"Dean Scene" (Great Falls Church, VA Photo)

[dajabr]

IT WAS THE LARGEST political assembly ever convened in of the City of Falls Church. Over 4,000 citizens from throughout the greater Washington, D.C., area descended in the City's historic Cherry Hill Park last Saturday to listen and show support for Democratic presidential hopeful Howard Dean. Dean is shown here greeting the throng shortly after moving onto the stage for the first stop in a whirlwind "Sleepless Summer Tour" that put him in front of similar mass rallies in eight U.S. cities in four days. More photos of the historic event are on Page 13 and a comment on his candidacy appears in the "White House Report" on Page 5. (News-Press photo)

http://www.fcnp.com/325/story4.htm

[JohnKleeb]

1. thats cool but I am for DK

and I live near there. Not your typical hotbed of the democratic party.

[KaraokeKarlton]

6. John, you're 16 aren't you?

You've been sort of sounding kind of down in the dumps about Kucinich not getting much attention. I want to say a few things about this that I hope will help you feel a little better plus maybe understand why he's not getting much attention. First let me say, that I think it's really GREAT that you are so interested in politics at such a young age.

Now, about Kucinich...the country just isn't ready to listen to his message or his style. To middle America he comes off as a little bit on the radical side. I'm a moderate and that's how he comes across to me. That's not saying he doesn't have some innovative ideas, because he seems to have some. The bottom line, though...people your age are a generation that really embraces the kind of ideas he talks about. In another 10 to 20 years that's going to be more of the norm than how things are now. Be patient and do what you can to get other young people interested and involved. Just because things aren't going so hot for your candidate right now it doens't mean that your efforts are wasted. To get the country more receptive to his ideas they need to be talked about. So keep talking and try not to worry so much about the candidate and focus more on the process and bringing people into it. You can make a difference and help Kucinich's causes just by doing that. Realistically, I'm sure even he knows he doesn't stand much chance of winning. But look at it this way...in 2000, he would have had even less attention and support than he does now. By the time 2012 rolls around, you're going to see candidates like Kuchinich getting just as much attention as the more mainstream candidates...because as time goes by, attitudes change and minds grow more and more open. Try to remember that whenever you feel like giving up or that you aren't getting anywhere. Without people like you listening and being affected by voices like Kucinich's, there will never be much change.

Dean is my guy because he's the one I agree with the most and I've seen him work wonders in my state. I'm sticking to what I know is good rather than take any risks. Our country is in too big of a mess for idealism right now. I feel we need someone who is more focused on fixing what's broken and not trying to change what's not broken. I know this is Dean's strong point...straightening out messes he inherits. That's my only priority right now...and it's more important to me than who is the most pure, idealistic or most anything else. There's a job to be done and Dean has a record of getting this kind of job done. He's got the most attention because he is the best candidate for this moment in time and what the nation needs. This is why he has so much attention and support.

[JohnKleeb]

7. 2012 if I can have him as president or someone like that

Thanks for noticing my sadness. It really makes me I dont know wanna cry out of sadness. Its annoying when you know your guy has a lot to offer but the media ignores him. Well anything can happen remember the same press doubts your guy too, they call him mcgovern which is hogshit, now also I know Dean has done a lot but the way Kucinich is ignored has me a very confused person. Well I will try to feel better but there are times where I feel like I am on Arnhem bridge, I have no doubt we have the great fight but we are outnumbered and its a hard fight. That said those who fought to protect Arnhem bridge and died and or were captured were great and brave men. I try my best, and I think that if we can work hard anyone can do it. I havent given up hope because I know that I have been supporting the best candiate the problem is whether he can so many liberals are like glued to Dean and my prefered way of ungluing is tell how Kucinich can offer these liberals more, some listen some dont but being told you dont have a chance really will either make me sad, mad or make me do something about it but I dont know what to do.

[DrFunkenstein]

11. The Road to Justice Is Measured in Inches

Think about how long people fought to end slavery. How long they fought to give women the right to vote. How long for the right to a decent wage.

Hope is the force that sustains us through adversity. Remember that the protests both for civil rights and against the Vietnam War started as 3 or 4 people here and there, getting called vicious names, getting violently attacked, and even sometimes killed. Justice doesn't start with a March on Washington. It starts with a few brave souls with courage to match their convictions.

