New Petition...Democrats Against Dean...

[Nicholas_J]

Democrats Against Dean


View Current Signatures - Sign the Petition

To: Terry McAuliffe and the Democratic National Committee

We, the undersigned, are Registered Democrats who wish to express our displeasure at the prospect of having Howard Dean as the potential or actual Democratic nominee for President of the United States. Our reasons are the following:


http://www.petitiononline.com/DAD/

Things are taking a rather interesting turn...

[Cha]

1. These waters are snark infested.

[Doomsayer13]

2. okay, this is self-defeating

so what we're going to sit and pout if our candidate doesn't make it? This is self defeating and weakens us in the general election. No matter who is the nominee we need to unite behind that person and make sure that he has a strong base to defeat Bush in. The man is winning but there is no reason to start divisive pary infighting like this.

For the record, I like John Kerry, he's easily my second choice.

[George_Bonanza]

3. This is going too far

As much I want Kerry to win the nomination, I don't want to sabotage the others so much and fracture the Democratic unity so that Bush less to worry about.

[caledesi]

4. Are you crazy?

[madfloridian]

5. Is this our Nicholas_J?

http://soli.inav.net/~njohnson/kucinich/

Just wondered.

Also I think perhaps your petitions need some checking out, don't you think?

[JohnKleeb]

8. no Nick here is for Kerry

that said I am a Kucinich supporter and I wont sign this. I still disagree with Dean on a lot keep in mind.

[roughsatori]

6. Shouldn't they just vote for their candidate in the primary?

I would think that posting this link is contrary to the goals of DU. I could be wrong, but I would be disgusted to see a link to a petition against even the Democratic candidate I dislike the most.

[JohnKleeb]

9. I agree rough

[caledesi]

45. Well said rough.

This type of post is a waste of time and dangerous because it will fuel all the other supporters of a certain candidate to start the shame shit. We don't need that. We will end up with NO Dem candidate.

[Syrinx]

7. DEMS UNITE -- ANYONE BUT BUSH!

This is paramount. More than you must realize!

[liberalmuse]

10. Ah, nice...

It looks like Bush might get another term because of pissy liberals. I guess some people would rather fucking die under a Bush regime than compromise what they view as their 'pristine' ethics a little. Same shit, different color (I am asuming these aren't the Greens this time, right?)

If Bush gets another term, America as we know it will be no more. The human race might as well kiss our collective asses goodbye, because we will not recover from another Bush gang rape on our democracy, and everything that is decent in the world.

Dean is the only Democrat who is going to beat Bush, period. Anyone who's been watching politics for a long time knows this.

On edit: I should have said, 'Dean is the only Democrat in the running right now...'

[JohnKleeb]

12. no thats not why its because nic doesnt like Dean

We cant say for sure that Dean is the only one who can win but I am ABB not ABD. Think twice if you think its only liberals who will sign this, I didnt because while I dont agree with him on a lot I do think he will do some good.

[JohnKleeb]

11. Did anyone see the signatures

most of them were jokes.

[Sinistrous]

20. Those "signatures" are a hoot !

There are some very creative people out there.

[sandnsea]

13. This is disgusting

You need to go find something else to amuse yourself, maybe a course on political campaigning. Posting negative things about your own party would be a no no.

[XanaDUer]

62. How is it disgusting?

It's a hoot. Time and time again, I have seen Nicholas_j subjected to the most base, nasty attacks from certain factions on this board.

He posted a link he said was interesting, and it is. Why should I or anyone else who thinks it is interesting NOT get to read it? This is politics, folks, not a cheerleading squad. I have serious reservations about some candidates' positions on topics. One thing that is disgusting here is the tendency for some on DU to attack other DUers for posting stuff they don't like. IF the post is within the rules of the board, *according to admins*, then it can stay, whether or not some people like it!

In fact, after reading, for months, nasty personal attacks on people here who post things others don't like, I find THAT breaking of the DU rules more offensive than a post like this.

He posts information, and does not attack individuals, tell them to take their meds, tell them they are psychotic, among many other things I have seen here, for a long time.

This is not infighting. This in nothing compared to what the Dem candidate will face, including looks into his or her personal life, and records.

[sandnsea]

76. Harping to the wrong person

If you'll see my post below, I said Nicholas J's posts run about 50/50; some interesting, some crap. This one was intentionally devisive crap. I think I still get to have an opinion. At the same time, I agree with your point that it's nothing compared to what the candidate will face next year and also said that below.

