Kerry is terrified of Dean

[Larkspur]

That's the conclusion I draw from the posts and threads on this board by Kerry fans who are clucking like chickens laying eggs. And they have a right to be afraid. Dean is firing up his supporters and he has become a magnet attracting new ones.

Let's face it, if Clark enters the race, he'll outshine Kerry and a Clark - Dean combination will be Al From's and Bruce Reed's worse nightmare -- 2 highly popular anti-Iraq war candidates reenergizing the Democratic base.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Correction:

Kerry supporters are terrified of Dean.

[rabid_nerd]

2. Correction

Supporters of each are just plain boring...

[newsguyatl]

10. umm

speaking of boring :eyes:

[clar]

14. I'll second that.

the petty back biting sniping between these two camps continues its long tedious downward spiraling. Promises of ceasing and desisting last for all of about two minutes. Way to go guys.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. No one, and I mean no one, is disputing that.

We apparently got all "uppity" and became just interesting enough for you to step in, throw a firebomb, and go back to your hole.

My formal and sincerest apologies for that. I'll try to remember my place.

[dajabr]

4. It's like the end of every Scooby-Doo...

"If only those meddling Deanies hadn't spolied our plan!"

Ruh-Roh!

[XanaDUer]

6. But remember,

those kids and dog were eating god-knows-what-laced scooby snacks.

And smoking something strong, too.

[dajabr]

7. LOL...

:-)

[XanaDUer]

8. I support Kerry

and I am not terrified of Dean, except the nightmares about him wherein he screws up healthcare.

Those are damn scary...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. What healthcare?

[XanaDUer]

49. When you ask what healthcare?

Do you mean Dean or Kerry?

If you mean Kerry, he supports allowing Americans to buy into the same health care program that he and other congresspeople enjoy at the taxpayers' expense. He also offers this as a preference for businesses to choose to provide healthcare to their employees at the same low rate the federal government gets regardless of the size of the business.

Those who can afford to buy their own can buy it throught the government, with the amount paid scaled to the amount of income made. Thus, low income pays less than higher income, if anything.

On COBRA: it will be permanently extended for as long as the person in out of work. The government will pick up 75% of the COBRA cost until your unemployment benefits run out, after which the government picks up the entire tab.

This will paid for by repealing the Bush tax cuts, but, then changing the disbursements fo the tax cuts by using the portions that the lower 98% of the population were getting from it. Then turning that into a payroll tax cut. This means that no one gets money back in income taxes on any income higher than $86,500.00 per annum.

Then Kerry's plan uses the money from the wealthiests' tax cuts to provide healthcare and refinance the states. By having a pool of federal monies which pays for all extreme medical cases, such as those over 50k, Kerry reduces the amount that insurance companies can factor into their premiums when doing their actuarial tables on risk.

Medical expenses over 50 grand account for only four-tenths of 1% of all cases, but in actuarial tables, are used to account for 20% of all insurance costs. Kerry's plan forces insurance companies to lower their costs and includes a review of the plan in three years' time to determine if insurance companies are dropping their costs in relation to the government paying 75% of all cases of costs over the 50 grand.

If they do not, his plan requires they must.

Is that what you mean? Dean's (ha ha) plan states he will not make any significant changes to the status quo. That's NOT progressive policy and a big windfall for insurance companies.

[ryharrin]

58. I'm not sure about all the details,

but it looks like you just described Deans plan. I was confused reading it until the end. What are the differences?

[XanaDUer]

3. Naw, Kerry has nothing to fear from

Dean, not do Kerry's supporters.

After all, why shold Dean worry about his record if there is nothing in it that could be looked on unfavorably by dems and progressives?

If anything, the massive amount of Dean posts seem to in reaction to any article being posted. Especially articles from progressice sources like Mother Jones or CounterPunch.

Thus, the incredible overration here from some quarters towards anything that is construed by them as "bashing", which they never seem to define.

[plindner]

5. terrified?

Cmon. I support Dean, but I can appreciate Kerry, and will support him if he gets the nomination. I see more imitation than fear. I hope that the candidate that gets the nod will be able to use the best tools and techniques to win the presidency. And that's what we are seeing here...

