Dean: "I know John (Kerry) he doesn't stand up for Civil Rights."

[VoteClark]

I was angry when Dean said this about Kerry on C-Span in Iowa to a supporter at Arnold's Park. I think Kerry has an outstanding record on civil rights. If you don't believe this, watch C-Span tonight, he comments on this a women wearing sunglasses at a table.

J4Clark

[George_Bonanza]

1. That's bullshit

Kerry has a very strong record on voting pro-gay in the Senate. The Defense of Marriage bill, which was passed by the Clinton administration, was voted NO by Kerry, one of only a handful of dissenters. He also voted to include anti-gay crimes as hate crimes, and voted in the 80s to include gays in the military without obstruction, and this was before the gay issue was a hot topic. Also, he voted to end anti-gay discrimination in the workplace. I hope Dean's not placing his belief on the mere fact that Kerry voted for the Patriot Act, because it's really tiring having to argue that one.

[quinnox]

2. Yea, this is outrageous

If Dean really said this, he is just plain wrong.

[JohnKleeb]

9. sigh turning me off Howie, lemme go disprove this

http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=S0421103#Civil+Rights
my source
2002 On the votes that the Human Rights Campaign considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2002 Bsed on legislative votes, sponsorship of legislation not voted upon, and endorsements of special "dear colleague" letters that the Arab American Institute considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Kerry supported their preferred position 75 percent of the time.

2002 On the votes that the National Hispanic Leadership Agenda considered to be the most important in 2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 82 percent of the time.

2001-2002 On the votes that the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001-2002 On the votes that the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights considered to be the most important in 2001-2002, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001 On the votes that the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People considered to be the most important in 2001, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001 On the votes that the Human Rights Campaign considered to be the most important in 2001, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2001 On the votes that the National Hispanic Leadership Agenda considered to be the most important in 2001, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 82 percent of the time.

2000 On the votes that the National Hispanic Leadership Agenda considered to be the most important in 2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2000 On the votes that the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People considered to be the most important in 2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 93 percent of the time.

1999-2000 On the votes that the Human Rights Campaign considered to be the most important in 1999-2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

1999-2000 On the votes that the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights considered to be the most important in 1999-2000, Senator Kerry voted their preferred position 94 percent of the time.
If this were school Kerry would have like a B+ or A average. His worst percentage was 75% that is better than what most republicans get, so Kerry can defend his record easily. This really is what turns me off about Dean really, I am not even a Kerry supporter but Kerry was one of the first to bring attention to gay rights I've been told, those are good grades people.

[CMT]

13. Vote4Clark is wrong--Dean referring to John Ashcroft

eom.

[JohnKleeb]

18. I know that I corrected myself and apologized

[JohnKleeb]

19. I know that I corrected myself and apologized

[CMT]

31. I know you to be a fair minded person

believe me if my guy Dean actually did say this about JF Kerry I would be outraged too.

[JohnKleeb]

34. thanks I noticed you are the same

giving positive words on Kucinich. Too bad Dean and Kerry hate each other really. It seems it was Ashcroft not Kerry, if Dean said this I think he would have to be pretty damn dumb, and he cant be that dumb.

[CMT]

45. yes, but watch how they will kiss and make up when one or the

other is nominated. Kerry would work for Dean's election and Dean would work for Kerry and both would work for DK if he is nominated.

[Nicholas_J]

63. Well now lets ask another question

CAN anyone give me a list of legislation that Governor Dean asked the democratic party of Vermont to write or sponsor, becasue he wanted to enforce Civil Rights.

This is what an a member of the executive Branch does.

Just like Bush came to office promising that he woulf ask for legislation to cut taxes, and legslation to ban partial birth aboirtion, and supported the case against the University of Michigans affirmative actionn policy, how did Howard Dena use his executiove authority to add legislation that expanded Civil Rights in Vermont. He did not request that the legislature write legislation that created Civil Unions in Vermont, this legislation was the result of a court order. Can anyone provide information that Dean requested and was at the forefront of sponsoring state legislation to expand civil rights and affirmative action within the areas of responsibility that fall under states right.

Let us compare Deans active record in this area with Kerry's.

As governor, he was responsible for setting the direction and tone of all state legislation. How well does Dean fare against Kerry in the creation, and sponsorship of such legislation?

