BusinessWeek: Dean "...not a liberal...pro-business, Rockefeller Repub..."

[tsipple]

This BusinessWeek article mostly praises Dean for his attention to business concerns. (And that's probably not a bad thing in the business press.) Here's a sample excerpt:

Conservative Vermont business leaders praise Dean's record and his unceasing efforts to balance the budget, even though Vermont is the only state where a balanced budget is not constitutionally required. Moreover, they argue that the two most liberal policies adopted during Dean's tenure -- the "civil unions" law and a radical revamping of public school financing -- were instigated by Vermont's ultraliberal Supreme Court rather than Dean. "He was not a left-wing wacko," says Bill Stenger, a Republican and president of Jay Peak Resort, who says he supported Dean because of his "fiscally responsible, socially conscious policies."

[killbotfactory]

1. The Interview is quite good.

This is a President who doesn't have a clue.

Q: George Bush argues that the U.S. is primed for a strong economic recovery. How do you see it?
A: I think that is complete nonsense. My favorite economist on Wall Street is Stephen Roach. He believes that the combination of these enormous deficits, incredibly low and potentially negative savings rates, and the enormous trade imbalance that we have is likely to result in significant economic calamity. So while there may be some short-term improvement, I think this President has put the entire economic future of America in enormous jeopardy with his supply-side nonsense.

...

Q: What approach would you take toward business regulation?
A: It's a mixed bag. We do need environmental enforcement that is not happening now. But my attitude is that 80% of the business community wants to do right thing environmentally. That's what we found in Vermont. And for the 20% of industries that are not helpful, there is a heavy hammer.

Q: How do you assess Bush's environmental record?
A: He is the most awful and irresponsible President in terms of protecting the environment in the history of the United States. Even to the extent of using Orwellian language like "clean skies," which means putting more pollution in the air, and "healthy forests," which means logging old-growth forests.

This is a President who not only doesn't care about the environment he jeopardizes national security by refusing to deal with renewable-energy issues. We are addicted to foreign oil, and he refuses to confront the Saudis about their role in promoting terrorism. This is a President who doesn't have a clue.

[lcordero]

2. I see a really big problem

Pro-business????
It already sounds like he's not going to do anything about the US-wide job hemorrhage.
I don't want an anti-war Lieberman or a pro-war Lieberman.

[tsipple]

3. Um, It's BusinessWeek

"Rockefeller Republican" is as left wing as you can get to still be considered presidential material in that magazine. (It's a "centrist" business publication, though.)

[BayCityProgressive]

5. Huh?

So why would any Democrat want to vote for someone who is considered an old school Republican? This party is in real trouble when someone who is an oldschool Republican is considered an Ultra Liberal. I admire Dean's war stance and his willingness to attack Bush, but I have been hearing way too many stories about his conservatism. Is this what our party has become; a bunch of moderate Republicans?

[w13rd0]

8. We live in interesting times....

...and though I don't think of Dean as a Rockerfeller Republican, having moderate Republicans see those aspects with which they can align themselves and thus vote Democrat isn't a bad thing. And yes, this is what our party has become, a bunch of moderate Republicans. By media consolidation and framing of the debate, the "center" has been moved rightward. These media outlets are going to seek easy ways to categorize and classify. BusinessWeek emphasizing these parts of the Dean platform makes sense considering the subject matter of the magazine, and that's a win for the Dean campaign. It dispells the labeling of the corporate media, and if it makes those moderate Republicans out there second guess their party affiliation because they'd find themselves more at home in a Dean presidency than a Bush presidency, bravo...

[SharonAnn]

18. Because a Rockefeller Republican is today's Liberal

Believe it or not!

A Rockefeller Republican does not believe that corporations should rule America, the jobs should be exported to low wage countries, or that the public sector should be privatized.

[JohnKleeb]

20. yep

You see Dean is pretty good on social issues but we need a pouplist and I repeat a populist on economic issues.