[Gman]

9. Both guys are terrified

...

Nevermind... I refuse to get caught up in another pissing match with Deanieboppers..

[XanaDUer]

13. "Deanieboppers"!

LOL!

I like that.

[demnan]

11. I'm a Dean supporter

but I think it's an insult to Kerry to say he's terrified of Dean. This guy is a war hero, remember? So let's not say Kerry is terrified of Dean.

[XanaDUer]

15. You got it demnan

it's ridiculous to post like this.

[tedoll78]

18. AMEN!

[slackmaster]

12. Everybody is scared of Dean

[rabid_nerd]

16. Wake me up when this thread is over...

:boring:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. That's 2 firebombs.

[DrFunkenstein]

23. Isn't Dean The Guy Who Went Out Before His Time?

;-)

[blm]

20. Give it a rest, this is just silly....

We know what the fall will bring.

YOU are desperate to portray Dean as "Inevitable" because it fulfills YOUR needs. Stop projecting your neurosis on others.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. Correct.

And "Kerry is pacing himself" fulfills your needs.

Everybody is happy.

[blm]

25. Big difference.

Kerry's record of campaigning reflects that fact of his strategy to be true. He does start out slow and kicks it in the fall.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

62. And Dean has never lost an election.

And that trumps "pacing" every time.

[blm]

64. Then Kerry is doubly ahead, isn't he?

.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

28. Kerry has a lifetime resume of public service to back him up

Dean has what? He went skiing and then sold some stocks and then decided to try medicine. and then became lt. governor and then governor.
Dean's a nice guy and all and even has a bit of philanthropic spirit in him, but Kerry's been in the game much longer. I like Kerry's committment to the causes he has spent his whole life fighting for. Literally.

I like the old horse, not the foal.

[Larkspur]

29. Dean was re-elected as Governor of Vermont 5 times

and held the office longest in the state's history. His last election was the toughest, but he still won a majority even though he faced opposition from both sides of the political spectrum.

Dean took a $60 million deficit to a surplus. This year the surplus was $10.4 million. While Dean was reining in runaway spending, he cut taxes that helped working people, cut child abuse in half, fought for nurses to have the right to form a union. He holds a 100% rating from the AFL-CIO. These are just to name a few of his proud accomplishments.

[Nicholas_J]

31. Most of Deans support came from Republicans:

AS a matter of fact, Deans: opposition came from liberals in ALL of his elections

Some Republicans back Dean
By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER - Democratic Gov. Howard Dean got a boost from the other side Thursday when a group of prominent Republicans turned out to support his re-election bid. Even Dean acknowledged that his fiscal policy was the common ground he shared with the nine men and two women at the table, most of whom admitted to voting for Dean in the last election.

The group, known as "Republicans for Dean" represents the first organized GOP endorsement for Dean in any of his five campaigns.

Michael Bernhardt, a former House member and past gubernatorial candidate, publicly endorsed Dean in 1998, but he was not part of an organized effort. On Thursday, he said he did not want to risk the state's financial health by ousting the governor.

This campaign is by far Dean's most difficult. In addition to the polarizing and emotional issue of civil unions for homosexual couples, he is facing Dwyer from the right and Progressive challenger Anthony Pollina from the left. When asked, most of the Republicans on the committee said they supported civil unions and argued that their support was not about one or two issues.

Gilbert, a former member of the late Gov. Richard Snelling's administration, said he took the initiative to form the group, which boasts a membership of more than 30 moderate Republicans from around the state who back Dean. He said the committee would support Dean's candidacy by reaching out to other moderates in the party as well as helping Dean with fund-raising.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/repbackdean.html

Deanmacknowledges here that it is his FISCAL POLICY, that gives him common ground with his Republican support.

But no, this report from a VERMONT NEWSPAPER, nonpartisan reporting, is of course the ROVIAN anti-Dean plotters....

I wrote the entire article myself, set up a newspaper, created false records going back for a decade, in order to write amany negative Dean articles.

You caught me.