[dsc]

64. You have been given this list several times

He was the driving force behind the gay and lesbian civil rights act in Vermont passed in 1992. Most, if not all, other civil rights laws in Vermont were passed in the 60's or earlier when Dean was in high school.

[lastliberalintexas]

79. Even in a thread based on an outright LIE

you have to jump in and bash Dean, huh? Really, basket weaving would be a good hobby. :-)

[hedda_foil]

3. Oh for God's sake. He was talking about John ASHCROFT!

A voter asked him about the Patriot Act. He referenced Ashcroft by his full name and then said the "I know John" part. Either you didn't listen or you're trying to start something.

[acerbic]

10. So this one is a million points for Dean in the category

"whose supporters lie and slander less". I think the contest is about over...

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[killbotfactory]

7. That's surprising!

I would have never guessed!

[VoteClark]

8. Wrong, he said it the Arnold's Park not the forum, sorry

Yes, he did attack Ashcroft, but he attacked Kerry at Arnolds Park. You got the wrong forum.

J4Clark

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mandyky]

17. We are all talking about Arnolds Park

As mentioned before a lady was talking about the Patriot Act and the John mentioned was Ashcroft. Please check your facts before posting lies.

[madfloridian]

39. We watched it and taped it. What did he say to attack him?

What did he say? I did not hear it, my husband did not hear it.
Tell me how he attacked, I will go and rewind the tape and look it up! And I wil apologize profusely if I am wrong.

[billbuckhead]

11. I hate Dean Quixote but I thought he said it about Gen. John AshKKKrack

My girlfriend saw Dean on C-Span tonite for the first time on TV and didn't like that little prick either. Dean says enough stupid stuff on his own without being misinterpreted.

[dsc]

65. I stand behind what I posted

in this and every other deleted post on this thread. There is no other word for what Vote Clark posted than the forbidden one I used. It wasn't an honest mistake. It wasn't a misunderstanding. It wasn't anything other than a calculated statement to get back at me for having th unmitigated gall to point out that on the very same day he asked for a truce he posted unsubstanciated charges about Dean and refused to back down when I called him on it. You can delete this post or not I don't care. But I didn't use the forbidden word this time though I know, you know, he knows, and the people of DU know just what I think his post was.

[CMT]

5. once again get your facts straight

he was speaking about John Ashcroft not John Kerry.

[JohnKleeb]

12. sorry people my mistake I posted before this came up

Ashcroft and Civil Rights well I think even Lieberman knows that. My bad,

[mandyky]

6. He was talking about John Ashcroft

But apparently you just like to start trouble!

[whirlygigspin]

15. please get your names straight

John Forbes Kerry
is no
John Ashcroft

[kainah]

14. Much is caught by those C-SPAN cameras

that I am sure they would wish weren't said. I once saw a man come up to Dan Quayle in Ohio and ask, "What are we going to do about the n*****s?" Quayle's reaction was pretty interesting -- trying to answer this guy in some non-committal way while trying to get as far away as fast as possible.

That's a bad rap on Kerry and, assuming Dean did say it, that's very disappointing.

[dsc]

20. Can you even read?

There are not one, not two, not three, not four, but five count them five posts on this thread saying that it is a flat out lie and he has no citation to back him up. No transcript no news report no nothing.

[VoteClark]

22. What is probably what happened with Dean

This women probably didn't like Kerry and Dean was trying to appease her.

[Cha]

32. You're wrong!

[Nicholas_J]

21. Dean does this all of the time:

HE attakced Kerry once before, and ended up apologizing in South Carolina and had to admit to Kerry's records regarding gays. This one is goingf to blow up in Deans dface soon, and Kerry will likely pull Deans reluctance and hesitating over civil unions as a part of the backlash.

[mandyky]

24. Dean bashers are just baiting

Time to go to deanforamerica for the "feed the troll" fundsraising efforts! LOL

Once certain names appear in a Dean thread, you know what happens...

[CMT]

26. so you are taking it for granted that Dean really said this?

when all these other people are disputing this. If Dean really said this (regarding Kerry) it would be a major story because the Kerry people (rightly) would be outraged and press the point.

[Nicholas_J]

71. Yup

HOWARD DEAN
To set the record straight, the reporter in "The San Francisco Chronicle" put a correction in the following day. I did not question Senator Kerry's records on gay rights. He has a very good one.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS
(Off Camera) And you're not going to do it now?