Accept your sadness and regret as real emotions, but allow hope to sustain you. Remember that nothing is possible without it, and remember that another world is possible.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. beautiful stuff, Funk.

.

[JohnKleeb]

13. yes it is

I know that but I think the fighters on the road musnt be ignored and it is important that they get our support and admiration. Well if someone like Kucinich is elected down the road good. I just dont believe we should compromise our beliefs and thats me Kleeb the idealist yet proud democrat.

[loyalsister]

29. Don't ignore the fighters

However, the realists have their place. Though admired, I can look back and see some of the value compromise might have had in their fight.
It took women more than 80 years to get the right to vote. The idea was first connected to the abolition movement. In fact the women's suffrage movement wanted women's voting rights included in the amendment that finally recognized blacks as human in this country. During those times, it was very clear that the country was ready for abolition before it was ready for an amendment that allowed women the right to vote. Was it fair for women to demand that they be included in the abolition amendment anyway? That question caused terrible conflict.
Some were willing to compromise and work for a separate amendment to gain voting rights for women. Others angrily held on to trying to push for inclusion in the abolition movement, and there was a terrible split in the women's movement.
Fortunately, there weren't enough votes to sabatoge the abolition movement. I think the best solution was compromise. I don't think that women should have denied the benefits of humane treatment to a huge portion of the population in pursuit of their interests to be recognized as equal? I really think that pursuing a separate amendment was the best way to go. And, I bet it's possible that women could have gained voting rights earlier if they had united in the pursuit of a seperate amendment.
The fighters laid the groundwork, but the realists were probably best suited to implement strategy from there. An evaluation of the political climate is essential in determining the most effective means of achieving the goal. It is also fair minded and ethical for allied groups be practical to ensure that political objectives do not slow progress when it is possible (think about that in light of my handle!)
My point is don't give up hope when you see people compromising. Sometimes they are actually being unselfishly practical.

[JohnKleeb]

30. Some of the stuff my candiate talks about is nothing new

:) Its just stuff you dont hear mentioned by the democratic party today, like Taft-Hartley I am very pro labor and I found that always to be bullshit, and you know what so does Kucinich, and imagine how I felt when I saw a presidential candiate agreeing with me on that :) wow, theres his health care plan again nothing new just we dont see in the party of today.

[KaraokeKarlton]

14. I just don't think it's the right time for him

On top of that, he's very, very important where he's at, too. Democrats need to get the control out of the conservatives hands to make for change. Personally, I'd like to see all the Democratic lawmakers stay put and help build a firm majority in the Senate and Congress. Oftentimes, more can be done right where he's at, and he's a really good fit for it.

About the sadness...what would Kucinich want you to do about that? Would he want you to be sad that not enough people are listening or would he want you to be happy that more people are listening to his ideas than they ever have in the past? That's progress and more will come...as people are ready for it. A lot of this is how crowded the field is. Edwards isn't getting much attention, either...and he's even a more middle of the road guy. Gephardt isn't doing so hot...and look how loathed Lieberman is. Kucinich has a lot more supporters on here than any of those. Same with Shaprton and Braun. The only candidates that have more support are Dean and Kerry...except for perhaps Clark, who isn't even sure he's running. Kuchinich has more support than Gore, too. In 2000, that wouldn't have been the case at all. For that much, you can be happy...because it's clear gains for the ideals Kucinich has. It's progress...and it takes time. You are part of that progress. Win or lose...you're learning things and a part of change for our country...and you should be proud of that.

[JohnKleeb]

15. I am happy

that he has the right ideas but how hes being ignored and that disheartens people. Of course he wouldnt want me down, I am not that down but Ive used my bridge analogy a lot recently its how I feel. When will people be ready people were ready to support Dean yet I dont see why so many flocked in the numbers to him, granted Dennis started late but I tell you this, I am pretty happy but there are times when I just sink, I told you I dont doubt the cause is right but its gonna be hard to win being that glue Dean has is like superglue and its tough to take off/

[CMT]

16. don't give up hope, John

When I was 12 my first political hero was Jimmy Carter who no one thought had a chance to be the democratic nominee but thru hard work he made an impression and went on to win the Democratic Nomination and serve as a honest and ethical President of the USA. It could happen again in 2004 with Dennis.

[JohnKleeb]

17. thank you

thanks but as long as the media keeps on denying him, I am ever nearer to the bridge and its not a suicide reference :) I am happy.

