A very bad reason not to support Dean

[ProfessorPlum]

I've been reading more and more posts here by people who think that the corporate-owned media will really tear Dean a new one and have a field day attacking him in their slavish devotion to Bush, if Dean wins the nomination.

And they say that makes them nervous about supporting Dean.

I don't even know where to begin with how stupid and short-sighted this "reason" is. There are certainly legitimate reasons to not support Dean, or be nervous about it, but this is not one of them.

No matter who gets the Democratic nomination, the media will treat them like as 1) crazy, venal, and dangerous, 2) a sad little clown, or 3) too close to the black people, if you know what I mean, or some combination of the above. Those are their three scripts for dealing with Democrats.

Think, just think, about what they have done to past opponents.

Al Gore was the venal, power-hungry liar who would say or do anything, even lie when he didn't really have to, to remain in power.

The inocuous Michael 'Zorba the Clerk' Dukakis became the man who was going to release scary-looking black men directly from prison into your homes, to rape and murder our wifes and daughters.

John McCain suffered from a frightening temper, post-traumatic stress syndrome (and also by the way fathered an illegitimate black child).

Bill Clinton was the draft-dodging womanizer who you couldn't trust to leave your wife with, and by golly he fathered an illegitimate black child, too, as well as running drugs and murdering people.

If Mother Teresa ran against Bush, she would be painted as "too sanctimonious", and with the backing of the presstitutes, it would stick.

I mean think about it - are any of the current Dem. candidates as acceptible to Bush as John McCain? And they viciously smeared him.

The Dem. nominee is going to be viciously smeared. If Dean remains in front, expect a lot more articles about his "dangerous temper" and/or his "licentious past". But don't expect that any of the other 8 would get off any easier. This is war.

[tsipple]

1. All the More Reason...

...To vote for a candidate with a proven record of getting *his* message out, including non-traditional channels (i.e. Internet). If TV and radio are bought and paid, time to go around.

[LeftCoast]

2. One of my main criteria in selecting a candidate to support

was how s/he could handle attacks by the media. Dean has done a very good job in the majority of cases I think. The Russert interview wasn't his best, but even there I thought he did pretty well. In other hostile interviews (Newshour, interviewed by Gwen Iffil) he did very well.

Gore's biggest liability (imo) was that though he was a reporter, he didn't seem to be able to deal effectively with the press.

Good post!

[JohnKleeb]

3. thats not my worry about him

me and the governor lets say arent on the same page on economic issues. I am stubborn yes and idealistic you bet. Any dem candiate will be slandered.

[blm]

4. They ALL would as the nominee.

However some are getting clobbered or ignored WAY ahead of the game. Maybe to hurt their chances and bolster others as per Rove.

[ProfessorPlum]

5. Dean's already taken some crap from the press

as has Kerry, especially after his much-appreciated "regime-change" remarks this spring, but we haven't really seen much full-scale jihad from the media yet.

As for the media purposefully ignoring some of the candidates, I'd say that only applies to Graham, who they've been ignoring because he keeps accusing B*sh in connection to 9/11. I mean, what have the others really done to rate a lot of media attention?

[JohnKleeb]

6. any attention be the connetion negative or positive

will do some good, no offense.

[blm]

10. Kerry spoke on a stage with Rumsfeld and Condi

and CLOBBERED Bush in front of a VFW convention to great reception by the vets. Guess there was nothing newsworthy in that.

You would NEVER know that Kucinich spoke at any of the antiwar rallies or submitted legal papers against the war. Nothing newsworthy, the media only pushed Dean as the antiwar candidate.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. and that got a lot of press

I even posted links to some of those stories here myself. It was great.

As far as Kucinich goes, I don't think the press has actively ignored him as much as they have actively ignored and marginalized the anti-war movement. What has Dennis done on his own that has been ignored by the press? ( I did see his prayer for America when it came out, through media routes, so he can't have been that ignored).

As far as the story of this pre-primary season goes, however, what other "big stories" do you think have been ignored?

[blm]

19. The networks and cable news didn't carry it.

It was NEVER mentioned when they spoke about Rumsfeld or Condi's speeches. The articles you saw were not plastered all over. and some came two days later.

[ProfessorPlum]

23. I didn't see any coverage of any of those speeches

on TV - not that I would have watched them. But if you Google News on John Kerry from about a week ago or so, you'll find that many, many newspapers ran articles about Kerry's speech and highlighted his attacks on the way Bush is targeting veterans. Good stuff. I think your complaint is not well founded on this one.

Also, if Kerry is just about to start campaigning in earnest, then I expect his media profile will change accordingly, so let's wait and see before we decide if he can control the media, or if the media will control him.