[w13rd0]

6. Dean speaks extensively...

...on the need for fair trade and the need to help small businesses, which have been hammered under this administration. And considering the fact that I've now heard a fair number of businessmen, even some Republicans, conceding that some damned common sense might not be a bad thing, I think it's great. I'm not necessarily looking to smash the 80% of business willing and wanting to do the right thing either, I just want to see the 20% that aren't dealt with appropriately...

[w13rd0]

7. Dean speaks extensively...

woops...dupe...

[Desertrose]

4. just wondering what the difference is

between a corporate republican and a corporate democrat?

Is the end result the same as far as "we the people" vs the corporations??

Just really curious.....

Peace
DR

(and yes, I do really like the fact Deniss does NOT take corporate donations....can you be fair if they help pay your way??? just asking a question here folks...)

edit : forgot the "p" in republican

[BayCityProgressive]

9. Bleh

A lot of "Democrats" talked about fair trade and did nothing to advance it. Talk is cheap. I haven't picked a candidate yet but I have become pretty cynical about a lot of the politicans in our party. Clinton was a lot of talk and no action, hopefully we don't get another of the same.

[Philosophy]

10. So who's reponsible for fiscal responsibility?

I'm confused: the article praises Dean for his fiscal responsibility, which supposedly makes him not a "left-wing wacko", but then Bush* pretends whole concept of fiscal reponsibility doesn't even exist, which supposedly makes him a great conservative hero.

Why the double standard?

[blm]

11. Yep...a compromising centrist and corporatist....

Before they drank the Dean Kool-Aid, most DUers detested the centrists who carried water for the corporations. Of course, when Dean did it for 11 years he was being "pragmatic".

[JohnKleeb]

12. blm you got the point but heres my point

They are acting like the DLC with Kucinich and all yet when the DLC does the same to them. BTW this really gives me a bad vibe, see why economic policy is just as important as social policy people. The DLC really has their guy imo and they dont know it.

[blm]

25. They know it...

he was with them for 11 years. They're just mad that he changed his campaign tactic from running as a centrist to suddenly turning on them rhetorically. The difference in why the DLC doesn't attack Kerry and Kucinich the way they attack Dean is because they don't target the DLC to glorify themselves or try to hurt other Dems to make their points.

[killbotfactory]

29. I think the DLC is mad he opposed the Iraq war..

and called for scrapping Bush's tax cuts.

That and they have vested interests in other candidates.

[killbotfactory]

13. And now Vermont is a toxic waste dump!

Oh wait, no it's not.

Dean can and has worked with businesses and environmentalists to promote both. He refutes the myth that environmentalism is bad for business, and vice-versa. Sorry, but I don't see why that's a bad thing.

[JohnKleeb]

14. Guys this concerns me really

I respect Governor Dean but..............I also dont mind republicans like this from the 70's. Do we want a bonafide democrat or a democrat who is pro business other than pro labor or simply pro people. Would I vote for a guy like Rockefeller? hell no would I prefer him to an extreme right winger, but I think we need a better alternative.

[lastliberalintexas]

17. Well,

no disrespect intended to anyone, but I don't think many people here understand the problems caused by a high debt load. I am not an economist myself, so I am certainly no expert either. But from what I understand, a high debt load and continuous deficit spending most likely leads to high(er) interest rates, which is devastating in a deflationary period like we are in currently. A high debt load also creates mandatory spending on debt servicing, either in the form of interest payments or fees/expenses connected to further borrowing. That also means there is less money available for social services and discretionary spending.

Also remember that there is a difference in fiscal responsibility and fiscal conservatism. You can be a flaming liberal like me and still believe in fiscal responsibility (a la Tsongas). Dean is by no means a flaming liberal, but neither is he a right wing conservative. He is actually just moderately left on most economic issues.

