Dean – Truth and Consequences

[JHS]

Is he for real or just another politician that will say anything to get elected? How about that Dean record? Do we really know what’s there? SEE THE ARTICLE IN THE W. POST!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2314-2003Aug29.html

Dean Invites More Scrutiny By Switching Key Stances

Howard Dean, who sells himself as the presidential campaign's straightest shooter, is starting to throw voters some curves.

As he transitions from insurgent to the man to beat in the Democratic primary, Dean is modifying or switching his positions on several political issues. In recent weeks, Dean, the former Vermont governor, has softened his support for lifting the trade embargo on Cuba -- an important issue in voter-rich Florida -- and suggested he might opt out of the public campaign finance system he endorsed weeks earlier.

Dean also has backed off his support for raising the age at which senior citizens can collect their full Social Security benefits, a change that would save the government money by trimming monthly payments to thousands of older Americans. Dean initially denied he ever supported raising the retirement age, but later admitted he did.

. . .

As governor, Dean endorsed raising the retirement age to 70 as a prudent step toward balancing the budget. And this June on NBC's "Meet the Press," Dean again referred to the age at which full Social Security benefits can be collected, saying he "would entertain taking the retirement age to 68." Currently, the age at which one can get full retirement benefits ranges from 65 years and two months to 67 years, depending on when you were born.
But during a candidate debate two months later, Dean denied he ever supported an increase in the retirement age. Now Dean said he misspoke in August and is opposed to raising the retirement age at all. Dean said his campaign has "crunched the numbers" and found better ways to protect the long-term health of Social Security than raising the retirement age.

Dean is also considering becoming the first Democrat ever to opt out of the public campaign finance system, which provides candidates taxpayers' money in exchange for limiting their spending to $45 million during the primary.

In March, . . . Dean said it would be a "huge issue" if any Democrat made such a move because most primary voters "believe in campaign finance reform." At the time, he voiced his strong support for the public system. In the interview Wednesday, Dean said he was talking specifically about Kerry spending his own money, as opposed to cash raised from individual donors. "We are faced with a different situation," he said.

. . .

Last weekend, Dean shifted his position on the trade embargo against Cuba. Dean, who had supported rolling back the embargo to foment human rights improvements, said he has become convinced such a move would be unwise. Cuban Americans, who generally support the embargo, are an important voting bloc in several states, including Florida. Bush won four out of every five Cuban American votes in 2000, but Democrats are hoping to chip away at that support before the election.

. . .

[molly]

1. Someone has this over in LBN - but here is good too

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=89781&mesg_id=89781

[maggrwaggr]

2. Dean - brave enough to admit when he's wrong

that's all I see happening.

People who don't like him are jumping all over this as "proof" that he "lied".

It's silly.

[JHS]

3. How about the record?

Do think he should stick by his record as Governor?

[maggrwaggr]

4. what exactly do you mean by that?

I mean, his record is his record, you can't dispute what the record is.

As far as having the same policies as president that he had as governor, well no of course not. The United States of America is not Vermont.

[renie408]

5. ROFL...

Why don't you guys agree when an anti-Dean person says that?

[Octafish]

8. What IS his record? Dean ordered it SEALED for 10 years.

"Well, there are future political considerations. We didn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor."

— Howard Dean, January 2002

Hear and ready the ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker's explanation:

http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/vpr/news/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=441887

[XanaDUer]

11. Yes, Octafish, that about says it all.

The long seal on records.

[killbotfactory]

12. He performed many abortions and killed a lot of puppies

Dean is Evil!!!
Dean Evil!!!
DEVIL!!!

[renie408]

16. That was funny.

[AP]

6. Bizzaro world. People complain about Edwards's consistent message

saying that they wish he'd stop repeating himself, and praise Dean when he changes his position.

Consistency is GOOD. It lets voters know for whom they're voting. Inconsistency is bad. It confuses voters. Many would rather vote for the devil they know than someone they don't understand one bit. You have to be a defined character for people to vote for you (and you have to hope that that definition is something that's attracts the most voters).

[Nicholas_J]

17. Dean

Craven enough to change what he is stating, if he sees it will not get him elected. Deran did the same when he ran for governor.

HE kept changing stances with democrats, had a lot of republican support, and got into office by making promises, and then breaking them. By the time he last ran, he nearly lost office, and finally decided not tro run for governor agains when the polls showed that ANYONE would beat him.

[w4rma]

7. Duplicate post of this post in this forum (Politics and Campaigns)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=28956

[genius]

9. Good post. It would be nice if the Deanbots had open minds.

I remember after 9-11, all the people who seemed to feel you should only say good things about Bush. To them, the truth was a bad thing. The Dean people are almost identical. The truth is their enemy.

There is a lot more going on with the Dean campaign than a switching of positions. The reason the Republicans are backing Dean is that they know they can bring him down on more than his back and forth positions. But the truth is not something the Dean people want to know about. So the best one can do is to hope they wake up and check what is right at their fingertips before the Democratic Party ends up being taken down with this guy. I used to work on the Dean campaign and I know that the Dean people have access to the truth if they want to look. It doesn't do any good to point things out. They react with defensiveness. Just watch. Rather than going and looking around or admitting what's right before their very eyes, they'll simply attack this post and continue to close their eyes.