[bbmykel]

15. Oh please, not that one again...

1. Can you support your oft-repeated claim that Dean is getting press because Rove wants it that way? I think it's absurd. Like it or not the US press looks at this race as a horserace and rather than listen to the issues, they report who's moving up or moving down. Polls and money are the main stories to them. Dean only started to get press when he raised money. And, by the way, the press still gets the story wrong 90% of the time so Dean is treated no differently than the rest when he does get coverage. Also, would you advocate that the Democrats choose their nominee based on what Karl Rove (allegedly) thinks?

2. Kerry did get some coverage of his speech the other day at the Veterans event. The stories I heard were not even dissmissive but fairly neutral in tone. I didn't hear the speech so I don't know the overall quality of the coverage. You yourself have said (many, many, many, many, many times) that Kerry hasn't even really started yet so your complaint that he gets no press seems inconsistent with that notion. Remember, Kerry started with advantages in the money arena and, as a Senator, with more access to the press. Give Dr. Dean and his followers at least some begrudging credit for how far they've come.

3. Kucinich fans (of which I am one) need to take note: want your guy to get press coverage then RAISE MONEY. If Dennis raises money, the press will pay attention. They will try marginalize him akin to a circus act and shake their heads because they won't be able to understand his message or why people would support him, but I would wager they would start to cover him.

I hope all the candidates stay in the race and bring their issues to the table. The more Democrats out there attacking Bush, the better.

Mike

[blm]

21. Follow Fineman's stories from early this year.

Rove's whore of the year.

[nedlogg]

7. They're all losers

Personally, I find it hard to get inspired by any of the Deomcratic hopefuls. Sorry to say, but I don't think any of them stand a chance of beating Bush. The best we can hope for is a right-wing conservative third party candidate to suck off some of Bush's support.

And any Ralph Nader wannabes, please stay home. We don't need your "help", thank you!

[ProfessorPlum]

8. That's the spirit! So cynical, and after only 86 short posts.

.

[renie408]

11. I disagree

I think you are being unnecessarily pessimistic. Bush's numbers are not that great and getting less great all the time. He is working hard to become actually hated, whereas his father was merely discounted. I have spoken to many, many diehard Republicans who are talking about "crossing the line" in 2004.

[caledesi]

31. NL? Hard to get inspired? This is a GREAT group of nominees.

and even though I am a Dean fan....ANY of the candidates (well, Lieberman excluded) would do a better job of governing this country than the idiot who drove it into the ground.

I want my country back!

[renie408]

9. It's ok...that's only ONE of the reasons...

I am not high on Dean. I am not saying that I won't vote for him come general election time or even that I won't campaign for him zealously in my area should he win the nomination. I am saying that there are other people that interest me more.

[CWebster]

13. But all you do really is spout negatives about Dean

You see, every once in awhile we encourage each other to post only positive things about their favorite candidate, but then someone comes along, usually within the first couple of posts and throws a stone. Then the food fights start, and everyone says, 'you piss me off, I hate your candidate, it's all your fault' and then the lines are drawn and some folks try to be real careful and subtle and couch their digs with disclaimers like, 'this is not intended to bash'. And sometimes people get really mad at articles that hit a nerve and they dash off furious letters....lol.

[ProfessorPlum]

14. CWebster, I'd advise you to cool it

Your advocacy for Dean runs toward personal attacks and creates more heat than light lately. Respect your fellow Democrats. Dean is a capable person whose campaign will survive even if we don't personally disparage his detractors around here - and may even do better if we don't. So ease up.

[CWebster]

17. Gee how diplomatic

Perhaps a private message would've been more appropriate, unless of course you are using me as a springboard to score points? This started by my reply to the Commondreams article about the case against the case...---(2 threads on the same article) where I stated nothing different than the author--no matter how much people try to twist the meaning of the article. Although, I would add my own intensity in disliking Kerry, in addition to the Dean-Kucinich conflict(if Kucinich was in Dean's position, I would sdvocate for Kucinich), because I condemn everything about the Iraq invasion, those who allowed it to happen and those who get off on military bravado. I will not be intimidated for standing behind that with passion. Live with it.

[ProfessorPlum]

18. that isn't this thread

don't bring that garbage over here.

[CWebster]

25. Sorry, didn't know you owned it

I'll stay off your territoy in the future.

[renie408]

38. I think

that they are referring to a general rule held here that you are not to pursue people from post to post over the same issue.

[JohnKleeb]

16. I never said I hated your candiate

and believe me Ive gotten pretty poed, I actually supported him at one time but you know I realized that on the issues that matter most to me Kucinich surpassed Dean, and on those I liked Dean for Kucinich was better on it.

[renie408]

36. And some people

think that tacking 'lol' on the end of something ameliorates the tone of their words.

[ProfessorPlum]

39. easy there

I think he's going to leave this one alone - but don't stir the shite please.

[renie408]

40. Sorry...

I will head to my corner.

[CWebster]

44. She

.