Now, that's not to say I don't find quite a few other posters equally disgusting and hypocritical. Since I am a Kerry supporter, when I see another Kerry supporter being intentionally disruptive, I say so. I'm not blinded by complete adulation for my candidate, which is something else I find disgusting. I think you know what I mean. (that is not referring to you, in case the words take on meaning I didn't intend.)

[Rowdyboy]

14. I don't back Dean but I would NEVER sign this piece of

shit. Dean's a solid Democrat that deserves 100% consideration from every sentient being that is old enough to vote. Any one left of Zell Miller should be thrilled to vote for Dean. If you don't like him, fine....he's not my first choice either. But his ideas certainly deserve a chance to be heard whether you like him or not..

[madfloridian]

15. I found this at Kerry's Blog, they are aware of Nicholas_J.

John Kleeb said this Nicholas supports Kerry. That is good, I like Kerry, Graham, as well as Dean.

This is a small portion of a blog from Aug. 13, and it shows how this is becoming ugly. Yes, this person is right. It does make DUers angry. Apparently the forum managers think bashing is in the American tradition. I don't think this is bashing now.

This is organizing on a Democratic site against a Democratic candidate. This will literally kill our party!

From the blog:
SNIP...."frankly..if there indeed are some Dean supporters who are posting here just to be annoying to Kerry supporters I would guess that some of them could be from Democratic Underground who are being turds in response to those posts by Nicholas_J and a couple of others who claim to support Kerry. You see, his behavior is so disruptive he's destroying any semblance of adult conversation...and the administrators don't kick him out (to the dismay of MANY of the members there)END SNIP

Senator Kerry is a distinguished person, and I don't think he would condone this behavior any more than Dean would. I think supporters have a responsibility to act courteously toward all candidates. I wonder now just who supports whom? How widespread is this tactic of pretending to be for a candidate?

A couple of us have happened on some things that may shed light if it pulls together. It will show that things are not as they seem.

[JohnKleeb]

16. well Ive come to my conclusion through the obvious reasons

avatar and etc. I dont think Kerry or any other candiate would like it, granted my camp the Kucinich camp has our criticisms of Dean on some issues but to start a petiton against him is not us. I admire what Dean has done, and only wish Dennis could get where you guys got. That said I do like Kerry as well.

[madfloridian]

17. You do a good job of addressing issues, being open-minded.

:hi:

[JohnKleeb]

18. its not just the dean supporters who are mad

Sandsea who I saw criticize Dean for wanting to repeal the whole tax cut was disgusted as well. Thanks for the compliment. I try, stuff like this is bull, I just wish we could get some momentum.

[acerbic]

23. Tactics that make complete sense to repuke disruptors:

Attack constantly the Democratic candidates who are the most popular at the moment, provoking infighting and dragging all of them down. The quite logically most effective variety: pretend to be a supporter of the second most popular one and hurl disgusting BS attacks against the most popular.
:think:

From the blog:
SNIP...."frankly..if there indeed are some Dean supporters who are posting here just to be annoying to Kerry supporters I would guess that some of them could be from Democratic Underground who are being turds in response to those posts by Nicholas_J and a couple of others who claim to support Kerry. You see, his behavior is so disruptive he's destroying any semblance of adult conversation...and the administrators don't kick him out (to the dismay of MANY of the members there)END SNIP

P.S. Anybody else who doesn't understand why completely freepish attacks against any Democratic candidates are an untouchable sacred cow at DU now?

[Nicholas_J]

53. Hahhahhah

I have been invited to provide ideas to a number of democrat campaigns for ideas on Deans record.

[LoZoccolo]

19. People who've actually signed it...

...don't seem to take it seriously:

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?DAD&1

Try it, you'll have a laugh.

(Something I've been thinking about is Lieberman's "don't deserve to win" comment...does that mean if Dean won the general election he still wouldn't deserve to be president? Democracy? What?)

[tedoll78]

21. these are Veruca Salt Liberals.

They want the world..
they want the whole world.
They want to lock
it all up in their pocket;
it's their bar of chocolate.
Give it to them - NOW.

...

Ever notice that Veruca dah-ling was never happy?

