Kerry verus Dean on-line supporters

[msanger]

I thought this desevered its own thread - but it is based on a call for Kerry supporters to sign up now at his web site.

at 11:15 kerry has 199,043 supporters signed up.
at 11:15 dean has 265,443 supporters signed up.

This seems like alot of kerry support - especially if you've been thinking that dean has all the web based folks.

There are all kinds of ways to look at this, all dending on who you support.

Kerry has a national network, and everybody who supported him in his runs for Sentate. He bought mailing lists (so says another DU poster.)

It will be interesting to see how his supporters end up actually supporting him.

I hope each candidate (and a few of the others) end up with at least on line supporters 1,000,000 by the time the primaries roll around, and once we have chosen a candidate, all 5,000,000 of us get behind him.

Imagine 5,000,000 kerry, dean, graham, gore, clark, gephardt, kucinich, braun, sharpton supporters each donating $50 dollars to the DNC the day before the convention. There goes bush's 250 million dollar war chest!

Of course, if you want to commit to that goal, you can sign the pledge in my sig line.

[Vis Numar]

1. This is a spam list.

Kerry bought lists of emails, and has been scouring the web for emails, then adding them to his list.
I know this for a fact, because I never joined Kerry, yet have been getting spam from him.

You guys are all working the threads here now, putting up this made up list as if it's real.

You should be ashamed for this type of deception. SO should Jordan and Kerry, but obviously, they will do anything to attempt to win.

It wont work. Kerry is dropping in the polls, he's losing.

[blm]

2. HAHAH...

We'll see soon enough. That inevitability ploy that the GOP uses for Bush is being used on Dean. Hah...Bushlite.

Dean has had almost 5 whole months of the corporate media promoting his candidacy and ignoring the other candidates. Two-thirds of the public don't even know who is running. Get real.

[RogueTrooper]

9. Not sure what you mean

I think you are making that bit ( 5 whole months ) up BLM. Until the second quarter funding results Dr. Dean was not getting very much mainstream media. The hard work of the campaign, and the campaign volunteers, is what has got the Dean campaign to the top-tier of the Primary candidates.

If Kerry is buying up spamming lists then he is making a very big mistake. I cannot see this going down well in the internet community and they will most probably kick up a fuss. I would guess that he is trying the play to the old media gallery with that one. This may go down in the pundocracy of old media but the new media crowd are going to be having some choice words with your campaign.

[blm]

14. Nope...the press was touting him as the antiwar liberal

OVER Kucinich who was actually speaking at antiwar rallies that Dean ducked. Both of them were little known, but, Dean who wasn't even staunchly antiwar got almost ALL the media attention and the $$$ and support followed.


Dean kept getting press for attacking the other Democrats and the party soon after. The media LOVES to trumpet attacks on Democrats. Makes their job so much easier.

[killbotfactory]

17. Kucinich wasn't in the race until February of this year...

By the time DK was in the race, Dean was gaining his momentum.

[blm]

20. Thanks to his attacks on the other Dems.

He was doing what the press loves...BASHING real Democrats who had been battling the GOP thugs and their thug mediawhores for decades.

[RogueTrooper]

22. My perception

was that Howard Dean was getting some spineless Democrats told. And when it comes to fighting the GOP, Howard Dean has been in those trenches as well. I am not sure what you call facing down the Religous Right but I call it battling the GOP thugs.

They may have been good comrades for decades but they have been little more than putty in Karl Rove's hands since Bush stole the Presidency.

[blm]

26. That was ONE issue...

and he was fighting for reelection as gov. then, he never fought FOR civil unions.

Dean governed as a centrist who didn't like to fight so he often aligned himself with the GOP and AGAINST the Democrats in Vermont.

Dean supported Bush alot more than you realize. Yucca Mt. and Sierra Blanca for example.

Dean also publicly refused in July 2002 to support Gore and Kerry in their criticisms of Bush in Afghanistan. He chose to support Bush instead.