At the height of the Reagan/Bush I deficit spending, about 15 cents out of every tax dollar collected went to service the debt. No ifs, ands or buts about it- 15% of ALL federal spending went to merely pay interest on our debt. Can you imagine all the good that could be done with even 2/3 of that money? The repubs can- and that's why they don't want us to have the option. If they bankrupt us so that x% MUST be spent on just interest, then they will finally succeed in eliminating all those social services they hate. They can't lodge a frontal assault on Social Security, so instead they have found a way for a back door assault (and hope in the process that the public won't blame them for it).

Dean's not a Socialist by any stretch, but don't buy into the propaganda that he is a repub either.

[JohnKleeb]

19. well I dont want a socialist but I sure as hell dont

want a friend of the big business world I want a friend to working people and I want a populist on the economic issues. Look hes a dem on the social issues I think but hes really something in between on economics and frankly I dont want that. If he is for Yucca Mountain as I heard I am against.

[lastliberalintexas]

22. Well,

he won the first Wellstone Award from the AF of L, and has consistently received very high marks from Labor since his tenure as a Vermont State Rep. My union family is solidly behind Dean, warts and all. That includes 2 sets of granparents, both parents, my hubby, and 3 aunts- all but my hubby were raised in Union Label households, too.

I'm not quite sure where this "corporate whore" idea is coming from in the media. I guess maybe since the media has been unable to convince people that Dean is a liberal pinko commie, that they are now trying to convince Dems that he is really just a repub?


I admit I'm not sure about Yucca Mountain, and that would be another area I disagree with him on. It's not the first time that's happened, and it won't be the last. In fact, one of my bitterest political disappointments was from another Vermont politician, Bernie Sanders. As fabulous as he is (and he is one of my heroes still), I was terribly disappointed when he refused to step in and fight for the poor (and mostly brown) people of Sierra Blanca in west Texas when a similar thing happened to them.

[JohnKleeb]

24. yeah you are right

Well I really am starting to get iffy on Dean really. He's been said about by more populist dems in the VT legislature that he worked with the republicans more. Now I like Dean on social issues and dont have a problem with his supporters but I just dont understand, how does he become the supposed leader of the democratic wing just now, its like he came out of no where. I had heard of Kucinich before then, and Kerry but no Dean.

[DrFunkenstein]

15. My Kind of Fiscal Responsibility

Only 14 Democrats voted against the 2001 bankruptcy bill:

Corzine, Dayton, Dodd, Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Kennedy, Nelson, Reed, Rockefeller, Sarbanes, Wellstone, and Kerry.

Consumer groups and unions had been aggressive in opposing it, contending that the changes in bankruptcy law will take away an important means of relief for families hit by job losses. Former President Clinton vetoed 2000's similar version, saying it would hurt ordinary people and working families.

"This is the most anticonsumer piece of legislation that the Congress is considering," said Edmund Mierzwinski, consumer program director for the U.S. Public Interest Research Group in Washington, D.C.

And they wonder why Ralph Nader got so many Democratic votes?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0316-03.htm

Corporations are using investor rights contained in the North American Free Trade Agreement’s (NAFTA) Chapter 11 to challenge in closed NAFTA tribunals a variety of national, state and local policies and decisions.

Unlike the amendment sponsored by Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), the Baucus-Grassley Amendment does not set the U.S. Constitution as the benchmark for the scope of property rights available to foreign investors in the United States.

"It’s nice they fixed a drafting error by passing the Baucus amendment," said Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizen’s Global Trade Watch. "Now the Senate needs to pass the Kerry Amendment to start fixing the NAFTA Chapter 11 problem."

http://www.commondreams.org/news2002/0515-04.htm

[JohnKleeb]

16. well I think I find myself continuing drifting from Dean

and you know those democrats on the list are some of the better ones: Durbin, Feingold, Harkin, Teddy K, Wellstone, etc and good for Kerry.

[DrFunkenstein]

21. It's The Democratic Wing Of The Democratic Party

The list reads like a who's who of the most progressive members of the Senate. Not progressive in words or "conviction," but in deeds and votes.