[blm]

32. as a GOP aligned centrist...like Zell Miller.

In fact, if DUers had been paying attention to his GOP aligning ways and mocking of liberals over the years, he'd have as much chance here as Miller for president.

You all just don't care because in January 2003 he decided to trash other Dems and sound just like you. Can't pull wool over your eyes, huh?

[Larkspur]

40. I am angry at the Democratic leaders like Kerry and Lieberman

They act like feudal lords and expect us to behave like obedient peasants and vote for them whether we feel their votes were bad or not.

Well, screw 'em!

Howard Dean earned my support initially for his anti-war position, but since then I've been very impressed with his innovative and energized campaign.

[blm]

42. Heheh...

I'll just sit back and listen while you trash Gore when he endorses Kerry.

[Larkspur]

43. In Gore's speech he referred to a comment Bush said but he got it wrong

Gore said that Bush had said in 2000 that he would be a "healer" not a divider, but that is not what Bush said. Bush had said that he would be a "uniter" not a divider. Could Gore's use of "healer" be a Freudian slip for endorsing Dr. Howard Dean?

In Gore's speech, he chastised the Congress for not debating the merits of Bush's case for war more thoroughly. Why would Gore endorse Kerry, who captilated on the Iraq War resolution?

Gore personally called MoveOn.org to host his speech. Howard Dean won their first primary by earning 43.9% of the vote. Kucinich earned 23.9% and Kerry 15.7%. 86.02% of those who voted in the MoveOn primary said that they would also support Howard Dean. Kerry earned 75.29% of the support to win 2nd place. Kucinich came in 3rd with 68.25%.

Personally, Al Gore will not step into the fray until the primary process sorts out the candidates. Gore does not want to divide the Democratic party any further.

What are you going to do when Al Gore endorses Howard Dean for the Democratic nomination?

[blm]

47. Yeah...sure...

suit yourself.

Gore didn't even have Dean on his LONG list for VP.

Dean's campaign took on most of the Bradley campaign who spread lies about Gore.

Joe Trippi gave Whitewater legs by throwing it at Clinton in a live debate.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

21. They should be afraid, very afraid

Dean is going to clean house.

Dean supporters have had enough of cowardice, equivocation, politiking and hem-hawing. We are tired of corruption and the tacit support of everything the Bush administration does.

We want new leaders to head the Democratic Party. Out with the old.

[Nicholas_J]

33. And we are tired

Of fiscal conservatism like Deans.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

44. Then don't support the DLC's candidate Kerry

Or didn't you know that the DLC is supporting Kerry's campaign.

[blm]

48. Dean was DLC poster boy for 11 years

aligning himself with the GOP often over the Democrats in Vermont.

Kerry maintained a voting record closest to Wellstone throughout that same time period.

Facts...deal with them.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

51. WHY IS THE DLC SUPPORTING KERRY NOW??????

WHY IS THE DLC TRYING TO POLITICALLY ASSASINATE DEAN NOW?

[blm]

60. Because Clinton told them to move left.

That the left was too energized to stay in the center.

Evan Bayh is one of Howard Dean's best friends, and I doubt that he is trying to harm him in any way. In fact, Dean is forcing the lefties who loathed centrism to praise Dean for his "pragmatism" while compromising.

Hahah. What a load of hypocrisy that some politicians and their supporters can shovel when it suits their mindset.

[Nicholas_J]

52. Yet it is Kerry not Den who is closest to being

The "Democratic Wing of the Democeratic Party" closest to Wellstones political record...not Dean. WHo's political history is closer to Bush's than any other democratic candidate, or even any other democratically elected official.


But it is Kerry, not Dean who has the most Liberal Political record of any major candidate.

Dean was:

Anybody but Bush? Watch out, Dems!
Let's aim higher than pro-death penalty, pro-drug war Dean

Take Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont. Right now, he's enjoying a boomlet. Across this great land, ambitious Democrats are hopping from foot to foot in an agony of indecision. Kerry, Graham, Dean, Gephardt: Which way to jump? Dean! Clinton without the satyriasis, Carter without the Baptist sanctimony; a simple country doctor (albeit with Dean and Witter armorial bearings) who ran Vermont through the Nineties, and who, somewhere in the mid to late 90s, began to set his compass for the White House. Progressive, but not radical; against the war, but no peacenik.

