle by calling me a "plant."

(2) Freepers are becoming increasingly concerned about Dean. This evidence indicates Dean and Gephardt are the two points of concern. Reacting to GOP views is indeed no substitute for thinking, but if you insist on bringing this up, read for yourself. Note while they worry about Dean, Kerry is dismissed as a 'Dukakis', a 'pansy elitist', and all sorts of other foul bullshit. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-campaign2002/950786/posts

(3) Dean is not a conservative. Everyone knows the Republicans are going to attack Dean by calling him the candidate of Muslims, Taxes, and Queers.

I'm still looking at Clark, since I know Clark and most of his supporters are better human beings than you.

[VoteClark]

29. You prove my point better than me!

"I'm still looking at Clark, since I know Clark and most of his supporters are better human beings than you."

You are mean, and very very angry misplaced person. How can you get any lower than that? Really!

I already gave you two examples in my orginal posts of Dean supporters. You just don't bother to look at it. There are also several other non-Dean supporters in other camps.

Perhaps if Dean was not bashing Kerry, Lieberman, Graham, Kucinich, Edwards, the DNC, the DLC, and the rest of the Democrats you would not be facing such oppostion from everybody in the party.

You are not considering Clark, so don't even pretend, you are programed to be for Dean. Eat, sleep, and breath Dean. You know it, I know it, ever one in here know it. I bet you got Dean stickers and a T-Shirt and donated money to his campaign already. You probably have "Is the doctor in" somewhere in your housing unit. Part of your programming as well :)


J4Clark

[poskonig]

30. I am a calm and rational person.

You, however, continue to claim I'm angry, haven't looked at other candidates, and am not considering Clark, all of which are not only unfounded, but false.

I suspect you're jealous of Dean's success and say these wild things out of frustration. Make sure you catch the ads Dean is running in Texas during Shrub's vacation.

[VoteClark]

31. Stop putting words in mouth, that is a strawman argument

"You, however, continue to claim I'm angry, haven't looked at other candidates, and am not considering Clark, all of which are not only unfounded, but false.



I never said this, at all. I did say that you are not considering Clark. You are already supporing Dean. You even know when and where his commericals are running. Kinda silly and obsessive don't you think?

I am not Jealous of Dean's success, I am frightened, I fear his nomination because it dooms the Democratic Party in the West, and he will not win.

Are you not afraid of another 4 years of Bush? I am, big time!


J4Clark

[poskonig]

32. You need to put the fear away

and start *thinking* for a change. B-)

[VoteClark]

33. I did, that is why I support Clark, no fear, all thought

[AmyStrange]

42. Then what is the point of this thread? (n/t)

[ryharrin]

54. It dooms him in the west?

He's polling the highest in the west. He's actually leading in the west according to the last national poll I saw that was broken down by region.

[Nicholas_J]

35. You mean like the posts from

A comittes set up by Dean to analyze the problems with Vermonts Health care system, or about Deans threatening to veot progressive tax legislation wtitten by the LIBERAL Vermont PRogressive party and supported by DOZENS of Vermont Democratic legislators or:


Senate adds money to budget, angers Dean
May 9, 2002

By ROSS SNEYD The Associated Press

MONTPELIER — Senators passed a 2003 state budget Wednesday that the governor made clear he would veto if it ever reached his desk.

Just hours after an angry Gov. Howard Dean leveled a series of charges about how irresponsible he believed the Senate, controlled by his fellow Democrats, was being, senators did precisely what he warned them not to do...

Even the governor’s closest allies in the Senate ignored him. Sen. Nancy Chard, D-Windham, recommended restoring $440,000 to one of the pharmaceutical assistance programs and the Senate voted 22-7 to go along with her.

“I’ve become convinced that we have a philosophical difference between the governor, the Republican House and this Senate,” said Senate President Pro Tempore Peter Shumlin, D-Windham.

“The governor and the Republican House want to balance this budget on the backs of our most vulnerable Vermonters. The Senate wants to balance this budget on the backs of the pharmaceutical companies who are charging too much for drugs.”