[genius]

22. Cute. Most of the signatures are from Deanbots.

I guess some of these people have split personalities. So did Dean put this petition up to gain sympathy?

[madfloridian]

27. Don't get sucked into that.

Things are not as they seem. Who gains the most from hurting our candidates? Think! Put on your brain caps.

[UnapologeticLiberal]

40. Yeah, Nicholas_J is such an ardent Dean supporter

and that is why he put up this petition! :crazy:

[Ediacara]

24. LOL

Out of 116 "signatures," only 25 are serious or unsigned (to signify that they're not a joke). The rest are joke "signatures".... Do you really think that this is a good thing to send to Terry M?

Oh, I've got an idea Nick, why don't you LET THE PEOPLE FUCKING VOTE IN THE PRIMARIES AND CHOOSE THEIR OWN GODDAMNED CANDIDATE INSTEAD OF BEING A LIAR-BOT!?

[KaraokeKarlton]

25. If this isn't grounds for being banned, nothing is

I haven't seen anything from this particular poster except for rabid, seething attacks. It's one thing to complain on a web site if you don't like a candidate, but to attempt to organize against one of the Democratic candidates is political treason. And if what was posted on the Kerry blog and pasted here is true it sounds like this guy has caused an awful lot of hate and discontent. Why is this allowed? It just doesn't make any sense at all.

[madfloridian]

26. See the forum Ask the Administrators. I just got a response.

They say it is ok. They are the boss. I questioned it, but I doubt it will go anywhere.

I would say that I might go against my standards of posting if the attacks continue.

Some who are organizing these things are being found out, slowly but surely, and not just the Kerry Campaign supporters, either.

I only hope the Dean folks will stay totally out of bashing.

[genius]

28. Nicolas's posts are fine.

He brings up issues and articles Democrats need to look at in deciding how to vote in 2004. He and I don't even agree on candidates but I see value in his postings.

[madfloridian]

29. Be careful.

Think these things out for yourself. Be sure he is presenting truths. That is all I ask.

[Ediacara]

33. Nick_J's posts are BS

he (and you) use selective quotes not to support your candidates, but to bash Dean. You haven't yet gone into outright lying as Nick has, but your support of his bullshit is a little suspect...

[sandnsea]

36. 50/50

Some are good, some are just plain crap. This one is crap. I wish he'd stick to the ones that bring up issues that people need to think about, because whatever candidate that ends up facing Bush is going to have to deal with alot more than what Nicholas J has to dish out.

[KaraokeKarlton]

30. I think it's over the top and way out of line

this is BAD for ALL candidates. It's beneath contempt. It's people like that who will help Bush win. It also hurts his candidate. You don't win over voters by trying to divide everyone. I'm glad people are treating that petition like the pathetic joke it is.

[madfloridian]

32. I hope the admins will realize it is hurting the board.

They don't think so, though, and they are the bosses.

I think I will stick to the other forums I belong to. They are not so hateful, and attacks like this are not permitted.

I am quite sure no one cares who comes and goes. I guess I will just visit again when the air clears. There are other boards that are not so stressful.

Maybe you could tell them how you feel. I am the only one speaking up, and it is making me look foolish while Nicholas_J comes out like a rose.

[acerbic]

34. You're not the only one and you're not foolish

I've said it before

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=120&topic_id=2213

and I say it again. This is f*cking absurd and disgusting.

[KaraokeKarlton]

35. I said what I thought, and why in the other forum

It sounds like this Nicholas character has been getting away with some pretty lousy behavior for quite some time based on what I'm reading. If one person is causing so much trouble they should just kick him out. The only people I've seen who find the stuff he posts of any value are people that post the same flame bait crap he does, just a hell of a lot shorter. I wonder if the Administrators would consider putting up a poll to find out how the members feel about this? It does take away to the quality of the site, that's for sure. I fear by not being firm on this garbage that it just opens the door for worse behavior. Not good, not good at all.

[Nicholas_J]

55. Thanks admins

This to me is an indication that the party was correct about a Dean nomination being a mistake similar to the 1972 elections which swept Nixon back into the White House with an enormous majority.

There are simply a large number of those who opppose a Dean nomination that they will simply sit back and let the election run its course and Dean will lose, lose, lose big time.

This is a pressty big indication that there are people out there who will sit back to prevent Dean from getting into office. The petition is real, not a joke, the people who created it are real.