I'm a realist. I know that anyone hoping to win the Democratic nomination has to achieve acts of political prestidigitation equivalent to, though harder than, guiding a herd of rampaging Gadarene swine through the eye of a needle. No matter that a candidate might have the idealism of William Morris, the conscience of Philip Berrigan, the moral clarity of Robespierre or Ralph Nader, he'd still have to act as ruthless swineherd. I know that. But I'll confess it. The more I look at Dean, the less I like him.

The death penalty? Yes, Dean evolved into a pro-death penalty position just when he was debating a White House run. For heinous crimes like killing kids or cops. Now, with his eye on the primary in South Carolina, he's added "terrorists" to those into whose arms he would stick the needle. Isn't that the posture of Ashcroft or of W. Bush, who signed more death warrants than any other governor in U.S. history? It is, but be reassured by the Dean campaign. In a Dean administration, those consigned to Death Row will know, even as the needle starts pumping the poison into their veins, that President Dean went that last half mile to ensure fairness.

Medical marijuana? Is the Democratic candidate wholly owned by the pharmaceutical companies, the blue-nose lobby? Dean says, "My opposition to medical marijuana is based on science, not based on ideology." Oh, yeah. Dean's opposition is based on 200 percent proof political calculation. He looked in the crystal ball and decided he didn't want to be pilloried by Tim Russert and the other telly-pundits as a friend of the herb, so Gov. Dean headed off a really good medical marijuana law making its way through Vermont's lower house, the same way he headed off a pioneering health initiative in Vermont. Recently, he called Gephardt's health proposal "pie-in-the-sky radical revamping." He was gung-ho for welfare "reform," which he has called an "incredibly positive force." He's a "fiscal conservative," which is kiddy code for serf of capital.


http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=15211

Best description of Howard Dean by a progressive ever.
Kerry never cut budgets and programs that served the poor and middle class, while protecting the rich and big business. That was howard Deans goal as governor.

So supporting Deancis suppoorting the one thing worse than the DLC...An ultra consevative democrat, who can barely be described as a democrat but as:

After Dean officially announced his campaign on June 23, some news stories identified him with the left. It's a case of mistaken identity. "He's really a classic Rockefeller Republican -- a fiscal conservative and social liberal," according to University of Vermont political scientist Garrison Nelson.

As a fiscal conservative, Dean is aligned with the status quo of extreme inequities. That alignment was on display during a pair of June 22 appearances.

In an interview on NBC's "Meet the Press," Dean delivered a one-two punch against economic justice. He advocated increasing the retirement age for Social Security, and he called for slowing down the rate of increases for Medicare spending

http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=15232&CFID=81%2078495&CFTOKEN=3253804

Dena in terror of the baby boomers adminted he was wrong about the social security age...

But no one has nailed him on his statements on medicare....

Yet....

The DLC will savor one Dean apology after the other.

[rcglenn]

54. clarification.....

dean evolved his position on the death penalty in 1994....well before his White House ambitions were known or in the act.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

56. For the last time

"Working for Change" is not a credible source for anything. They tried to politically assasinate Nader when we was running.

They though Nader was too conservative.

[Nicholas_J]

66. Working for Change and Counterpunch

Are the two moist progressive sources in the nation.

Alexander Cockburn and Norm Solomon are tow of the most respected progressive political journalists in the nation. Independent, not bought and sold by corporate media.

Deanie tactic. If they do not support Dean, they are evil....

[ThorsteinVeblen]

70. Working for Change thought Nader was too conservative.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Nicholas_J]

67. Youn supported Nader

And now switch to that Enviro destructicon Dean...

Now that is amusing.


Try checking under the name "Lucien Breton" and the "Vermont Egg Factory: for a tiny glimpse of Deans destruction of the environment.