[KaraokeKarlton]

19. That glue is strong leadership, John

People have been longing not for someone just to speak up loud for them, but to lead them. People naturally follow a strong leader. That's what the glue is. Dean is the strongest leader of all in the race...including Bush, or Rove, I should say. This is also why I also think Dean has the best shot against Bush. Leadership comes very natural to Dean...it's what he does. He leads. Bush is basically Rove's puppet. He has to be told what to do by strong leaders propping him up. He has to work at it. Dean doesn't have to work at it. A natural leader will always win over someone who is being told what to say and do. Dean has no speech writers...if he's giving a speech, he wrote it himself. Usually he just gets up there and speaks...no notes...it's natural. Bush isn't going to be able to compete with him. It's not what Kucinich is doing wrong, it's what Dean does right, and it's not something Dean has to work to do. I honestly don't think anyone is going to be able to be competitive against that. The press picks up on it, and that's who they are going to be most interested in. That's just human nature, John, and no matter how frustrating it is, try not to let it get you down too badly. Afterall...those who like Lieberman are getting it far worse than those supporting Kucinich. Hang in there.

[JohnKleeb]

20. I understand that

but I think Kucinich is a fine leader as well. I try not to get down but its hard, I am proud to keep my beliefs but I fear that its not gonna come, and if defeat comes that will be tough I will get over it.

[Upfront]

22. Karaok

You are showing me some real class. You are what it is all about to be a crat. Thank you.:toast:

[JohnKleeb]

23. thank karaok

for observing I was down, I really try to my chin up so to say and times are tough. There is one thing I wont doubt though, that I am supporting what I believe in and thats what its about for me, Thanks again maybe momentum will come some day I sure do hope so.

[KaraokeKarlton]

33. You're quite welcome

It's the natural mother instinct in me...and yeah, I'm a woman who just happens to sing like a dude...hence the gender-bending moniker. :D

[KaraokeKarlton]

31. Actually, I'm an Independent

[dajabr]

24. Keep your chin up, JK

And keep trying to do something about it. Hang on to every bit of idealism in your soul as you get older, it will serve you well.

dajabr

[JohnKleeb]

25. it will in fact I feel better

I think whether I get absolute victory or absolute defeat I will be pleased but you know and I know you are for Dean but I am investing my heart in Kucinich which is good because you feel good.

[DrFunkenstein]

8. Too Big A Mess For Idealism?

I think you are selling Dean short here. Try it this way - Dean offers an alternative idealism, one more palatable to average Americans and always aware of the need to take things step-by-step.

That's what I feel about Kerry, but I'm sure you feel similarly about Dean.

In my book, all three are great guys (although I'm stone-to-the-bone for Kerry).

[JohnKleeb]

10. thanks to both of you

I just find it and you're gonna see me use it a lot I call it bitter irony. That said I think all three are great but you see I want a candiate who will better all of our situations, thats why I support Kucinich. Dean was once considered the idealist's choice still is by the media somewhat, its amazing how popularity and money can change things just sayin. Long ago lol not even a year ago Dean was considered a joke to many, yet I see my guy being doubted the same way by Dean supporters and I will say there are exceptions to this comment I do know that but it seems like the views that I think many of DU wanted when we anyone was in the dark against Bush have ceased to be important. Like oppostion of the death penalty, full repealition of the patriot act, etc, it seems to me that many liberals are ironically and its not bad even though I would never use it as a stragety being pragamatic yet I see them get mad and rightfully so when the DLC disses Dean. You know what, I cant stand the DLC, I am the kinda person who would had been a FDR democrat I still am heh, I think if Kucinich doesnt win now its not a loss because hes still the best in my heart and no one can take that away from me, and besides he didnt win his first city council election either so maybe Kucinich could be president down the line but my idealism says its now. I do when I am really feeling down as I said feel like a british paratrooper on Arnhem bridge. The cause is right but its a hard as hell fight. That said I am proudly for Kucinich and I think its absurd that he doesnt get the attention he deserves.