[killbotfactory]

23. Yeah, I'm sure they eat up all of Kerry's attacks on Dean.

Like saying he wants to erode the US military, or that he wants to give the UN a veto on national security, or that he didn't do much for Vermont in terms of health care, or that he can't win because he was against the Iraq war, or that he's had six different positions on Iraq.

[blm]

27. Yeah...sure.

I see all the press cooing and fawning all over Kerry for the last five months.
Hahah...get real. Dean was chosen many months ago because he's a loose cannon with a mean streak.

[ryharrin]

30. When has the press ever said anything bad about Kerry?

And I don't mean some right-winger calling him french-looking. He's just been ignored pretty much, while Dean has been attacked relently for everything except for his fundraising which has gotten some positive press.

[Nicholas_J]

32. Dean is immenently attackable.

After all he has been caugnrt lying about candidates, about statements about social security recently. The press loves catching liars. And they know Kerry is the Mr Clean of washington, It is going to be interesting to watch the press begin to take Deans record and statements apart starting in Septemeber, as the other candidates start going at it heavily.

In a recent New Republic Article:

Bitter Pill: Howard Dean and the tempting of the Democrats.

by Jonathan Chait, the New Republic, July 28, 2003

It’s a bit odd to begin an article about Dean, written supposedly from a Democrat’s perspective, by quoting the right wing media. Why should we given any credence to what they say about anything? These are, after all, the people who still claim that the U.S. is going to find weapons in Iraq, who believe that defunding the federal government via massive tax cuts for the rich is good for the economy, and who say with a straight face that Bush is a man of integrity and intelligence.



The glee Dean inspires among Republicans is exceeded only by that of his supporters. He has attracted a cultlike following, similar to that of John McCain or Ross Perot, although it is largely confined to liberals. Dean is soaring mainly because he has tapped into the intense anger Democrats feel toward Bush. But, in this case, anger has gotten the better of reason. Democrats' justified desperation to unseat Bush may, paradoxically, render them less able to do so. The trouble is not Dean himself (he is a decent man) nor even necessarily how he might govern (more responsibly than some would think). It's that he has come to represent a political delusion: that on every issue Democrats have a moral and strategic obligation to oppose Bush diametrically. This delusion could enfeeble the Democratic Party in 2004, whether or not it makes Dean its nominee.



The heart of Dean's appeal is his audacious claim that he, alone, has the guts to criticize Bush. "I think that, for too long, Democrats have been afraid to take on the president," he told National Public Radio in March. "The only hope Democrats have to beat this president," he told a Los Angeles rally earlier this month, "is to behave like Democrats and stand up for what we believe." Liberals not only find this talk cathartic, they believe it holds the key to victory. As actor Alec Baldwin told a Newsweek reporter, "I want to know who's the person who's going to take it to Bush. We've got to get rid of this guy."



The fallacy underlying Dean's argument is that Democrats in Washington have gone along with Bush's policies rather than resist them. "We are not going to beat George Bush by voting with the president eighty-five percent of the time," he likes to say. Dean seems to be implying that his opponents supported Bush that often, but actually Kerry, Edwards, and Lieberman all had presidential support rates in the sixties and seventies. And even that dramatically overstates their agreement, since many of those votes--say, election reform or defense reauthorization--were, properly, uncontroversial. Most congressional Democrats have held fast in opposition to Bush's conservative agenda. On post-Enron reforms, the patients' bill of rights, campaign finance reform, homeland security spending, judicial nominations, oil-drilling in Alaska, and other issues, they have formed a fairly unified bloc. Most of the time, though, Republicans have rolled right over Democratic opposition. That's the way things tend to go when one party controls the presidency and both houses of Congress.