Or try:


Re: Greater Burlington Industrial Corp. and Husky Injection Molding Systems, Inc.,
#4C1007-1-EB, Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law, & Order (June 25, 1998)

VERMONT ENVIRONMENTAL BOARD
10 V.S.A.  6001-6092

Re: Greater Burlington Industrial Corp. and
Husky Injection Molding Systems, Inc.,
Land Use Permit Application #4C1007-1-EB
Docket #677

FINDINGS OF FACT, CONCLUSIONS OF LAW, AND ORDER

This appeal concerns review of a master plan for a project known
as the Husky Campus, a 4 million square foot industrial project to
be constructed over a period of 20 years on approximately 700
acres in Milton, Vermont ("Project"). As explained in more detail
below, the Vermont Environmental Board ("Board") concludes that
the Project complies with 10 V.S.A.  6086(a)(8) ("Criterion 8").

I. PROCEDURAL SUMMARY

On March 20, 1997, Greater Burlington Industrial Corp. ("GBIC"),
Husky Injection Molding Systems, Inc. ("Husky"), Joseph and
Barbara Rowe and the Joseph P. and Barbara L. Revocable Trust,
Sherrol Ward and Albee Westover, John A. Russel, Jane Fitzgerald,
Betty McLanel, Nancy Bullis, Robert and Clarice Lamphere, and
Erwin and Lee H. Devino (collectively the "Applicants") filed an
application with the District #4 Environmental Commission
("District Commission") seeking partial approval of the Project
under 10 V.S.A.  6001-6092 ("Act 250").

On May 29, 1997, the District Commission issued Partial Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law regarding the Application ("May
1997 Decision"). On June 19, 1997, in response to a Motion to
Alter filed by GBIC and Husky, the District Commission issued
Supplemental Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law ("June 1997
Decision"). The May 1997 Decision and the June 1997 Decision are
referred to collectively herein as the "Partial Decision."

http://www.state.vt.us/envboard/decisions/eb/1998/4c1007-1-dec.txt

Dean arranged for all kinds of rezoning and spending of tons of taxpayer money to build a bridge for this Canadian company to bring its business in to pollute Vermont.

[ThorsteinVeblen]

68. Ass.

[DrFunkenstein]

26. Perspective

288,368,698 people in the US.

1/2 don't vote.

1/2 are Republican.

That leaves about 7 million voting Democrats (bear with me on the specifics). Do you really think Kerry is worried if Dean gets even 250,000 people to sign for his Meetup? Particularly if a chunk of that group is under 18?

The internet is a small place. America is a big one. Don't get goofy.

Besides, Howard Dean is too short to be President.;-)

[Nicholas_J]

34. And too obnoxious

Th only people who might support his ideas in congress are Trent Lott, Bill Frist, and Zell Miller.

[molly]

27. I'm not afraid of Dean - why would anyone be afraid?

Kerry is going to win - bet money! You can continue to be deluishional if it makes you feel better. I doubt very much if Clark would team up with Dean.

[Larkspur]

36. But Clark will reinforce Dean's opposition to the Iraq War as courageous

And enhance Dean's appeal to honest Americans for opposing the war based on sound judgment when public opinion polls said that 70% of Americans supported it.

Clark's opposition will decrease Kerry's support and bolster Dean's, whether or not Clark works with Dean.

[DrFunkenstein]

37. But What Would It Do For Clark?

You haven't explained why Clark should put his eggs in Dean's basket.

[Larkspur]

38. He doesn't have to put his eggs in Dean's basket

Clark has come out strong against the Iraq War

Per the Boston.com website http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2003/08/12/clark_seen_planning_democratic_nomination_bid
Clark has begun to showcase his political instincts. Last week, in an interview with National Public Radio, he called Bush's decision to invade Iraq without international support "one of the greatest strategic blunders the American government has made since the end of the Cold War."

Gee, Howard Dean, Al Gore, 22 Dem senators, 1 Republican senator, and two thirds of the House Democrats knew that way before the Iraq War resolution was passed. Sen. Byrd kept referring to the 2002 Iraq War resolution as Gulf of Tonkin II. But Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, and Lieberman couldn't see it that way? Lieberman had other reasons for his push for war, but the other senators and Gephardt, who had voted against the 1991 Iraq War Resolution when they should have voted for it were using the 2002 vote to correct a previous bad judgment call. Well 2 wrongs don't make a right.