The statistic about Dean spending more of his time attacking other democrats rather than Bush is also correct. 54 percent of his speeches attack other democrats with no mention of Bush.

[ProfessorPlum]

61. It's actually only 53.4% of his speeches which attack

other Democrats with no mention of Bush. So stop saying that!

On the other hand, could you please provide some backup to your percentage? Pretty please?

[arcos]

70. He's making it up...

like EVERYTHING he says!

[ProfessorPlum]

72. Ya Think?

I'm sure Nick has some solid statistics to support that claim. After all, he backs up so much of what he states.

[Nicholas_J]

73. Nope

Simply went to Dean for America. Read Every speech he has made, and did the math. 54 percent of Deans speeches are directed at attacking other democrats and do not say anything about Bush in the opnes in which he attacks other Dems.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EarlG]

75. Wait a second

My post in Ask The Administrators is not an endorsement of your position. I simply granted you the right to post your petition.

Do I personally think it's pointless and divisive? Hell yes. I would think the same thing about a similar petition against any candidate. I merely pointed out that at this time such a petition is not against the rules of DU. We are in the middle of a political campaign which is going to be hard-fought.

However, since you have chosen to take advantage of our good nature, I am now locking this thread, and I will intruct the mods to lock any further petitions of this nature. Organizing against a particular candidate is not currently forbidden, but I'm not going to allow you to drag the Admins into this by implying that we are in favor of a particular candidate.

You had your chance, you blew it. Sorry.

[VermontDem2004]

31. The signatures are a hoot!

17. Ronald Reagan Just because I'm dead doesn't mean I can't fight Dean

16. Ahnold Schwarzwnegger Hasta la vista Howard.

15. Ann Coulter Dean and his followers are traitors and should all be tried and hung for treason!

9. Karl Rove Please don't choose Howard Dean, he might actually beat Bush and I've worked too hard making him my puppet for that to happen.

48. Richard Nixon I know McGovern. And Dean, you are no McGovern

45. Bill O'Reilly I deny making wild passionate love to Rupert Murdoch!

35. George Dubya Bush Poppy, I'm a'scared of Meany Deany... don't let him beat me

70. Ralph Nader Howard Dean is stealing my thunder. He's sucking away all my supporters

and many more, are you sure you want to send this to Terry M?

[killbotfactory]

37. Oh no! An internet petition! Dean is doomed!

Oh the humanity...

[unfrigginreal]

38. Why not say what you really mean...Democrats For Bush

You are making an effort to coalesce all anti-Dean sentiment into a coordinated faction. Now, what would this faction do if Dean did get the nomination? Suddenly declare that he's their guy?

This is a slick attempt to divide Democrats and torpedo our chances in the race for the WH in 2004.

Unbelievable that this has been allowed on this board.

[dsc]

39. actually they sound more like Repubicans to me

after all they are trying to rig an election they fear they can not win. Our party doesn't do that.

[Nicholas_J]

56. Actually

They are progressives from the left wing of the democratic party.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

57. IOW:

kick

[KaraokeKarlton]

64. They aren't democrats

You always cite stuff written by the socialist party and other fringe parties in Vermont, through members of those parties. Democrats aren't typically registered socialists.

[KaraokeKarlton]

67. Oh, and you cite Republicans, too

Some of the criticism come straight from the Ethan Allen Institute, whose president is a Republican who Dean beat with 70% of the vote one election. McClaughery has an axe to grind, and is not a progressive.

http://www.dcpoliticalreport.com/1992/VT92.htm

[Nicholas_J]

74. Lets look at:

Dean kept his distance from his party’s liberals during his governorship.

"He seemed to take glee in attacking us at every opportunity and using us as a way to form alliances with more conservative elements," said former state Sen. Cheryl Rivers, a leader of the state Democrats’ liberal wing and former chairwoman of the powerful Senate Finance Committee.

Dean fashioned himself a position in the political center of Vermont politics even as the state has moved steadily to the left...

To the anger of more liberal members of his own party, he insisted that the tax increases be rolled back on schedule and then went on to work for additional tax cuts later in his tenure...

"Certainly the Democratic caucus was never 100 percent behind him and where there were differences, it was around how progressive or how moderate he was," Chard said.

