Dean Says He Misspoke on Social Security

[dajabr]

WASHINGTON -- Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean said Wednesday that he misspoke when he told the AFL-CIO he never favored raising the retirement age for Social Security benefits to age 70.

Dean acknowledged that he had called for such an increase when the country was faced with a deficit in 1995, but said he no longer thinks it is necessary. He said former President Clinton set an example of balancing the budget without raising the retirement age.

"Clinton proved that if you run a decent economy and have a budget surplus and some jobs, then you don't need to raise the age to extend the life of Social Security," Dean said in a telephone interview after The Associated Press questioned conflicting statements he has made on the issue.

The current retirement age for receiving full program benefits is 65 years and two months. The retirement age will gradually rise to 67 over the next two decades.

Dean's false statement came Tuesday night during an appearance at the AFL-CIO's Democratic presidential candidate forum.

More: http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-dean-social-security,0,2509226.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

Kucinich Supporters: Please form an orderly line and collect your pound of flesh.

[quilp]

1. I seem to remember Dean saying this to Russert this year.

There must be a record of the interview. I don't understand this.

[Kahuna]

5. I have a tape of the MTP interview and of last night's forum..

I find it useful to record people while they contradict themselves.

[killbotfactory]

31. Where does Dean say he wants to raise the age to 68?

Since this is what Kucinich claimed.

Saying he would entertain the idea is not the same as wanting to raise it.

[JohnKleeb]

2. why what do you know DK was right

*stands in line*

[genius]

57. Dean may be self-destructing

The bad news is that Bush would make mince meat out of him. He seemed really out of it during the debate. I guess they don't have a lot of debates n medical school.

[Kahuna]

3. Deanies were hi-fiving last night saying HD, "smacked DOWN" DK..

They never learn.

[Khephra]

7. Not this Deanie

I was quite proud of Kucinich. I think both him and Dean are doing great things for the party by bringing people back into politics, something that only Gore or Clark would also be able to do as well, imo.

[Kahuna]

12. Then you were a...

good Deanie. :-)

[dpbrown]

21. Thank you for this thought

I'm glad Dennis is pointing out distinguishing differences between his candidacy and Governor Dean's.

[VoteClark]

39. A Dean a supporter with those comments is a breath of fresh air

Thank you, for not celebrating the attacks against a good man like Kucinich.

J4Clark

[JohnKleeb]

41. many are like this, frankly they should be on DK's side

[JohnKleeb]

8. well I feel more optimestic now

Kucinich even if he presented it bad, was telling to truth, I dont hate Dean but you know but I would had loved to see him explaining why he once supporting increasing the age, DK was right on, and the truth will set you free I guess.

[Kahuna]

13. But he really went out of his way to diss Dennis. He..

made incredulous faces like, 'who me?' while Dennis was CORRECTLY repeating Dean's position that he spouted just a few months ago on national television. Then he went out of his way to deny it and effectively accuse Dennis of lying. Not good.

[w13rd0]

4. As I said in other threads...

...perhaps his position "evolved" on the matter. We wouldn't be able to name any other candidates whose positions have "evolved", would we? I mean, that would be "waffling and weaseling", right?

[JohnKleeb]

9. he denied that he was for increasing it

Thats one issue with Kucinich to be fair, and Dean seemingly does it a lot.

[Cha]

16. Yeah! John! Dean "evolves a lot" this is true and that is

prescisely why I like him!

Dean is not static, that's for sure!

[Kahuna]

17. "Evolved" is a nice new euphimism for lying now...

You gloss right over the FACT that Dean said he was NEVER for it. He could have said last night that he has evolved. Anyone would understand that. But he went out of his way to deny that he EVER said it. And, painted Dennis as a liar for even suggesting that he had ever said it. Remember how indignant he got? False indignation. He must have learned that trait from chimpy.

[Cha]

23. I take nothing you say about Dean as fact!

[JohnKleeb]

20. it baffles me

really its ok

[Kahuna]

11. He may have "evolved." But,. he also..

LIED

the following is a direct quote from last night. Notice the emphasis on the words in red that Dean took pains to emphasize last night...

Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, who favors taking it back to age 65, criticized Dean for saying he'd raise to 68 or 70. Dean responded, "I have never favored a Social Security retirement age of 70 nor do I favor one of 68."