[KaraokeKarlton]

18. Right now, I think it is, yes

There's a time and a place for idealism, and the way I see it...now is not that time. It's going to take a lot of work and time to just undo the damage that Bush has done to this country. In fact, the country needs to be saved more than anything else. This is why I think Dean is the best candidate for where our country is at. He's got the balls to stand up and say, "This is what needs to be done, and this is what we're going to do...and here's why." Some of these things aren't going to be too popular with the majority of people, but they will work to dig us out of the cesspool we're in. Just ask Vermonters...he pissed people off on many occassions with unpopular choices, but we're thanking him now, because he was right. He has experience inheriting debt, paying it off, balancing the budget, implementing social programs that are effective in solutions AND cost, and standing firm on what he believes is the right solution. I think that's what this country really needs and I think Dean is the best one to meet those needs. All I care about is putting someone with a solid vision for sorting out the mess in the white house. I don't care who has a better record about anything but undoing messes and getting on the right path for my children. Their future is at stake and we need someone with executive experience who has already proven himself.

[demnan]

2. Thanks for posting

I was there in spirit.

[liberalnurse]

3. Everyone there has a smile on their face!

What power there is in the masses! I've got one now too! :)

Just Beautiful isn't it?

[DrFunkenstein]

4. Where's The White People, Though?

Just johin'. Great pic!

[Cha]

21. You're right! We need some non "white" faces out there!

Saying ..."We Want Dean"! :toast:

[dajabr]

26. Doc...

I know you're kinda joking, and the campaign is taking that issue very seriously. But, on the other hand, getting blase 30 something whites to put down the Times and drop their lattes to come out and be active in the Grassroots political process is no small feat either! :-)

The tent is there, waiting, with the door wide open.

Beautiful post to JK upthread, by the way. :toast:

[Fleshdancer]

5. Great picture

but what's up with the wire basket?

[dajabr]

27. They had the rally in front of what looked like a barn...

Either that, or he was going to shag some golf balls?

[JohnKleeb]

28. if this was 40 years ago you would see a barn

This area is pretty developed. Falls Church is a nice town, favorite restaurant there hmmmmmmm I really loved the three pigs, also look around and you will see the house that RFK lived in. Now if you excuse me I am going to the three pigs *car speeds off* I wish I cant even drive yet guys but its good to see Virginians supporting a democrat no matter who he is.

[CMT]

9. nice scene

I'm glad that he is generating the kind of excitement where people actually take the time to show up for a rally.

[scotthuminski]

32. HOWARD DEAN'S DISTURBING PROBLEMS

see

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank08122003.html


In a 1997 Vt News Bureau interview, Dean admitted his desire to appoint
judges willing to subvert the bill of rights. Now the fallout from Dean's
appointments are before the US 2nd Circuit at Foley Square, NYC in two
outrageous cases. Docket #s 03-7036, 02-6150, 02-6199, 02-6201 One case is
being prosecuted by Washington, DC first amendment attorney Robert
Corn-Revere against two of Dean's judges for their banishment of a Vermont
"citizen-reporter" for life from all state courthouses because he criticized
one of Dean's judicial appointees. The other case features Dean's judges
violating Double Jeopardy, First Amendment, State law and the State
constitution. See Docket No. 99-445 (Vt. Dec. 13, 2000), aff'g, Docket No.
167-1-99 WmCr (Windham D. Ct. Aug. 30, 1999) Both cases have been briefed
before the Manhattan Court awaiting oral argument. Also filing a brief in
federal court against Dean's appointees is the Thomas Jefferson Center For
The Protection of Freedom of Expression.

Below are links regarding Dean's voicing his problem with the Bill of
Rights. He constantly complains about "legal technicalities" (i.e. the Bill
of Rights) as he did in the June 22 meet the press interview.

http://www.thomhartmann.com/government.shtml

http://www.txtriangle.com/archive/1049/coverstory.htm


A link to a story regarding the courthouse banishment case.
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org//news.aspx?id=5354
or…
http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=13300


A commentary on Dean's subversion of the public defender system.

http://www.talkleft.com/archives/003681.html#003681

Dean's statement on "re-evaluation" of our "civil liberties".

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/Story/33681.html

Criminal sentences doubled during Dean's tenure as a result of his
appointments. I wonder how many of those serving these inflated sentences
were also subjugated to constitutional deprivations at the hands of Dean's
Judicial appointees leading to their convictions? How many of those serving
inflated sentences were prejudiced by Deans' subversion of the public
defender system mandated by the 6th amendment?