Why, then, do so many Democrats believe their party has acceded to Bush's policies? The main reason is that, in addition to lacking power, Democrats lack an effective way to disseminate their ideas. As Michael Crowley described recently in these pages ("Oppressed Minority," June 23), Democrats in the House are often unable even to bring their own alternative legislation up for a vote. In the Senate, they face a Republican majority only slightly less disciplined. The fact that Democrats wield so little power means the media has little reason to pay attention to their ideas. A proposal by the president or the majority leader of the House or Senate is, by definition, newsworthy. A proposal by a minority leader in Congress, setting out a position that has no chance of being enacted into law, is not. In press conferences throughout 2001 and 2002, Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt fiercely denounced Bush's domestic agenda on a near-daily basis and proposed alternative policies. But few people are in the habit of obtaining press-conference transcripts, so almost nobody knew the Democrats even had an alternative agenda.

http://www.demog.berkeley.edu/~gabriel/dean2004blog/Anti_Dean_TNR_July_28_2003.htm

If the Democrats are unfortunate enough to nominate Dean, they will end up givinig Bush the legitimacy in 2004, that he lacked in 2000.

[MercutioATC]

44. Ah, but he gets PAID when he's attacked verbosely! $1 for Dean.

.

[blm]

33. hah...Fineman and Orin

both slammed Kerry in several articles while they focused on Dean.

By calling Dean the liberal antiwar candidate for the first half of the year, Dean racked up liberal antiwar $$$. Too bad he wasn't really antiwar like Kucinich or even a liberal.

[JohnKleeb]

34. Rather is unfortunate isnt ti

Meanwhile Kucinich spoke at rallies, dont flame but did Dean?, it just plain old sucks, that Dean is having a lot of press, you wanna know why DK isnt well known thats why, the press is too busy focusing on Howard "McGovern" Dean that Dennis Kucinich isnt even publicized hardly yet whos the one who helped mobilize the house dems to vote against the resolution, his name wasnt Howard Dean, sigh I guess I thinks that Kucinich should have put his name in earlier but not his fault.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

35. Attacked?

Dean attacked in the press? He's their golden boy right now just like McCain was.... hmmm let's see... independent straight talker challenges the powers that be... yep sounds like the same script... will it be just as effective this time in hurting/helping Bush?

[killbotfactory]

36. You don't think Dean's taken crap from the press?

How about all the backlash from MTP?

The only reason they're paying attention is because he raised millions in spite of all the bad press.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

37. There's no such thing as bad publicity.

There's no such thing as bad publicity. Not as true in politics as show business, but no, there has been no bad press on Dean that I've seen. Where is it? Do you have some links? The coverage really reminds me of how they covered McCain.

[blm]

39. Yep...a bunch of GOP $$$$

to go along with alll the liberal $$$ that flowed from the press labeling him a liberal antiwar candidate. Hahah...a real disadvantage, heh?

Dennis Kucinich SPOKE at antiwar rallies that Dean ducked and yet the media only covered Dean. Nothing to see here. Trust the media.

[janx]

3. Are you kidding me? The Kerry campaign signed people up

when they had no desire to be affiliated with his campaign? I need to learn more about this.

[MercutioATC]

4. I'm not saying it's true, but I think the idea was that Kerry bought

e-mail lists and sent e-mails to those people, then counted them as "online supporters". Sounds WAY too easy to prove to me. I don't think it happened that way.

[janx]

6. For his sake, I hope not!

.

[ping_PONG]

5. Don't even bother....

All you'll find is assertions with no evidence, and denials. For some reason there is a segment of the online activist population that thinks that lying to others is a effective way to campaign for their candidate, mainly (this is just MY theory) because nobody can look at them in the face while they are making crap up.

What this kind of fool doesn't understand is that the lie becomes obvious after no evidence is found (Sound like a familiar pattern?) and it undermines the candidate that they are trying to promote in the long run.

[janx]

7. Unbelievable. How could someone be so slow as to not

realize what is going to be so obvious?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gottaB]

42. Your fact doesn't prove your assertion

I don't believe this is a spam list. I get emails from the Kerry campaign, but it's not spam.

It's possible that you inadvertantly authorized adding your name to his list through moveon or an online poll. Or perhaps people you know are forwarding your name and email when filling out online petitions. But you would still have to confirm adding your name to his list.

If you want off his list try [e-mail]. Kerry's not a spammer.