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/46513.html

You mean like the Democratic Senator,Nancy Chard, ot the Democratic Senate President Pro-Tempore Petwe Shumlin, who placed Deans philosophy of cutting services as aligned with the REPUBLICANS


Or ALexander Cockburn, one of the most liberal and progressive political editors and writers in the country, and one of the founders of the Creators Syndicate, the first one of the oldest independent media outlet in the country, with other manbers such as Gary Larson of Far Side Fame, in order to give the liberal and progressive community a voice. Co-Editors of one of the most progressive journals in the Country, Counterpunch.

Or Michael Badamo, one of the leaders of Vermonts Progressive party which gre by leaps and bounds in Vermont while the Democrtatic party was crushed under Deans Conservative hands:

With light turnout, Badamo apparent Progressive winner

September 11, 2002

(from the State section)

By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — The only Progressive seeking the party’s gubernatorial nomination appeared to win it in Tuesday’s primary elections, according to unofficial election results.

Michael Badamo, 56, of Montpelier netted 70 percent of the vote — 719 votes — with 77 percent of the precincts reporting, according to the unofficial results compiled by The Associated Press.

Badamo’s opponent, Peter Diamondstone, 67, of Brattleboro, who is a member of the Liberty Union party but ran as a Progressive in the primary, pulled in 30 percent, or 312 votes, according to the AP figures.

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/Archive/Articles/Article/52860

You know Progressives like Badamo, who run on this platform:

The purpose of the Progressive Party is to promote economic, social and environmental justice and sustainability through electoral and other democratic political activities, and to become the majority political party, while protecting minority and individual rights and opportunities.
Our country, state and localities can reach their highest social and economic aspirations through truly representative democracy.
All people have a right to equal participation in society.
Democracy requires empowering people not only in government, but also in the workplace, schools and in the overall economy.
Society's wealth should not be concentrated in the hands of a few, and a wealthy minority should not control the conditions under which we live.
Collective organizing is essential for people of low and moderate income to attain economic justice.
Everyone is entitled to decent work at a living wage in a safe working environment.
We need to create an economy that is sustainable and reverses the destruction of our global environment.
The burden of taxes should be shared based on ability to pay.
Basic needs, including housing, food, health care, education and energy should be affordable to all and not the means for private profit.
Directing more resources toward the care and development of children is essential to a health and prosperous society.
Our society's deeply rooted racism and white privilege, whether overt, subtle or institutional, need to be abolished wherever they exist.
The prevalence of sexism, both overt and subtle, limits and damages us all. More than merely encouraging women to fully participate, we must affirmatively assure their inclusion in all aspects of economic and civil society.
Seniors and people with disabilities should be able to participate fully in society without economic deprivation or social isolation.
All people, regardless of sexual orientation, should be able to participate fully in society without interference. We must affirmatively ensure their inclusion in all aspects of society.
Our society's deeply rooted discrimination against low-income people, whether overt, subtle or institutional, needs to be abolished wherever it exists.
Consistent with the rights and equality of others, religious and cultural minority groups deserve respect and freedom from governmental interference.
Community members should be fully integrated into decision-making about the economic destinies of their communities. Those who operate a small business or farm, or are self-employed, must be protected from the overreaching power of mega-corporations.
Human labor is the key to creation of wealth. We challenge the assumed right to derive vast wealth from ownership or position.
No nation should exploit the labor or resources of another nation or people.
Human survival requires the elimination of nuclear weapons and the redirection of military spending to human needs.

http://www.progressiveparty.org/principles/

Those GOP inspired articles and people who Dean fought and opposed, and who oppose Dean for his overwheming conservatism.

or those like Norm Solomon:

After seven years as governor, the Associated Press described Dean as "a moderate at best on social issues and a clear conservative on fiscal issues." The news service added: "This is, after all, the governor who has at times tried to cut benefits for the aged, blind and disabled, whose No. 1 priority is a balanced budget."

When Dean officially announced his presidential campaign on June 23, some news stories identified him with the left. It's a case of mistaken identity. "He's really a classic Rockefeller Republican -- a fiscal conservative and social liberal," according to University of Vermont political scientist Garrison Nelson.

As a fiscal conservative, Dean is aligned with the status quo of extreme inequities. That alignment was on display during a pair of June 22 appearances.