In the Meet the Press interview with Dean while discussing the death
penalty he stated,

"So I just-life without parole, which we have which I actually got passed
when I was lieutenant governor- the problem with life without parole is that
people get out for reasons that have nothing to do with justice. We had a
case where a guy who was a rapist, a serial sex offender, was convicted,
then was let out on what I would think and believe was a technicality, a new
trial was ordered and the victim wouldn't come back and go through the
second trial. "

http://www.msnbc.com/news/912159.asp?cp1=1

Now, according to Dean, the Bill of Rights (ie. legal technicalities) has
"nothing to do with justice". In the above quote, is he saying that if
someone was unconstitutionally convicted it is better that the government
kill them before they can point out the constitutional problems with their
conviction?


A further commentary on Dean's death penalty stand.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A1907-2003Jul2¬Found=true

and, noting the "anti-due-process" Dean message,

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/930194.asp?0si=-&cp1=1#BODY

See 1994 Yale Law School commencement discussing the danger of our leaders dismissing the "provisions of the Bill of Rights as mere technicalities.".


http://www.schr.org/reports/docs/Yale%2094.pdf


Scott Huminski
Cary, NC

IS DEAN A CRIMINAL TOO?

Dean's appointment of Vermont Attorney General Sorrell and Sorrell's criminal violation of civil rights law and bribery cover-up.


Dean is quite impressed with Vermont Attorney General William Sorrell. He appointed him Attorney General in the late 1990’s to fill a vacancy and then Sorrell was his # 1 choice for CHIEF JUSTICE of the Vermont Supreme Court. Sorrell was removed from consideration because he had no judicial experience. Good try Dean. A google search on "Howard Dean William Sorrell" speaks volumes. A vote for Dean is a vote to appoint William Sorrell to a very high federal position as Dean will take this unusually close associate with him. US Attorney General maybe?

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean0702/freyneint.html

http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/Story/68525.html

http://www.rutlandherald.com/News/Story/66910.html

http://www.reformer.com/Stories/0,1413,102%257E8860%257E1089066,00.html

http://www.state.vt.us/atg/vtag.htm


After Dean’s judges had been enjoined for 2 years from interfering in my access to Vermont Courthouses, Sorrell engineered a plan to re-banish me. The banishment lasted one month before the federal court woke up and re-placed an injunction on Dean’s judicial appointees once again. Google search on "Scott Huminski First Amendment". The story is all there from the Associated Press, the Freedom Forum, First Amendment Cyber Tribune and many others.

http://www.benningtonbanner.com/Stories/0,1413,104~8678~831060,00.html

Courthouse access is a first amendment right according to US Supreme Court Precedent. See Press-Enterprise cases. Sorrell’s conduct last year constitutes criminal violation of federal civil rights law. See federal law below. They say birds of a feather flock together. Is Dean a criminal too, or just a very poor judge of character. Either way there should be concern.

By the way, Sorrell is currently busy covering-up the acceptance of a bribes by two Vermont Prosecutors, William Wright and John Lavoie. This fact stands undisputed before the United State Second Circuit Court of Appeals in NYC, # 03-7036. Unfortunately it’s not online, but, I will email court pleadings to any interested parties.

Another Dean item….

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html



Scott Huminski

UNITED STATES CODE Title 18

Sec. 241. - Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death

Sec. 242. - Deprivation of rights under color of law

Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death

[KaraokeKarlton]

34. Scott Huminskis disturbing problems

As a Vermonter, I have to say that this guy isn't telling people the WHOLE story behind his legal difficulties here in Vermont. You see, Scott was in a tenant/landlord dispute and he thought it would be a splendid idea to threaten a witness, not once, but twice. So, he got charged with Obstruction of Justice. With his history of filing frivolous lawsuits, the state was kind enough to cut a deal with him. If he paid a $100 fine and quit filing all the lawsuits, the court would let him off the hook. He took the bargain and then had his WIFE sue on his behalf. So, when the state moved to nullify the agreement and reinstate the Obstruction charge, Judge Nancy Corones ruled in their favor. This made Scott a very angry fella. He started firing off threatening letters and made it his mission in life to follow Nancy Corones around and harass her. Clearly the court isn't going to allow this. The police came to ask Scott to leave. Did he leave? Nope, that wouldn't have been defiant. So he got removed from the courthouse property and subsequently banned from returning and slapped with a restraining order to protect the female judge from his obsessive behavior. And of course he sued, sued, sued and sued some more. And he's still suing. Fortunately, however, he has left Vermont and moved to North Carolina, so he's not wasting my tax dollars anymore.