[w13rd0]

8. Kerry's campaign...

...sends me email, does that mean he counts me among his supporters? I mean, I'll support him if he's the nominee, but as the sig line says, my volunteerism and donations are going to my preference at the moment...

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[George_Bonanza]

10. Spam?

Ooh, that's a dire accusation indeed. I certainly hope it's not true.

However, I just signed up on the website, and the e-mail I got is a very simple on saying, "Dear _____," my login username, and signed "Sincerely John Kerry for President." Is this the email you got, b/c if he is buying lists of non-supporters, you should've gotten this b/c this is the one you get for signing up on his website.

BTW, the ACLU has also been spamming me. They keep sending me e-mail when I didn't even know who they were, much sign up for them.

[flpoljunkie]

11. I believe MoveOn.org gave all the Dem candidates the e-mail addresses

of their members in the runup to the MoveOn online primary. Those Dem contenders who have the funds have also bought lists from the DNC and the Democratic party in Iowa and New Hampshire. Where do you think Dean got the addresses of Democrats in Iowa and New Hampshire so that his supporters could contact these early primary voters?

I receive e-mail from Bob Graham, altho I did not sign up to receive it. I have e-mailed him many times regarding issues, but don't know if he got my e-mail address from his own files or Democratic contributor files or elsewhere as I contribute to a number of liberal and Democratic organizations.

I have not read anywhere that any Dem candidate is spamming anyone. This appears to be an unfounded charge.

[blm]

15. No kidding...I haven't complained once when I get proDean stuff.

Some Deanies have the thinnest skin.

[killbotfactory]

16. It was only if you voted for them, and checked the box...

That said "give this information to the campaign".

At least, that's how it was when I voted.

[Nazgul35]

12. I get emails from the Kerry campaign...

but nothing that suggests that they count me as one of their supporters, so I don't believe it is true...i any event, both candidates have close to 500,000 supporters signed up which is a good sign....

however, I think what is most important (FOR ALL OF US...) is how many of these people are just signed up and how many are actually getting involved in the campaigns...cause come Nov. 2004, we're gonna need everyone putting their shoulders to the grind stone....

[RogueTrooper]

13. If you only go by those figures

then it would seem that your premise "on the internet Dean and Kerry are evenly matched" would be true.

However, here are some more.

Meetup Figures:

Howard Dean: Over 81,000
John Kerry: Over 8,500

Now, of course, there are lies, damned lies and statistics.

There is also Deanspace.

www.blogforamerica.com for active links.