And, this statement is from just a few months ago:

snip..
It also contradicted a television appearance in June in which Dean said he would consider raising the age to 68.

[w13rd0]

14. BS...

...you can look into something, you can even "sign off" on it, without favoring it. I send my taxes in every quarter, but I don't favor the way Bush spends them. This one is a real stretch to try and jump start a campaign off of.

[Kahuna]

15. Alright. Okay. I take it that you didn't read the article where it

quotes Dean's own words.

Face it. Dean said he was NEVER never in favor of raising the SS age to 68 or 70. But, I guess you missed this part of the article too...

snip..

But that contradicted a 1995 article in which Dean said he wanted to raise it to age 70 to help balance the budget.

[killbotfactory]

32. There's two issues here that keep getting confused with each other.

Dean did in support raising it in the mid-90's. He was wrong to say he didn't.

Dean does not want to raise the age to 68 like Kucinich claimed. Kucinich was wrong to say he did.

[diamondsoul]

37. Oh Please!

Gimme a break, did you read the response Dean gave at all? He ADMITTED he'd discussed the posibility and WOULD consider doing so. The point is Kucinich would not raise the retirement age and in fact would lower it. He called out Dean and you "Deanies", as someone else said, can't stand to admit that Kucinich was right.

[killbotfactory]

40. When did "consider" come to mean "wants" ?

This is the essence of the whole arguement from last night.

[diamondsoul]

45. So your whole gripe is over one word??

You must be joking. You want to hold a single word over Kucinich when the message conveyed was accurate- Dean DOES support the idea of raising retirement ages to support SS benefits, he's said so before and admitted it since.

Look pick a defense and stick with it, but maybe you ought to follow your candidate's lead on this one.

[killbotfactory]

52. Words have meaning.

Saying Dean is going to raise the age limit, when that is not true, is a lie.

[papau]

6. He is correct on need to raise retirement age to 70 by 2043 - but

alternative solution is ending wage cap on SS payroll tax, giving the rich a benefit that increases using the 15% factor that is now applied to income in the 80,000 area.

[LWolf]

10. Kucinich on this issue:

Today, Congressman Kucinich said: "It's unfortunate that Dr. Dean was not forthright with labor leaders and activists concerning his statements on Social Security which had been discussed on a recent 'Meet the Press' program. I was surprised at his denial, which raises many questions. If he wants to clarify his earlier statements, fine. But don't deny them while appealing for union votes."

BACKGROUND
"The way to balance the budget, Dean said, is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else. 'It would be tough but we could do it,' he said." (Times-Picayune, 3/5/95, "And Politicians Wonder Why They Aren't Trusted," by Miles Benson, Newhouse News Service)

Dean was asked about the comment on "Meet the Press" (6/22/03):

DEAN: ...I don't recall saying that, but I'm sure I did, if you have it on your show, because I know your researchers are very good."

RUSSERT: Well, Miles Benson is a very good reporter for the Newhouse News.

DEAN Yes, he is. No, no, no. I'm sure I did. I'm not denying that I said that.

http://kucinich.us/#chicago

[Kahuna]

18. Good find.

[Cha]

19. I read that about Dean and the retirement age of 70 but that

is just one of the issues that I figured we didn't agree!

I'm glad to hear that he doesn't "favor" that anymore!

I went to such a Great Dean Meetup tonight! It was so Nice to meet real Live Dean Supporters from all across the political spectrum!

[madfloridian]

22. Well, my goodness, if Dean misspoke..........

he had better withdraw right now! We can NOT have misspeakers in the White House, can we?

Shall we hold all our candidates and all our leaders to this standard?

I have no objection to holding people's feet to the fire. So while we are at it, please ask Kucinich to quit yelling...just have him call them down more quietly.

Frankly, I don't know WHAT stance Kerry and Graham and Edwards are taking half the time, either. They all tippy toe around. I know, I have tried to pin down their stances via their campaign offices.

I have tried to talk to the Graham camp to clarify some things, and they choose not to clarify.

Kudos to Dean for feeling my anger, for being willing to put his butt on the line to speak out. It shows all the time that he is not a polished politician.