In an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Dean delivered a one-two punch against economic justice. He advocated raising the retirement age for Social Security, and he called for slowing down the rate of increases for Medicare spending.

http://www.fair.org/media-beat/030626.html


Yeah that Right wing Rovian, Norm Solomon:

Norman Solomon


Norman Solomon is currently executive director of the Institute for Public Accuracy, a nationwide consortium of public-policy researchers. He is the author of "Media Beat," a nationally syndicated column on media and politics that appears in the San Francisco Examiner and other daily newspapers. A longtime associate of FAIR, he has written op-ed articles on media issues for many papers, including the Boston Globe, Washington Post, Newsday, New York Times, Miami Herald, Los Angeles Times, USA Today and Baltimore Sun...

The Media's Favorite Think Tank: How the Heritage Foundation Turns Money into Media, July/August 1996
Media Moguls on Board: Murdoch, Malone and the Cato Institute, January/February 1998
Snow Job: The Establishment's Papers Do Damage Control for the CIA, January/February 1997
Powell Media Mania, January/February 1996
Whitewater Under the Bridge, May/June 1994

One of the formost liberal writers in the country. opposing thr Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institutes, Rupert Murdoch, and the establishment media.

Yes all of the GOP supporting articles I post from these ultra conservatives who do tell it like it is about that superman of the Democratic Party Howard Dean...
Is that what you mean by

"When someone with 30 posts spews baseless GOP propaganda"

As a matter of fact when I see positive stuff posted about Howie, it either comes only from his own campaign, or he is being praised by the Current Republican governor or his Republican staff for his cuts to social services so that Vermont does not face as bad problems as other states.

You can find little or nothing in the independent liberal and progressive media that has much positive to say about Dean.

Now it has gotten to the point that Dean suporters must call the writings of some of the most liberal, anti Bush, anti Republican sources and writers "base;ess GOP propaganda"...

Sorry, Dean may really have you fooled, by this point to call Alex Cockburn, Norm Solomon, and the Vermont progressive party and its members "GOP PROPAGANDISTS"

The only truth to your statemnt may apply to Deans own Bi-Partisan Comissions report. Since Dean mandated the comission, and Dean is so conservative, THAT may be in some way, GOP related, as Dean was largely elected by moderate republicans in Vermont.

Remember it was Dean who had a fair portion of Vermont Republicans voting for him in 2000:

This campaign is by far Dean's most difficult. In addition to the polarizing and emotional issue of civil unions for homosexual couples, he is facing Dwyer from the right and Progressive challenger Anthony Pollina from the left.

When asked, most of the Republicans on the committee said they supported civil unions and argued that their support was not about one or two issues.

Gilbert, a former member of the late Gov. Richard Snelling's administration, said he took the initiative to form the group, which boasts a membership of more than 30 moderate Republicans from around the state who back Dean.

He said the committee would support Dean's candidacy by reaching out to other moderates in the party as well as helping Dean with fund-raising.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/repbackdean.html

And this, this from that ultra conservative almost fascistic, right wing, Marijuana Polict Institute...

Mr Dean is actually rather an odd champion for the party's Democratic wing. As governor of Vermont for 11 years the doctor- turned-politician was a pragmatic New Democrat in the Clinton mould. He resisted irresponsible spending increases, fought with the state's Progressive Party and vigorously upheld the right of Vermonters to carry concealed guns. He even defied a national trend by changing his mind in favour of the death penalty.

He continues to sell himself as a "deficit hawk" and "balanced budget fiend" (the Bush fiscal policy, he says, is modelled on Argentina's). His health-care plan is much more market-driven than the Clinton administration's plan, and much cheaper than Dick Gephardt's ($88 billion compared with $214 billion). His views on the Middle East are pretty close to the Israeli lobby's. He is against medical marijuana laws and the anti-global-warming Kyoto protocol.

So would Mr Dean be able to repackage himself as a centrist if he won the nomination? Hardly. His views on guns count for little compared with his strident opposition to war in Iraq and his determination to repeal "every dime" of Mr Bush's tax cuts. For good or ill, Mr Dean has decided to climb on the back of the leftist tiger. He cannot climb off without being eaten alive.