HOWARD DEAN
No, I have no reason to. He has a good record on gay rights.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

78. Dean: "He has a good record on gay rights"

Damn that Dean! There he goes, slamming Kerry again!

Dean has never attacked Kerry for his position on civil rights, gay rights, etc.

Um, Nick, I think the question was about the original post, whether you actually thought that Dean said "I know John (Kerry) he doesn't stand up for Civil Rights." VoteClark has watched the tape and apologized for confusing John Kerry with John Ashcroft.

Unless you think that Dean secretly MEANT "John Kerry." Hmm...maybe he was speaking in code to his legions of brainwashed followers? Can't believe I didn't catch that...must drink more Kool-Aid!

[dsc]

30. Yet another bizarre tale brought to you by Nick

the real story is that Kerry said Dean had attacked him based on a newspaper article for which Dean got a retraction. Yet again the truth alludes Nick. Why am I not shocked?

[madfloridian]

40. I have the tape of the whole program.

We watched the whole program. Tell me what he said!

[madfloridian]

48. Waiting to hear what part of the tape to watch.

I will save this one for verification,and proof of what a good job Dean did tonight.

[MercutioATC]

55. He didn't apologize...he was misquoted.

He SAID that he was misquoted and that he respected Kerry's strong record on fighting for gays.

[Nicholas_J]

72. The same way that Dean apologized to Edwards

But refused to apologize to Kerry for the same thing he accused Edwards of, stating that Kery's waffled, but one reporters asked Dean what he meant by that, he did not respond.

[Nicholas_J]

73. Dean did this before apologizing for attacking Edwards

But refused to apologize to Kerry for the same thing he accused Edwards of, stating that Kery's waffled, but one reporters asked Dean what he meant by that, he did not respond.

At the same press discussion Dean admontted to the press that HE knew the OCtber Resolution did not authorize Bush going to war. remember when I told you about talking to Dean and why I thought he was a liar. I was sitting right there when he said it.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

75. Actually, he did not attack Kerry on gay rights before South Carolina

He attacked Kerry for something else and the reporter later admitted she had misreported what he had said and that he never attacked Kerry on gay rights.

[George_Bonanza]

23. Could we get a link to that CSPAN video?

[VoteClark]

25. I don't how to do that, I just watched it.

[JohnKleeb]

27. try www.cspan.org

:shrug:

[VoteClark]

29. The last video is for 8/3/03, this was just on

[dsc]

28. try

www.cspan.org

I don't think it is there but I have a tough time with their website due to having webtv.

[mandyky]

36. Search for Howard Dean

in the video search box on the home page - tonight's event is top of the list.

[dsc]

43. Thanks

Since I can't use the media they use for videos on my machine someone else will have to post the actual link.

[DrFunkenstein]

41. The Go-To Link For Dean Fans To See Speeches On C-Span

http://www.c-span.org/Search/basic.asp?BasicQueryText=howard+dean&SortBy=date

That's his speeches sorted by date. Great resource.

http://www.c-span.org/Search/basic.asp?BasicQueryText=john+kerry&SortBy=date

That's Kerry's.

You can type in any name in search, but I find it easier if you sort by date. Wes Clark, Carol Moseley Braun, etc.

Enjoy.:)

[dsc]

47. Thanks

Since I can't view videos on their programs I have to watch them on CSPAN itself but for those who can you did good.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

77. I recorded it to DVD

and I just rewatched it. He was definitely talking about Ashcroft...the person was expressing concern about the Patriot Act and he talked about the need to appoint judges who will uphold the constitution and strike down the parts that are unconstitutional. Then the person said "but Ashcroft..." and he said "I've known John a really long time, and civil liberties were never his big thing." He was talking about Ashcroft, not Kerry.

[sugarcookie]

33. If you are talking about CSPAN tonight

when he was mingling with the crowd. He was referring to John Ashcroft. He was discussing the Patriot Act with a woman and she brought up Ashcroft. His response..."I've known John a long time and civil liberties are not his thing."
I know because I taped it. Rewound it several times and played back to be sure before I posted.

If you taped it you can find it about 13-14 minutes in the beginning before he speaks he is mingling with the crowd.

Edit: To add more text

[Cha]

Thank you, sugarcookie!