[Larkspur]

10. It would be nice if Dean-bashers got the facts instead of spewing gossip

inuendo, and misinformation about Dean.

[Cha]

14. The "truth" is your enemy, genius.

you're so busy calling us the enemy of truth...you need to take a look at yourself, genius.

[Nicholas_J]

18. Yup genius.

Dean suporters are blind to Deans jelly like spine and hi continual ability to keep have No position or values to which he will give his allegiance other than his own ambition.

This article is only the first of dozens if not hundreds designed to keep reminding the public that if Dean can change his position once, twice, three times, there will be nothing to stop him form reversing himself again especially after he gets in office, and no one can stop him. THis is where the DLC will pound Dean into the ground, reminding the public over and over agains how Dean's positions will harm thme if Dean decides to change his mind again, once he is in office. Especially regarding the retirement age.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

13. Goddamn gnats.

[Cha]

15. LOL! Zing!

[KaraokeKarlton]

20. Let's hope he finds a job soon

Ironically, I thought I'd look around to see if he was spreading this crap of his elsewhere online and I inadvertantly stumpled upon his home page. Although he sounds as if he's in his early to mid 20s, he's about 50 years old and appears to be seeking a job. I'm honestly tempted to pass his name on to the Dean campaign in the event they'd be interested in pursuing legal action for the defamation of character we've been seeing here. It'd be one thing if it was honest criticism...but that's not what he's doing.

[Nazgul35]

19. Missing the big picture....

what we have going on is a peasant revolt within the democratic party...and this is what Dean has tapped into. The reason he is achieving success is because he is adopting his message to the many voices that show up on his web blog day in and day out....the Dean campaign is successful because THEY LISTEN to the common folk and seek to bring in people who have long been disenfranchised by the monied elites who have been running the party since 1988....

Read the posts at the web blogs....see what people are complaining about...everyone is tired of Democratic Candidates who spend all of their time telling us that this is the way it should be....Dean listens, learns and adapts to the voices of the COMMON DEMOCRATIC Member....

To a certain extent, this is the attraction of Kucinich and Clark, these candidates get it, they listen to the people, adapt to their wants and needs....many Democrats are tired of the DNC monied interests within the party and are looking for a people's champion...all one need do is look at how Dean is raising cash...and look at the three top mettup candidates to see what's going on....

The reason Dean is not being consistent across issues is PRECISELY BECAUSE HE IS ADAPTING HIS VIEWS TO RESPOND TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPORTING HIS CAMPAIGN...Many have knocked Kucinich's switch on Abortion...but his reasoning was sound...in that he was a voice for his constituents, whom were overwhelmingly anti-abortion, and since he would be president, he would have to change that stance....

As far as I am concerned...the only morality or issue that I want my representatives to adhere to is that they provide the people with the truth, lsiten to the people when they respond, and take leadership positions when times threaten to let emotion rule the day....everything else is just window dressing....

I don't need a candidate who is exactly like me...if I wanted that, i'd run myself....I want someone who is intellegent to recognize what's going on, adapt and help us lead ourselves into a better future....and right now, they only candidates who seem to be getting it are Kucinich, Dean and Clark....

[JHS]

21. More Truth - Dean the Bad Tempered Tax Raiser!

Here's something I saw on another board. It again shows why Dean is the one Rove loves! Here is some more about your RNC posterboy - Dr. Dean!

"Back in July, Debra Orin of the New York Post also noted some discrepancies about Dean:

Critics say Dean can be seen as a tax-and-spend Dem. Making the rounds is the 50-state chart from a USA Today story last month that shows Vermont spending skyrocketed 52 percent in 1997-2002 (when Dean was governor), while population rose just 18 percent.

That puts Vermont pretty close to the top nationally in increased spending even though it's tiny (population 608,827 without big cities or the urban problems many states face). By contrast, New York's spending rose 35 percent while population went up 19 percent.

Rivals also question Dean's temperament, pointing to his 2001 boast that he once vetoed a record 13 bills just because he was mad at state lawmakers."

[KaraokeKarlton]

22. Did NY have a $10 million surplus this year?

Our state politicians, including our current governor attributed Vermont's good fiscal state to the leadership of Dean...who taught Vermont's democrats the benefits of fiscal discipline. He set a standard for all politicians here...and it's thanks to Dean our state isn't bankrupt.

And Dean's vetos were brilliant. That's exactly how you deal with lawmakers who would rather fight and argue about technicalities and try to get more and more of what they want instead of getting to work and getting the job done, minus all the partisan fluff from BOTH sides. It was a very effective tactic because it sent a clear message that if they wanted time to go play and have fun they needed to stop the petty and needless bickering and do their job. Yes, it made some people mad, but that's how he got so much done...he has no patience for nonsense and will utilize his veto power to send a firm message that there will be no such antics under his leadership...and that they will work together to get things done and do it right the first time or they'll have to come back and do it again, from scratch.