The sight of Mr Dean on the tiger's back is striking terror into the party establishment. On Capitol Hill Democrats worry that a Dean candidacy will not only allow Mr Bush to sweep the electoral college but also to cull vulnerable Democrats in the conservative south and the middle-American heartland. What chance has a liberal north-easterner backed by money from Beverly Hills and Harvard Yard of helping the Democrats in vulnerable Senate seats in Arkansas, South Carolina and the two Dakotas?

The Dean campaign is indignant about such arguments. Didn't me-tooism produce the debacle of 2002, they ask? Well, yes. But the only thing more dangerous for the Democrats than Bush Lite is McGovern Extra Strength.

http://www.mpp.org/states/site/quicknews.cgi?key=4539

Yes...

THe real problem is that the lies that Dean supporters must invoke by calling ANYONE and ANYTHING that opposes Dean "GOP PROPAGANDA"

Again, most of the opposition to Dean does and has come from liberals, not conservatives. All but th most right wing Republicans loved the Doctor, and most Liberals and the left despised him, as a traitor to the Democratic Party's ;iberal, and even centrist principals.

[madfloridian]

22. I don't see many Dean supporters starting threads.

Maybe the board moves too fast, or maybe I am just not very bright. Mostly I see people who DON'T want Dean starting the threads that make it sound like Dean people are saying bad things.

It is very simple. If you want to read what Dean is about go to his website, go to his weblog. Read what he has to say. If you don't like what he says, then vote for someone else.

Stop disguising these theads. Just say "This is an anit-Dean thread started by a non-supporter."

If Dean people start a thread to discuss his views, it gets hi-jacked very quickly.

[VoteClark]

25. All the other treads are.

People don't read them. They are all saying the same thing. That Bush is Bad and Dean is a GREAT and wonderful guy.

Everyone already knows this. Not interesting.

Look at the previous threads, you will find many posts made by Dean people and attacking Kuncinch, and Kerry, heavily.

I suppose by the Name MAD, that you are Dean supporter, since most seem to be.

J4Clark

[tameszu]

36. STOP!!! No more circular firing squads, please!

VoteClark, I'm a pretty solid Clark supporter (see my post vs. the anti-Clark poster in the General Discussion forum), but I question whether this is thread is particularly constructive.

Yeah, every candidate has its fanatics and it's frustrating to get into a discussion with them, but it isn't productive to worry about them. Just point them back in the direction of their favourite campaign office and try to get them on board if their candidate loses or ask them where you can sign up to start handing out flyers if their candidate wins.

We all should be on (roughly) the same side here. I don't support everything Dean, Clark, or Kerry stand for, but I'm sure all of them will make great presidents--especially if we're thinking in relative terms--if they win.

So please, play nice, and try not to do anything that helps out Uncle Karl, even accidentally. Going negative in the primaries, in my opinion, is what really hamstrung Gore--he played a bit loose against Bradley, Bradley hit back with a "dishonest" meme, which stuck and turned a straight shooter into someone who all of a sudden lacked the ability to tell the truth. We don't need to replay that BS again.

[SGrande]

41. We are NOT on the same side here

Yes every campaign has the wack-jobs, but Deanites are crazy and they number the hundreds.

And one thing Ive noticed is that they've never been active before, so they lack common courtesy and are mean to other DU posters.

Few have admitted to helping the Dem party before or Volunteering for ANYTHING.

They have no investment in this Party and to be honest, Ill be happy if they disapear forever when Dean loses because I don't want their pessimistic, hateful, spewing rhetoric that anyone who isn't a Dean supported is an Anti-American, Anti-Democratic Repuke who is actually a freeper here to disrupt their little cult following here on the DU.

[VoteClark]

51. Exactly my point SGrande

They attack Kerry and Kucinich like CRAZY. They don't support any other candidate because Dean, and Never will. They attack all Democrats. I support Democrats for the Democratic Nomination. Me and many others have spent years working for the Democratic Party. Most Dean supporters have not.