Rivers blames Dean for helping a third political party to flourish in Vermont that many say siphons votes from Democrats. "The Progressive Party gained some momentum during his years as governor because he was so conservative," Rivers said, although she said she still may support Dean for president.

http://premium1.fosters.com/2003/news/may%5F03/may%5F19/news/reg%5Fvt0519a.asp

Many many democrats are offended by the doctors super-conservatism..and I am glad to see the recent articles in which th media are beginnig to bear down on Deans continual flip flopping on positions from Social Security, to Cuba.

Within the next few months you can expect to see daily attacks on Deans record and quotations in the media.

[dsc]

66. Then they need to stop

using Republican tactics. They need to win elections not rig them.

[poskonig]

41. Some of the Kerry supporters are starting to go over the edge.

Come'on. There is no reason to spread this GOP crap here.

The Kerry campaign is totally obsessed with Dr. Dean, which may explain why they are getting stomped by 21 points in New Hampshire.

Team Kerry needs to get back on track. As I have been saying this for weeks, I've been objective and serious about this. I'm usually dismissed, and the Kerry people insist that they should bash because they perceive the Dean people as bashing. As a result, they fall farther and farther behind.

Hopefully they will jettison the Deanis envy and start getting down to work.

[Rose Siding]

44. This isn't "Kerry supporterS"

Gotta remember that very few make such a concerted effort to try to trash Dean.

[Forkboy]

51. There's no way I'd hold Kerry supporters responsible

for Nic...that's not fair to anyone.

[Ripley]

42. You need to get back on your meds.

Looks as tho you are having a psychotic breakdown.

[Nazgul35]

43. The fact that he doesn't have the balls...

to come back and post a response to this shows how much of a coward he is!

He continually pulls this crap by posting threads that he knows will generate flames and never comes back to the thread....I really think this is nothing more than someone who gets a little girl thrill out of seeing his name at the top of multiple threads...

This goes beyond the pail and I would hope that in the future, everyone would treat this poster with the respect he deserves....by ignoring him. He continually posts materials that are selectively edited and come from sources that KKKarl would think twice before using....He is one of the main sources for the Dean supporters ebing soooo sensative due to the continual posting neccessary to knock down his crap....

Thinl about it....who likes to "flood the zone" with some many lies that the opposition can not possibly keep up with discounting them? The hope is that they will stick.....

Our time should be better spent digging up dirt on the Crawford Creature....and this latest hail mary by Nick should be proof positive that he is nothing more than a disruptor trying to undermine our party...

[Nicholas_J]

54. No you remember it was Dean started all of the negative campaigning

THis is the result of his negative campaigning. There are simply many who beleive that Dean is the disruptpr determined to destroy are party. I am one who holds that opnion that Dena is a conservative who has decided to destroy all liberal and progressive politics in America...if not answer these:


1. Why did you support sending Vermont's nuclear waste to the poor,
mostly Hispanic town of Sierra Blanca, Texas, 16 miles from the Mexican
border -- a plan described as "blatant environmental racism" by Paul
Wellstone?

2. Why did the Dean administration increase funding for Vermont's
state colleges by only 7% while you increased funding for prisons by
150%?

3. Why did IBM, the leading polluter in Vermont, receive your
Environmental Achievement Award nine times?

4. What did you mean when you said, "I've had 40 or 45 private
meetings with IBM since I've been governor. And IBM has gotten pretty
much everything they've asked for"?

6. Why did you wait for the courts and legislature to bring about the
civil union bill before you supported it? Why did you sign the bill
in private when you finally did sign it?

7. Why do you oppose the Israeli Labor Party candidate for prime
minister Amram Mitzna's call for unconditional peace talks with the
Palestinians?

8. While you acknowledge that you "haven't condemned Congress for
passing the Patriot Act," Bernie Sanders from your own state of
Vermont is leading efforts in Congress to overturn the Act. Why are
you not supporting Bernie Sanders' efforts and condemning Congress for
its attack on civil liberties?

9. How do you respond to Annette Smith of Vermonters of a Clean
Environment who says: "Dean's attempt to run for president as an
environmentalist is nothing but a fraud. He's destroyed the Agency of
Natural Resources, he's refused to meet with environmentalists while
constantly meeting with developers, and he's made the permitting process
one, big dysfunctional joke. EP under Governor Dean meant Expedite
Permits, not Environmental Protection"?

10. Since you pride yourself on your "fiscal responsibility", why do
you refuse to even consider any decreases in the bloated Pentagon
budget?