This is a list of the regional Dean sites
Alaska for Dean
Montgomery for Dean
Arizona for Dean
Arizona for Dean Blog
Arkansas for Dean
Brooklyn for Dean
California for Dean
So. California for Dean
Bay Area for Dean
Beach Cities for Dean
Chabot College for Dean
CSU Long Beach for Dean
East Bay for Dean
Inland Empire for Dean
Los Angeles for Dean
North Bay for Dean
NE Los Angeles for Dean
Marin County for Dean
Orange County for Dean
Sacramento for Dean
San Bernardino for Dean
San Diego for Dean
San Francisco for Dean
SF for Dean
Santa Cruz for Dean
UC Berkeley for Dean
UCLA Bruins for Dean
UC Santa Barbara for Dean
Valley for Dean
Ventura County for Dean
Colorado for Dean
Aims College for Dean
Connecticut for Dean
Connecticut forDean.org
Fairfield for Dean
New Haven for Dean
Florida for Dean
Florida for Dean 2
Broward County for Dean
Jacksonville for Dean
Miami for Dean
Sarasota for Dean
Seminole County for Dean
Tampa for Dean
Georgia for Dean
Hawaii for Dean
Illinois for Dean
Chicago forDean.org
Indiana for Dean
Iowa for Dean
Drake Bulldogs for Dean
Kentucky for Dean
Kentucky for Dean 2
Lexington for Dean
Maine for Dean
Maryland for Dean
Baltimore for Dean
Prince George's County for Dean
Massachusetts for Dean
Western Mass. for Dean
Berkshires for Dean
Michigan for Dean
Minnesota for Dean
UMN for Dean
Missouri for Dean
St. Louis University for Dean
Montana for Dean
Montanans for Dean
UNN for Dean
Nevada for Dean
No. Nevada for Dean
New Hampshire for Dean
New Jersey for Dean
New Mexico for Dean
New York for Dean
Albany for Dean
Central NY for Dean
Cornell University for Dean
Long Island for Dean
New York City for Dean
North Carolina for Dean
UNC Chapel Hill for Dean
Ohio for Dean
Oregon for Dean
Central Oregon for Dean
Lewis & Clark for Dean
Pennsylvania for Dean
Bucks County for Dean
Lehigh Valley for Dean
Centre County for Dean
Philadelphia for Dean
Rhode Island for Dean
South Carolina for Dean
South Dakota for Dean
Tennessee for Dean
Tennessee for Dean 2
East TN for Dean
Knoxville for Dean
Tri-Cities for Dean
Texas for Dean
Texas forDean.org
San Antonio for Dean
Sudeep forDean.org
West Texas for Dean
Utah for Dean
Rutland County for Dean
Virginia for Dean
Washington for Dean
Kitsap County for Dean
Pierce County for Dean
Seattle for Dean
Vancouver for Dean
DC for Dean
Wisconsin for Dean
Madison for Dean
Wyoming for DeanAlaska for Dean
Montgomery for Dean
Arizona for Dean
Arizona for Dean Blog
Arkansas for Dean
Brooklyn for Dean
California for Dean
So. California for Dean
Bay Area for Dean
Beach Cities for Dean
Chabot College for Dean
CSU Long Beach for Dean
East Bay for Dean
Inland Empire for Dean
Los Angeles for Dean
North Bay for Dean
NE Los Angeles for Dean
Marin County for Dean
Orange County for Dean
Sacramento for Dean
San Bernardino for Dean
San Diego for Dean
San Francisco for Dean
SF for Dean
Santa Cruz for Dean
UC Berkeley for Dean
UCLA Bruins for Dean
UC Santa Barbara for Dean
Valley for Dean
Ventura County for Dean
Colorado for Dean
Aims College for Dean
Connecticut for Dean
Connecticut forDean.org
Fairfield for Dean
New Haven for Dean
Florida for Dean
Florida for Dean 2
Broward County for Dean
Jacksonville for Dean
Miami for Dean
Sarasota for Dean
Seminole County for Dean
Tampa for Dean
Georgia for Dean
Hawaii for Dean
Illinois for Dean
Chicago forDean.org
Indiana for Dean
Iowa for Dean
Drake Bulldogs for Dean
Kentucky for Dean
Kentucky for Dean 2
Lexington for Dean
Maine for Dean
Maryland for Dean
Baltimore for Dean
Prince George's County for Dean
Massachusetts for Dean
Western Mass. for Dean
Berkshires for Dean
Michigan for Dean
Minnesota for Dean
UMN for Dean
Missouri for Dean
St. Louis University for Dean
Montana for Dean
Montanans for Dean
UNN for Dean
Nevada for Dean
No. Nevada for Dean
New Hampshire for Dean
New Jersey for Dean
New Mexico for Dean
New York for Dean
Albany for Dean
Central NY for Dean
Cornell University for Dean
Long Island for Dean
New York City for Dean
North Carolina for Dean
UNC Chapel Hill for Dean
Ohio for Dean
Oregon for Dean
Central Oregon for Dean
Lewis & Clark for Dean
Pennsylvania for Dean
Bucks County for Dean
Lehigh Valley for Dean
Centre County for Dean
Philadelphia for Dean
Rhode Island for Dean
South Carolina for Dean
South Dakota for Dean
Tennessee for Dean
Tennessee for Dean 2
East TN for Dean
Knoxville for Dean
Tri-Cities for Dean
Texas for Dean
Texas forDean.org
San Antonio for Dean
Sudeep forDean.org
West Texas for Dean
Utah for Dean
Rutland County for Dean
Virginia for Dean
Washington for Dean
Kitsap County for Dean
Pierce County for Dean
Seattle for Dean
Vancouver for Dean
DC for Dean
Wisconsin for Dean
Madison for Dean
Wyoming for Dean