J4Clark

[ryharrin]

55. Ok, calm down here.

I'm a Dean supporter who will probably vote for whoever the nominee is, even though I am new to the democratic party and new to politics in general. Does the fact that I haven't been doing this for years mean that I shouldn't have a voice in the nomination? Oh, and I also don't attack Kerry or Kucinich. I like Kucinich a lot, I just think Dean is much more likely to win. Kerry is great too, but far too boring and dull. And Clark should be Dean's VP.

So in other words, stop with the sweeping generalizations.

[CWebster]

37. Oh look, another Dean bashing thread!

:wow:

[Ripley]

38. Exactly what is Clark's stand on abortion?

Or how about health care/insurance? How about tax cuts?

Oh yeah, no one knows.

[VoteClark]

49. HE is Pro-Choice

[dsc]

39. I you can find one, just one

place where I called anyone a Karl Rove or a Nazi I will start an apology thread this instant. Put up or apologize your choice.

As to your tactics. You use the basest of tactics to attack our candidate and then act shocked that we would be offended. First you use the country will be blown up by terrorists if we elect your guy which is exactly what Bush and co will say about any Dem (yes even Clark). Then you dishonestly say Dean worked in an abortion clinic as a doctor. No site, no evidence, no nothing to back it up and all so convient it is yet another Bush Co talking point.

I want you to imagine if I started a thread saying that electing Clark would lead to another Great Depression based on the fact he has no economic experience and then posted without citation charges of him being a war criminal in Kosovo due to his campaign to expell the Serbs. I have my doubts you would find that an illuminating thread. So why should we find your thread about Dean to be anything other than idiotic flame bait.

[dsc]

56. Gee no answer

I am so not shocked. I am glad your candidate isn't the coward you are.

[SGrande]

40. Dean supporters should be banned from the DU

They are mean, pick on other posters JUST FOR ASKING HONEST QUESTIONS.

They call DUers names, like Repuke and GOP-lite just because the won't support Dean.

I would support Dean if it wasnt for his followers.

But Deanites make me sick!

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF BEING AFRIAD TO SUPPORT SOMEONE OTHER THAN DEAN ON THIS MESSAGEBOARD!

[w4rma]

44. Jeeze, calm down. Besides, have you noticed that all the negative threads

are directed at Dean and there are practically NO THREADS AT ALL (positive or negative) on Kerry?

a) You should change your tactics to support rather than smear.
b) You should quit attacking fellow Democratic voters and respectfully attack the candidate.

IMHO, SGrande

[SGrande]

45. Umm

I just posted 2 great articles from Stan Greenberg...and there are 3 threads on Kerry at the top?

[AmyStrange]

47. That'll never happen...

they don't bash Dean because of other supporters, but because it gives them an excuse to be stupid...





Dave (AmyStrange.com)
http://www.SeattleActivist.org/MyLifeStory.html
DU (slang/ folklore) Glossary (Dictionary): http://DUG.SeattleActivist.org/
Index of WMD Articles: http://WMD.SeattleActivist.org/

Here are some excellent resources and timelines of quotes and interviews and newspaper article quotes documenting the different things Bush and Co did and said for the last two plus years concerning the war in Iraq and WMDs (and other fun things) from the Howard Dean Website---even if you're not a Dean Fan, these are still excellent resources:

The Bush Administration And WMDs: Then And Now:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=bush_wmd_summary

Niger-Uranium Timeline:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=niger_timeline

Bush and WMD: Assumptions vs. Reality:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/DocServer/TikTok_-_Bush_-_Iraq_-_Side_by_Side.pdf?docID=781

The Bush Administration and WMD: What did they know and when did they know it?:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/DocServer/TikTok_-_Administration_-_Iraq_Deception.pdf?docID=762

[whirlygigspin]

48. Deanites stealing kids lunch money

mean,crazy Deanites stole my lunch money.

mommy, make them stop!

[genius]

50. Alll the other candidates are more liberal than Dean.

Dean thinks he can get the nomination by insulting and bullying the other candidates. It won't work.

[JohnKleeb]

52. well genius you wanna know something interesting

They support Clark for the same reason the DLC supports Lieberman because hes "electable" I will not move to the centre just to look electable, thats colleberating to me.