Good for him, I don't want that. I am tired of that. We need someone to take risks.

[w4rma]

24. When Dean notices he made a mistake, he corrects himself immediately!

I'm *very* impressed with this and his solution:

...
He said the way to balance the budget now is to repeal President Bush's tax cuts and restrict spending. He said to balance Social Security, he would consider raising the retirement age to 68 and letting more salary above $87,000 fall under the payroll tax.

On Wednesday, Dean said since his appearance on "Meet the Press," he has consulted with experts and concluded that no increase in the retirement age would be necessary. A better solution, he said, would be to raise the salary limit.

"I'm willing to take it off entirely if we need to," he said.
...

I'm also impressed with the short list of Dean's misstatements that the AP is building at the bottom of all Dean apologies. :P

And I'm wondering where Bush's list is.

[diamondsoul]

28. Misspoke my butt!

The man knew full well what he was saying was false. He chose to pander instead of being straight with the people. It's not new for Dean, I promise you that. Research his past, please, and not because I'm asking you but because people who are considering voting for him have a right to know everything that might impact that.

Listen, I adore Kucinich, I make no bones about that, BUT if it had been Dennis who did what Dean did last night I'd be just as disgusted. I think every Kucinich supporter can pretty well say they would be too.

I'll tell Kucinich to tone it down some, though I don't think I need to. I'm reasonably sure he's already been told the reaction to his fury wasn't recieved well among the swing voters or Dean supporters.

[killbotfactory]

30. When will Kucinich issue a retraction for lying about Dean?

When he said Dean wants to raise the age limit to 68?

[UnapologeticLiberal]

56. If he was deliberately lying, why would he have come forward and corrected

himself? He would not have this whole thing brewing if he had not said anything the other night.

He probably forgot that at some point back in 1995 he said he might favor increasing the retirement age to 70. Do you remember every single thing you ever said? I certainly don't.

The rest of what he said was true...he said "I do not now favor raising it to 68, nor have I ever favored raising it to 70." (I think that is the right wording...someone double check!) So he never said that he never favored 68. The only part that was wrong was the part about 70.

Look, I am annoyed that we have this whole controversy brewing, but there is a part of me that is so glad to have a candidate who is willing to come out and say something that is not what the seniors want to hear. He refused to pander by promising to lower it to 65, and at another appearance in New Hampshire recently someone asked him if he would remove the tax increase on Social Security passed in 1993, and he said he would not make any promises because he was concerned about the deficit. I give him a lot of credit for that.

[Nicholas_J]

25. He said it in an interview wth Russert last year

But then it was seventy years old. (He statend that he was certain tatn the people who did the figures were correct, but was waffling all over the place to avoid getting thev words out)

Then Russert reminded him of their PAST interview where they discussedit and Dean then state the 68 issue.

But this is mr Dean campaigning. As I said yesterday. Kucinich brought up a truth about Dean, Dean lied about it infront of the AFL-CIO, and when the media reminded him this morning, Dean apologized because his stateents have jusr alienated A LARGE group of one of the largest voting blocks. But Dean is still lying. He has frequently pulled this shit before an election, and then wen right on to do what he said he was "WRONG" about, as soon as he got into office.

ANd that is exactly what Dean will do to get the votes. Lie through his teeth before the election, then block any attempt to pass legislation that proposes protecting the services he was talking about. If Dean wins the first thing he will do is state that those trying to keep the age at 67, or lower it to 65 again are in la-la land regarding balancing the budget.

More to come, more to come. Dean will virtuallt be apologizing for dozens of statements that are being kept track of by the other candidates, who all want their oound of flesh out of Dena for the last year of his misrepresentation of them and their decisions, made like ANY monday morning quaterback.

I welcome the next wave of quoting Dean, having him deny, and then get called on the carpets by the media, and have to apologize.

In the end, someon who has to say he was WRONG so many times will be seen as a mediocre leader, all talk, mostly WRONG talk, and simply move to candidates who have a firm grasp on the issues, and have the experience in actually SUCCEEDING, at getting thinngs done. rather than just talking, attacking others, becasue three is little about him that can be held up as repressentative of the kind of quality that democrats should aspire to in a president. Not attacks, not changing ones stance with every poll, but someone who leads.