Again answer these questions. Dean avoid answering them.

Of couse, if you check the attached links, you will note that the page is being raided by Dean disruptors. Thise who created the site are amused by the arguments amond Dean supporters as to who created the site as noted on the sites comments page:


What is funny is that they cannot decide who is behind this supposed conspiracy. First they thought it was Kucinich, then Kerry, now Lieberman. Some folks have even suggested Rove was behind it.
Fact is, there are a lot of supporters of all 8 other candidates that would rather see anyone other than the demagogic orator Dean. The other fact, is that of all 9 possible candidates, Dean is the one Rove would most like to see nominated. He isn't going to do anything that would help prevent that.

THis comes directly from the site attached to the petition. THey have my sentiments, but not my signature, as I am certain Dean is well on trhe way to self destructing his own campaign

[ProfessorPlum]

63. Jesus, I'm not only drunk now,

I'm totally broke. WTF?

[Nicholas_J]

60. Actually

I have come back, its just that unlike most Dean supporters, I have a life and dont spent it ALL on DU.

[renie408]

46. This is counter productive idiocy.

I am NOT a Dean fan, but is this really helpful? Do you REALLY think this is helping Kerry? Or anybody, for that matter?

[renie408]

47. Hey, guys...

Has anybody gone and read the 'signatures' on this petition?? You might want to reconsider. I mean, Elvis, Joe Lieberman and Alfred P. Neumann have already signed on.

[poskonig]

48. I'll be having knee surgery this week.......

:think:

[molly]

49. That's a HOOT!

[dsc]

50. yeah it is always funny

when people try to rig elections they can not win. I am sure the Gore campaign found it hysterical too. But typical of the Kerry supporters here. No tactic is too base. No tale too bizarre. No name too foul.

[molly]

52. I thought it was a joke - you didn't?

[dsc]

65. The signatures yes

the petition no. I am presuming that the petition itself is real. Many of the signatures clearly aren't.

[gully]

58. Hee hee. Read the signatures!!!

What a total joke!

[PAMod]

59. Where do people find this stuff?

The only funnier thing I've seen is the site to promote a statue for W. in Baghdad.

[polpilot]

68. The Whiners Rally!! Dean has really shook the Bush-lite crowd!!

Dean '04

[Tinoire]

71. Aw C'Mon - I hope you posted this as a joke

I think the Kerry camp has bigger problems than Dean. You are unwittingly pushing the "destroy Dean" meme. After enough of these memes have been pushed, there will only be one candidate left standing. Clark, a DARPA man, is counting on getting enough votes from Independents, Republicans, and Democrats to take him to the White House. Who are you more concerned about? Dean, who's definitely not as socially progressive as Kerry, or a candidate with ties to Homeland Security and who is pushing security from terror?

I'm no fan of Dean but we may have bigger problems. Given a choice between Dean and Homeland Security, I'll take Dean. Between Homeland Security and Kerry, I'll take Kerry even though I am ANGRY about Iraq and the way he, Lieberman and the neo-cons were pushing Clinton to attack Iraq even though the CIA had already said Iraq was no danger to us or to anyone.

Is Dean really your biggest problem? Our biggest problem?
If the answer is no, then please don't tear him down so much that he's not left standing when the Clark makes his surprise announcement and the parade begins. Watch our for the memes...:)

[Nicholas_J]

77. Yes Dean and candidates LIKE Dean

Are the democratic party's biggest problems. Dean is as conservative as most republicans and the LAST thing the party needs is furtther movement to the RIGHT. Denas positions in most areas, at least as seen in his decisions as governor are more of a sell out to republicanism than the DLC.

I didnt make up this petition, I receivened an email about it, and it is indicative of a growing dislike of Dean among a large number of liberal democrats. I agree with everything in it, though I did not sign it. Every one who signs the petition must be a "REGISTERED DEMOCRAT" in order to corret the information here posted that it is being put forth by socialists, the far right.

This is more than enough of a beginning to prove that a Dean nomination will create another 1972 scenario. Many will sit out the election rather than vote for Dean, to let the party know that it cannot ignore substance for popularity. This is what happened in 1972, but it is even worse now, as there was never a petition to keep the party from nominating McCarthy. This petition shows that there is probably going to be even more of a reaction to a Dean nomination than to McCarthy's.