I'm glad you saw it so we can know what really happened! :kick:

[liberalnurse]

46. I'm at work just popping in....

Whooo....action at DU....VoteClark likes to cause conflict...
Okay, I'll go back to work.

[DrFunkenstein]

35. Ashcroft. Kerry. What's The Difference...

They both support the Patriot Act and want to dissolve the Bill of Rights the first chance they get.

[JohnKleeb]

38. The one I am not afraid of?

:shrug: and the other makes me feel scared.

Look at those owl eyes, big Jonny A is watching you.

Now this guy doesnt give me the willies, has some good ideas, isnt a chickenhawk, and doc funk is it just me or does JFK(John Forbes Kerry) have a little bit of peach fuzz heh, wouldnt mind seeing him with a beard lol, remember the media and Gore's beard.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

50. Yikes! Giant picture of John Ashcroft!

It's your fault if I wake up screaming tonight!

[DrFunkenstein]

51. That's What I Call Big Brother!

But the picture of Kerry is fantastic! He looks like a classical painting or sculpture or something!

I see the fuzz! But I'm thinking more along the lines of a handlebar moustache...

PS - What's the link for that photo?

[JohnKleeb]

60. right click it

just went image hunting.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

42. I will go and check out the tape!

If nothing is there, some apologies are in order.

[madfloridian]

44. Waiting!

:shrug:

[JohnKleeb]

49. I already apologized

but will do so again
Sorry misintepretion.

[dsc]

52. It isn't you for whom we are waiting

it is Vote Clark. He posted the lie and he needs to come clean.

[JohnKleeb]

56. *nods*

*rants* Isnt Ashcroft evil? He has owl eyes hehe. Sorry just needed something for humor, Ashcroft is evil. Cant wait to get rid of him if the dem keeps on *cough* what an idiot. I hate that guy, having at the department of justice is like having David Duke or Fred Phelps head the president's council on civil rights, sorry about misintepretion earlier dsc,

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JohnKleeb]

62. what was that guys?

I insulted Ashcroft, well he does have those owl eyes come on. Jesus christ, thank god I didnt insult his or her beloved president.

[madfloridian]

54. Not you,..... Vote Clark and Nicholas_J......you are always fair.

You are very good about fessing up and being nice, John. Unless I read the thread wrong, they have not told me where to look on the tape.

[George_Bonanza]

53. I'm sorry that this thread was based on a fault

But hey, I never said anything against Dean, I just defended Kerry. But it doesn't matter now, since it's most likely a big misunderstanding.

[acerbic]

57. Not at all likely

But it doesn't matter now, since it's most likely a big misunderstanding.

When a "misunderstanding" is stubbornly repeated over and over after the truth has quite credibly been told, it's not a "misunderstanding". Guess what it is...

[madfloridian]

59. Yes, it starts with L and ends with e. And has an i in the middle.

:shrug:

I think those who perpetuated it should either prove it or apologize. This is beyond funny anymore.

[VoteClark]

61. You right, it was John Ashcroft, I watched again, Sorry

[dajabr]

66. 10 words... nt

[George_Bonanza]

69. There, everything's settled

See, a simple misunderstanding. VoteClark is unabashed in his anti-Dean stance, but he knows when he's made a mistake.

[MercutioATC]

67. Hey, we all make mistakes...admitting them goes a long way

Quite of your posts ARE anti-Dean, however, so you have to expect some real opposition when you post a thread like this.

If people felt you were less of a character assassin when it came to Dean, I'll bet they'd cut you more slack...


...just a thought...

[VoteClark]

68. well, I thought that was who ihe was referring to. I deserve it the crap

[poskonig]

70. This is just over the top.

I'm sick to death of all of these baseless attacks on Dean.

I know, when I stick up for Howie, I'm somehow bashing other candidates or some other nonsense.

:crazy:

[UnapologeticLiberal]

74. How do we know he was referring to Kerry?

I heard that too and he just said John and I did not hear the question so I did not know who he was referring to. I thought it might be Kerry but I did not think he would make that horrible of an accusation this early...he even said in South Carolina in May that Kerry had a very good record on civil rights for gays and lesbians. Are you sure he was talking about Kerry?

[dajabr]

76. Please see post #33 & #61... nt

[pmbryant]

80. Locking

Since the headline is inaccurate and misleading, I am locking this thread.

pmbryant
DU Moderator