Someone like Kerry who can , who like John Kennedy said. Lead people to do things that they never imagined they would want to do or be able to do to begin with.

Dean can talk, but he has NEVER led. He was continually in comflict with his own party, rather than possesed of the ability to lead thwe==em to the place of his vision.

But knowing Deans record I can see why, Deans vision resembled a painting by Goya...El sueno de la razon produce monstros.

[diamondsoul]

26. Actually Dean has managed to-

earn back a teeny bit of my respect for coming clean that way. Kudos to him, but Kucinich is still my candidate.

Mind if I snatch your link so I can come clean at my own forum and hopefully make up with my Dean supporter? :D

[JohnKleeb]

27. at least he came clean yep

I still like DK too.

[diamondsoul]

33. Tell me please, wouldn't you

be just as pissed, maybe even more so if it had been Kucinich busted in a lie like this??

Honestly, I KNOW I'd have been devastated, and yet Dean's people refuse to see the problem in it.*sigh* I'm dedicated to Kucinich, but by golly, I'm not stupid and I wasn't born yesterday.

Hell I admit freely Kucinich screwed up royally on Hardball, but in that case he was pushed with the same sort of crap as asking him "Have you stopped beating your wife?" and not letting him say anything except a response to THAT question which makes him look bad no matter what he does. I just groaned and slapped my head while muttering "Oh GOD Dennis why didn't you tell him you were not discussing criminal penalty because it doesn't have an impact on Federal Legislation?!". Oye, bad interview from the instant abortion was mentioned.

Still Dennis didn't say anything he KNEW was false. Should he have named someone? No, probably not, however he believed that particular person might go along with imprisoning women for seeking abortions and he was backed into a corner, totally intentionally backed into a corner and silenced the same way he has been all throughout this campaign so far.

Ahem. Can't tell I'm gung-ho, can you? ;)

[killbotfactory]

29. Kucinich still lied by saying Dean wants to raise the age to 68

And by saying you have to cut the pentagon budget in order to balance the budget.

[diamondsoul]

34. Eh?

No he didn't lie abut Dean's prior comments. In case you didn't know it the public statements of the candidates (excepting Shrubbykins) are all ANY of us have to go on, including Kucinich. He reiterated what Dean had already said in the past. That's not a lie, it's calling for clarification of Dean's stand on the issue of retirement age.

As for the Pentagon budget, YES, anyone trying to restore the US to her glory days of production and still provide a decent life for her citizens WILL have to cut the Pentagon waste. As a matter of fact most people know there is much to be gained from cutting the Pentagon's budget they just won't admit it to the general populace, and this BTW comes from a woman who has been militarily connected or military herself all my life. We need to force the Pentagon to be accountable just like any other Government program, they can NOT keep losing billions in tax money as if it's a quarter that fell out of their pockets!

[JohnKleeb]

36. he knows that a lot of that military spending is wasteful

[killbotfactory]

38. Kucinich said Dean wants to raise the age to 68

Dean doesn't. Dean said he would think about it but doesn't think it's neccessary.

Kucinich lied.

[diamondsoul]

47. Any reference to back that up?

I've yet to hear Dean admit to any qualifiers about necessary or not nor have I seen reports of same.

He said he'd consider it as a solution to the SS crisis, that was the point. Compare and contrast. Dean would consider it, Kucinich wouldn't, THAT was the point.

[VoteClark]

35. Dean stands on all sides of all issues

Pro-Gun and anti-gun
pro-death penality and anti-death penalty
pro-MJ and anti-MJ
Pro gay right and anti gay rights
Pro-welfare and anti-welfare
pro-labor and anti-labor
pro-social security and anti-death penalty

Watching Dean on the issues is like watching a tennis match, back and forth back and forth. It makes me want to :puke:

J4Clark

[w4rma]

42. This isn't quantum physics. Dean is a centrist.

Dean stands in the center of all issues. Like he's been saying all along, he's a centrist.

[unfrigginreal]

43. Wow! Thanks for that!

I just sent my first $50 to Dean. Been a holdout for quite awhile waiting to see what Clark decides but if you're an indication of his support then I don't need to wait any longer.