"A little less conversation, a little more action please," as the song goes.

[JohnKleeb]

23. DrFunk when Kucinich drops out if he does which I hope not

Expect me to support him I like him, and he is supposely electable and hes all around progressive. I really am starting to like Kerry and his Kennedy connections are a-peeling lol.

[DrFunkenstein]

26. A Thought On Progressive Style and Progressive Substance

"Progressives must give each of the candidates a thorough look. None may be progressive in my or your terms, but let's be ready to get behind whoever wins the Democratic nomination, so we can send this hard-right Administration packing. And let's not let progressive style or language replace progressive substance simply because we no longer have a senator who is one of us."

Jim Farrell, spokesman for Paul Wellstone.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20030526&s=farrell

I find it interesting that I was attacked for "bashing" when I first posted this, and now all the Dean fans are falling over themselves to prove what a great centrist he is.

[JohnKleeb]

27. Wellstone was a good man

I think he would like Kerry or Kucinich the best honestly. Kerry and Kucinich are both good guys, I like them both, Dean imo just came out of nowhere really out of all the candiates here is a guy I never heard of before the war, I knew who Kucinich was because Ive seen him hammer bush in the past and saw his name mentioned with Cythia McKinney.

[DrFunkenstein]

30. I Knew Wellstone and Kucinich From The Nation

They were both darlings of the magazine. It seems like the magazine was really pushing for Kucinich to enter, but didn't do much to support him. They seem to have fallen into the "electability" hole on Kucinich.

I think that Kerry most accurately represents the views of the magazine, but they still feel burnt over the Iraq vote. I wonder how their support will play out.

[JohnKleeb]

31. yeah the vote burns my soul too

too bad Paul died. I think if he ran the Deanites would be flocking to him, I would.

[DrFunkenstein]

33. Kerry Supporters Would Too

Wellstone would suck the oxygen out of the race, and probably create a struggle between himself and a fervent centrist. Perhaps even Dean. But I'd give heart and soul if Paul could run. I even sent a check to his campaign.

[JohnKleeb]

34. No I think Wellstone would make us see that Paul is so much better

Than Dean. Paul Wellstone would be way better than Dean so would Kerry but I think with Wellstone the Deanies could see it more better.
Kerry is a good guy, I like him, the vote for the war burns my soul other than that and some other things, he is very likable. Maybe Kerry could include if he gets the nod and wins some of DK's ideas and give DK due credit. I am a big fan of the Kennedy family and Teddy endorsed Kerry, which is a plus, and when your political mentor chooses him, you gotta like the guy.

[killbotfactory]

28. That piece is innacurate.

I think Dean is moderate left, but defies most labels, especially with the useless way they are thrown around nowadays.

Dean fought for the campaign finance reform law, for example, and only abandoned it after the VTSC gutted it and made it useless. There's more examples, but I'm sure you've heard them already.

[DrFunkenstein]

32. Dean At Bat For Big Business

Business leaders were especially impressed with the way Dean went to bat for them if they got snarled in the state's stringent environmental regulations. When Canada's Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd. wanted to build a new manufacturing plant on 700 acres of Vermont farmland in the mid-'90s, for instance, Dean greased the wheels. Husky obtained the necessary permits in near-record time. "He was very hands-on," says an appreciative Dirk Schlimm, the Husky executive in charge of the project.

And when environmentalists tried to limit expansion of snowmaking at ski resorts, "Dean had to show his true colors, and he did -- by insisting on a solution that allowed expanding snowmaking," says Stenger. IBM, by far the state's largest private employer, says it got kid-gloves treatment. "We would meet privately with him three to four times a year to discuss our issues," says John O'Kane, manager for government relations at IBM's Essex Junction plant, "and his secretary of commerce would call me once a week just to see how things were going."