[ProfessorPlum]

45. sorry

.

[Upfront]

20. Well Said Prof.

Thought about it and could add nothing, except go Dean!!!!!!!!

[polpilot]

22. Watch them attack and watch Dean's #'s climb!! ALL PUBLICITY is

good publicity for this candidate.

Dean '04...

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

24. This puts the bullshit to rest:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=27836

Hopefully for good.

[ProfessorPlum]

26. If only

I think that thread only shows just how Machiavellian and layered Karl Rove's plans really are! Somehow he's getting Kerry on TV as a backhanded way to promote Dean. I can feel it in my bones!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

27. Boxes within boxes.

I just wish I was sharp enough to keep up.

:toast:

[ProfessorPlum]

28. It's like a riddle inside a mystery wrapped in an enigma

but the bottom line is, what you have to remember, is that Rove wants Dean to win. Keep that in mind, and you can't go wrong!

[Nicholas_J]

29. Better pray...

that WMD's have Not been found in Iraq and the evidence is being held back in order to use in the campaigns. If so, a Dean nomination will sweep Bush into office with a super majority due to his claims that they did not exist, and so totally opposing the war.

Then you might see Dean trying to bring up all of the places he said he would attack Iraq unilaterally.

[ProfessorPlum]

32. dude, not the point

the point is we didn't have the evidence we needed before we invaded. At this point it's clear all we had were suspicions which were sold as proof. Dean said we didn't have the evidence we needed before we invaded, and he was right. Doesn't change the picture one bit.

[Nicholas_J]

46. Doenst matter

If the WMD's are found at the locations that the intelligence that Powell said he had as to location were correct.

If the weapons were at the locations that intelligence indicated, then Bush is vindicated, becasue the intelligence he had and that he presented would be correct, and his case was made...

A few weeks ago, the military found a list of locations in which Saddam was said to have hidden prepared and ready WMD's. All of a sudden this list has vanished. Congressional democrats and pentagon specialists are all leaning towards the view that the WMD's have been found and Bush is saving the info to use against any of the anti-war Democrats who may run against him.

Usually when something has been found, and the result turns up bust, the administration very quickly reports that the thing they thought was a WMD was not. Within a few days. This time, the reporters were told about this list, and then all info to journalists was cut off. Not usual for this administration as it has been reporting all along.

[ProfessorPlum]

47. You're right, it will totally vindicate the invasion

I wonder if "your candidate" Kerry (I don't really think you are a Kerry supporter, though) would agree? Because according to you, he will be using this war to set a legal trap for Bush. Does it not get sprung if Bush plants some weapons?

[caledesi]

30. Don't you think HD KNOWS this?

Believe me, he has seen "this part of the show before." They will not "McCain" him because he is prepared for these attacks.

Also, I challenge any of these dirty, thugs to try because unlike McCain and unlike Gore, he will FIGHT BACK and not let them get away with their f*cking lies.

BTW, they are already calling HD "the abortionist" on Freeperville.

[ProfessorPlum]

33. I think Dean is the only one who really knows it

- who has really "grokked" it, you know what I mean? Everytime they bring out these dirty tricks against our nominees, and everytime they seem stunned and surprised by it. Like Gore. I know he won, but does he really have an excuse for how badly he handled all the lies and smear about him?

It's one of the reasons I support Dean - he seems like he's been paying attention.

"the abortionist" - that's nice. He's going to perform a retro-active abortion on Bush's horrible misadministration, and without anesthesia.

[ProfessorPlum]

34. what I worry about is that

there are naive Democrats who still don't know it.

[valniel]

35. Of Course It Is War!

And therefore it is important not to have to many vulnerabilities, e.g military service:
Kerry; Real Vietnam War Hero;
Dean; Did Not Serve, medical deferral;
Bush; Kind of Draft Dodger, got million dollar flight training and then went AWOL!

NICE CONTRAST!!

[ProfessorPlum]

37. military experience can be a plus

in both a candidate and a president, if it is used wisely (and in Kerry's case, it certainly would be - he even has more than experience, he has valour). But the press will be working hard to neutralize that issue for little Georgie.

But how can Dean's deferral be a vulnerability? I mean, Cheney took 5 of them, Ashcroft took maybe even more than that, and those were voluntary, not medical, while Dean never went AWOL.

Chimpy sure has lowered the bar for what we consider "Presidential material" in this country.

[valniel]

41. Definitely, but when ranking Valor, Deferral & AWOL

Valor v. AWOL is a lot more striking than Deferral v. AWOL

The major problem is to make clear the kind of persons/cheats Bush & Cheney are. :mad:

[ProfessorPlum]

42. What you said

also: "valour"? Where the hell am I, the UK?

[valniel]

43. UK is having their own fun

Tony Blair is being crucified for helping Bush justifying the Iraq War!