[diamondsoul]

44. So you're a big fan of Ping-Ping I guess?

Come on now, this is how you cast your vote? I'd like to give you more credit than that.

Given the hellish conditions in the US under Bush, you really want a centrist? REALLY? and why??

[JohnKleeb]

46. diamond its because

while many hate the DLC for their attacks on anti war candiates, they have a hard time accepting that a people's candiate can win despite the fact that Dean too was once where we are now. You are absoultely right though, we need a liberal not a centrist, and if not a centrist at least a liberal centrist.

[diamondsoul]

48. I don't hate the DLC

but heaven help me I'm sorely disappointed in them after watching their convention for most of an entire day. It was sickening. Can we get much closer to a Republican stand than the DLC came that day? I don't think so. I say again, it's a balancing act.

Bush has dragged us all to the right whether we want to go or not. Now we have to head left whether we want to go or not. Kucinich is the only one that can balance out this extreme right shift. That's the bottom line for me and why I will and do FIGHT to make him seen and heard.

[JohnKleeb]

49. they intensely dislike it though maybe hate is the wrong word

Well Kucinich is right on most of the issues too.

[unfrigginreal]

50. You are new

I've always been a moderate and have NO desire to see Leftists or Rightists win the next election.

I may still move to the Clark camp but I see that as less and less of a possibility if they believe their claim to fame will be to trash Dean. If he gets in AND makes his issues clear, then I'll compare records and make a choice. He'll lose the benefit of a comparison if his political hacks go on a smear campaign prior to him announcing.

[diamondsoul]

53. Is calling Dean to clarify his positions

trashing him now? No offense, but I find that to be a strange positions. I kind of thought the whole idea of debates was that candidates put their stands on the issues out there and challenge their opponents to do the same or clarify earlier stated positions.

I can understand what you said about not wanting either exteme left or extreme right in the Oval Office, but I guess after nearly 3 years of Bush I can't agree. I just don't see any more viable response than moving to a very far left candidate who will make just as radical changes to our nation and polcies as Bush has. Then again being pretty far left myself and extremely progressive in my views, I have to admit some bias there.

[Mairead]

51. Good for Dean! That's the decent thing to do.

[genius]

54. I'd l;ike to see his supporters admit when they are wrong.

Here's another concern. If he makes mistakes like this in debating with Bush, the news medida will finish him off. This guy is not presidential material.

[ProfessorPlum]

55. The news media "finished off" Al Gore

for sighing too much. Supposedly. I don't think you should worry too much about whether the media thinks a Democrat is presidential material - I think we know the answer to that question.

[Octafish]

58. So what IS Dean's position on Social Security?

This is an important Democratic program. Where does the candidate stand?

[dajabr]

59. He'll say more on this in September...

But this is his basic position...

"As President, I will be committed to preserving the integrity and long-term stability of the Social Security Trust Fund. I will oppose privatizing the Social Security System. And I will pursue a responsible economic agenda, and under my plan we will never have to consider raising the retirement age.

The long-term future of Social Security and financial security for all of us in our retirement years depends on ensuring a healthy rate of economic growth over the next several decades. Even a modest increase in long-term growth rates will ease the burden on the Social Security Trust Fund. If we do need to bring more money into Social Security, then I'm prepared to look at reasonable options for expanding the ceiling on payroll taxes.

The best guarantee for our Social Security, therefore, is an economic plan with three basic principles:

First, we must create economic growth and jobs new jobs, more jobs, and better jobs for Americans;

Second, we must return to fiscal sanity, for the sake of future generations, yes but also for the sake of our very national security. We cannot be a world-class country if we are the world's largest debtor;

Finally, we must reform our tax system. When I am President, I will work to repeal the top heavy Bush tax cuts, and replace them with a system that is fairer, and simpler, and places less of a burden on working Americans who live off their paychecks."

Location: Des Moines, IA
Date: 07/30/2003

http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000016072&keyword=&phrase=social+security&contain=

Also here: http://deandefense.org/archives/000670.html

[w4rma]

60. Here is the link to that speech on the Dean campaign website

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7343

[Octafish]

61. Thanks, dajabr and w4rma!

Much obliged. Dr Dean wants to make clear he will preserve Social Security.