[DrFunkenstein]

39. Clark Supports "Coercive Diplomacy" (his term)

Dean believes in containment. Clark believes in disarmament though the threat of force.

[Larkspur]

41. Dean can't be boxed in just on containment alone

He will make the best decision based upon evidence, not ideology. Sometimes threat of force or the use of it is necessary in a particular situation, but is not necessarily the course of action for every situation.

Dean has said often that he believes that military force has to be used in a moral context, not on ideology.

I don't know all of Clark's positions and I'm sure that we will get to know them soon.

[Nicholas_J]

30. Yes

When Kerry starts actively campaigning after labor day, Dean will get a doctors note to get a deferrment from the campaign, and go and hide in his ski lodge.

If you listen closely to the Philadephia debates, when Dean was asked about his health care plan, Dean starts giving his rant about doing what they did in Vermont...people eleow 150 percent of federal poverty level get medicaid, thats doing NOTHING, because that is exactly the same as federal medicaid. Same with Dr Dynasaur.


Try going to the Vermont Health Care Authority's web site, look for the page in which you can fill out a Web Form to see if you are qualified for Medicaid in Vermont, and you are linked to the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT medicaid page tto see if you qualify for medicaid.

Last night in Philadelphia, you hear Dean making his claim, and if you listen closely, you hear a low gravelly voice in the background say "BULLSHIT"

Guess who.

The only thing any Kerry supporter worries about is Dena doing to the country, what he did to Vermont, which no matter what his suppoprters say, made it worse for MOST working people.

[Duder]

35. I think it's fair to say...

...that some of Kerry's supporters have panicked judging by their pathetic attacks on Dean last night.

[Nicholas_J]

50. Nope

I just like to post ARTICLES about Dean, and watch Dean supporters begin to post dozens of personal opinions threads without ANY sources to back up their opinions. It it TOO funny.

How many journal articles are here to back up the opinions of the person who posted the original thread. None.

You google on Deans name, and you come up with over 4000 hits, ut you need not go to the effort, as every article is full of the same crap from Dean for America. Garbage.

I am is like a geologist drilling for oil, or a dentist drilling a tooth.

When I see frantic Dean supporter responses, I know I have hit a nerve, and have exposed something that scares the hell out of Dean supporters if it is from a legitimate source, and becomes widely known about Dean.

If what I post is lies, why dont Dean supporters SIMPLY put me on ignore, as if it is absurd, or unbelievable, no one will beleive it. I source everything. with links and ANYONE is free to read all of the articles.

Lots of Dean supporters THREATEN to put me on ignore, but do not. They are afraid of these articles slipping by and someone reading them before they can issue personal attacks about the articles, but offer no articles that counter these articles from a non-Dean campaign source.

So if I am a liar, my lies will easily be seen through, and you need not concern yourself with me.

The only logical reason you must attack me, is that you are afraid, that someone will discover the truth behind Dean by going to the links i post.

[Duder]

55. Nope, I consider it SPAM...

...when someone starts a thread in a span of less than every nine minutes:

Mean, Mean Howard Dean He's Regressive, Not Progressive - Mon Aug-11-03 08:01 PM

Dean's State educators bully homeschooling mom - Mon Aug-11-03 08:07 PM

Establishments and Outsiders - Mon Aug-11-03 08:12 PM

IS DEAN BEING HONEST? WELL DEFINE 'HONEST' - Mon Aug-11-03 08:16 PM

During Deans tenure as Governor - Mon Aug-11-03 08:45 PM

Ah, desperation. Like I said, some of Kerry's supporters have panicked judging by their pathetic attacks on Dean last night. Must really suck to be a Kerry fan. :)

[Larkspur]

61. Yep, that's my feeling exactly, Duder

It's the spamming that's the problem and it just proves that what Kerry fans bashing Dean are doing is smearing not engaging in honest debate.