Indeed, virtually everyone who has worked with Dean believes he would be a demon at reducing the federal deficit. While balancing the budget and keeping defense expenditures intact, that would leave precious little room for new liberal programs. What it more likely would leave are a lot of dashed expectations among the crowd that so fervently wants the doctor to be in.

[killbotfactory]

35. Honestly, how many successful governers are hostile to businesses?

I don't get it.

Listen to the right-wingers, and they say Dean crippled Vermont with high regulations.

Listen to the left-wingers, and they say Dean sided with business too much.

My question is, did his being business friendly harm Vermont in any way? Did their polution levels go up? Did sprawl go out of control and ruin the state? Did endangered species get wiped out? From what I can tell, no, and Dean actually helped businesses and environmentalists work together. Here's a guy who puts to rest the myth that one can't be pro-business and pro-environment at the same time, why is that a bad thing?

[lastliberalintexas]

36. You don't get it do you?

Apparently, in order to be considered a good Democrat, one must be against ALL business. Not just the Enrons and Walmarts of the world. Not just making sure that businesses play by the rules (and for that matter, making sure that there are even rules by which to play). Not just making sure that employees are protected. NOt just making sure that the environment is protected while allowing for sustained economic growth.

Nope, one must be willing to shut all businesses down so that we can go back to work in that agrarian society of Utopia. :-)


Geez people, I'm as much of a Democratic Socialist as the next person, but even I understand that not all business is bad. And again, while I am no expert myself, I think some people here definitely need to pick up an economics textbook.

[w4rma]

37. Bingo. Well, Bingo as long as that wasn't directed at killbotfactory.

killbotfactory said nothing about being anti-buisness.

IMHO, Dems need to be pro-small and medium size buisness and big buisnesses need to be split into smaller buisnesses to dilute the concentration of power. I haven't heard anyone talk about trust-busting, yet, but that's also a tactic that would be like kicking a hornets nest.

[lastliberalintexas]

38. No, killbotfactory and I are on the same page

as far as these issues are concerned. My sarcasm just wasn't clear enough!

"IMHO, Dems need to be pro-small and medium size buisness and big buisnesses need to be split into smaller buisnesses to dilute the concentration of power. I haven't heard anyone talk about trust-busting, yet, but that's also a tactic that would be like kicking a hornets nest."

Couldn't agree more. Maybe we need to find someone willing to go in with some Raid Wasp and Hornet Spray!

[DrFunkenstein]

39. Kerry Heads The Small Business Committee, Dean's In Bed With IBM

Even more than the environment, Kerry has been the Senator of small business (and the enemy of corporate criminals). If you read his economic plans, there is tons of incentives for small and medium businesses, and a strong filter to weed out corporate malfeasance.

Because he refused to accept corporate PACs, he wasn't beholden to behemoths like IBM.

The major focus of Kerry's platform, his baby, is ending the lie that you cannot be pro-environment and pro-business. Especially if you don't consider mega-corporations as the index of what pro-business means. And, let me add, Kerry is also strongly pro-consumer's rights, and champions many of the consumer reforms that Nader popularized.

[killbotfactory]

40. Dean was favorable towards IBM because were the largest employer in VT

If they weren't harming the environment, what's the problem?

According to opensecrets.org, Kerry has taken approximately 75,000 in PAC money since 1990.

[killbotfactory]

41. Also, Kucinich and Mosley Braun had millions given to them by PACs

Are they beholden to corporate behemoths?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

42. Everyone should read this article.

Everyone should read this article.

Here's that link again:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_32/b3845084.htm

[JohnKleeb]

43. This strikes me as a negative

He isnt the democratic wing of the party, the man who represents the wing in the race unfortunely is a dark horse. I think honestly Paul Wellstone would be supporting Kucinich or Kerry because overall they share his views most. I dont want a Rockefeller republican philosopy on my platform I want a Democratic platform that is pro-people, pro small business and worker not pro corporate or big business and has a good health care plan.