This is a list of the unofficial sites

Action a Day
African Americans for Dean
Americans for Dean
Chat for America
Clean for Dean
Dean 2004 Blog
Dean 2004 Portal
Dean Archive
Dean Defense Forces
Dean for Deaf America
Dean Independents
Dean Netroots
Dean News Clearinghouse
Deaniacs Blog
DeanPix
DeanSpace
DeanTalk Forums
Dean Volunteers
Dean Watch
Dean Web Portal
Deaniacs
Dean's the Real Deal
Dr. Dean the Fighting Machine
Gays for Dean
Geeks for Dean
Grassroots for Dean
Grassroots Graphics
Hack 4 Dean
Howard Dean Goes to Washington
Netroots Howard Dean
Med Students for Dean
Music For America
One Father For Dean
Out for Dean
People-Powered Graphics
Progressive Christians for Dean
Quotes about Dean
Republicans for Dean
Rock for Dean
Students for Dean
Tabling for Dean
Translate for Dean
Two Uncles for Dean
Unemployed for Dean(org)
Unemployed for Dean(com)
Volunteers for Dean
Vote Dean
We Want Dean
Women for Dean

[tpub]

29. not evenly matched

Dean is far ahead on the Internet front. But we have only just begun to fight...

Dean gave us some great ideas, and I think we're going to follow through on them. He's a great innovator...

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[polpilot]

25. Just another example of Dean framing the campaign. Dean has

the other demo candidates 'announcing their health plans' (after doing virtually nothing or failing in their attempts at universal health care for their 3 decades in the political sphere...I know...they've tried...they've done 'something')

Now Kerry's campaign 'discovers' internet supporters after Dean successfully launches the first truly revolutionary internet presence in a presidential campaign. Kerry's camp seems to just mimic Dean's iniatives whether it's 'health care' or 'on line supporters.

Kerry should have role in the Dean administration...something like Secretary of Mimic!!!!!!!

Just another clear example of Dean leading.

Dean '04...

[George_Bonanza]

45. Mimic? Now now, Dean doesn't own the internet

Kerry IS following in Dean's footsteps, that's pretty clear. But who says Dean copyrighted the usage of the internet? He's still the internet candidate, nothing will change that fact. No matter what Kerry does, Dean's still the innovator, always has been, always will be. And let's not forget that on policy and some speeches, Dean's quite the mimic of Kerry.

[helleborient]

28. If the numbers are true

It's 450,000 signed up to fight against Bush, and I say

Good Job! :toast:

[Nicholas_J]

31. Kerry had less than 7000 onliine supporters

At the time of the MoveOn primaries.

Which Means he has increased his support online virtally exponentially compared to Dean who has been at it for over a year.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

41. That's great.

Glad he's catching up. Between my #1 and #2 choice, almost 500,000 on-line supporters! Simply awesome.

[Nicholas_J]

43. My point

Kerry did it in two months.

It has taken Dean over a year.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

47. Again, that's great

for both candidates. Glad to see it! The Internet is a valid and powerful campaign tool, for its ability to bring people together. Also great for fundraising; I know for me I'm more likely to give more often on-line.

Edit: fixed subject header

[AWD]

38. I see it like this...

This is the way I see it.


at 11:15 kerry has 199,043 supporters signed up.
at 11:15 dean has 265,443 supporters signed up.

In other words, at 11:15, the Democrats have 464,486 supporters signed up.

Now let's quit bickering and start kicking Bush's ass. Together.

[DemDogs]

40. Yeah -- and that doesn't count the hundreds of thousands

who have signed up with other campaigns that are not in this stupid bickering between the two "Gotta Have NH" campaigns. (Consider supporting the first one of these candidates who REALLY calls off the dogs in their campaign.)

[George_Bonanza]

46. Kerry has 200K, going for 50K more