[Nicholas_J]

65. You consider them SPAM

Because yo can find NO legitimate sources to respond to them.../
You are afraid of them. Dena is afraid of them. Derans supporters are afraid of them.

Kerry's agriculatural polict statement for Iowa is a two pronges approach.
Expect Iowa newspapers to be examining Deans actual record regarding big allowing big corporate agri business to put 36 percent of small family farms out of business in Vermont, all the while speaking about protecting them to preserve Vermonts way of life.

Lots of Dirt under howards nails, and you guys have NO WAY to counter it, and Dean avoids the issues. He is going to very soone be burreid under those piles of records he has sealed.

[Ellen Forradalom]

45. I doubt he's 'terrified'

Challenged, perhaps, but not 'terrified.'

I've been impressed by both Dean and Kerry and would gladly work for either as the nominee.

[Lexingtonian]

46. I hope you're kidding

because becoming one of the Deansane isn't pretty, never mind the costs of rehab and halfway houses and such.

A "magnet"? Try "peaked in July '03".

As for that Dean/Clark pairing, the critiques that kill them with the base are "too white", "Nader/McCain", "Arkansas _and_ Vermont?", "Experience- what's that?" and "now all they need is Ike and a teleporter back to the '50s". I think 'highly popular' is not the rationale that will strike Democrats about such a ticket.

As for the rest of your classism and hatred of Democrats, there are better ways.

[ryharrin]

59. Peaked in July?

How come his supporters have still been increasing steadily since then? And how about the 4,000 people that showed up in Philadelphia to see him yesterday? Peaked? Right. I can't wait to see the next quarter's fundraising numbers. Peaked? Ha!

[Nicholas_J]

69. Coasting

on inertia. a campign can hit a peak at a point, loose steam, and still show increases in polls for a while before falling.

AS a matter of fact, a backlash on those who have seemed to be more active in supprting gay rights is very much anticipated. even among democrats,

Public Shifts to More Conservative Stance on Gay Rights
Change comes in aftermath of Supreme Court decision


by Frank Newport
GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

PRINCETON, NJ -- There's been a significant shift in public opinion on gay and lesbian rights over the last two months. Two polls conducted in July, after the Supreme Court's June 26 decision to overturn a Texas anti-sodomy law, showed a significant drop in the percentage of Americans supporting legalized homosexual relations. The latest Gallup Poll also shows that Americans are now less likely than they were in May to consider gay relationships acceptable, and also less likely to favor a law that would legalize homosexual civil unions. In fact, support for legalized civil unions has dropped to its lowest point of the four years in which Gallup polls have asked about it.

Support for Legalizing Homosexual Relations Drops

Americans' acceptance of the concept that "homosexual relations between consenting adults" should be legal had -- up until this month -- slowly increased, from a low point of 32% recorded in 1986 to the high point of 60% this May. But two separate Gallup polls conducted this month show a dramatic reversal of this trend. A July 18-20 poll found 50% of Americans saying that homosexual relations should be legal, and a just completed July 25-27 poll confirms the substantial drop in support, with just 48% of those interviewed saying such relations should be legal. Thus, the level of support for legal homosexual relations has dropped 10-12 points in a period of just two months.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030730.asp

Anticipate that Deans support outside of the support that already exists to begin to stagnate or increases drop.

[poskonig]

53. The Kerry people do seem a bit insecure.

Team Kerry needs to get on message and stop being obsessed with Howard Dean.

Think about it. We don't see the Dean people obsessing about Edwards, Kerry, or Gephardt, etc.

[genius]

57. Dean wishes

I'm not a Kerry fan. But this is ridiculous.

[styersc]

63. I don't know if Kerry is afraid of Dean but I am.

Four more years of Bush, atleast 2 Supreme Court nominees, declining economy and international status not to mention degrading environment...A Dean candidacy would give us all these things.

But then again on the bright side- we will be able to sit around in coffee houses and moan about how terrible things are and feel self-righteous for "fighting the good fight". God knows as Democrats we are all used to this. All and all Dean as the candidate will give us the opportunity to avoid the responsibility of having our candidate in office.