Two looks at Howard Dean from Common Dreams As Dean Surges Ahead

[DannyRed]

As Dean Surges Ahead

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0903-14.htm

and

Why I Support Howard Dean

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0903-02.htm

Both articles contain useful information, criticism and praise, skepticism and optimism, idealism and practical realism.

One is from a political reporter whose articles have been quoted by some who have attacked Dean on his record in Vermont.

One is from a progressive playwriter.

I think them an interesting and balanced pair, and they encapsulate many reasons why a progressive or green, or a moderate, or a liberal, or a centrist might consider voting for Dean...

And I think Kerry's statement that Dean was "wrong to oppose the war" will ultimately sink the Kerry campaign for good, which is a shame, because Kerry is a good man with a good record who took some bad advice from political insiders who think that this war is popular.

[Cha]

1. Kick!

:kick:

[Nicholas_J]

2. I was told COmmonDreams was a terrible Neo-COn source by Deanies

WHen I printed this and a few others:

Published on Wednesday, February 26, 2003 by CommonDreams.org
Howard Dean: Hawk in Dove’s Clothing?
by Stephen Zunes

As the first and most prominent Democratic candidate for president to oppose a U.S. invasion of Iraq, the campaign of former Vermont governor Howard Dean hopes to gain the support of peace and human rights activists within the party. Originally planning to focus on his call for universal health care and fiscal responsibility, Dean’s anti-war message has received such an enthusiastic response it has become a major focus of his speeches on the campaign trail.


http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0226-04.htm

Now is it or isnt it an invalid source?

[DannyRed]

3. Ummmm

Common Dreams is a clearinhouse for opinions, editorials, news, and views.

Whoever told you that was mistaken.

[w4rma]

4. Either that or Nic is mistaken about being told that (n/t)

[JohnKleeb]

5. I dunno but I have seen one particularly progressive page

disgarded as like Naderite or whatever. Just my observation I forgot what but I seem to remember something.

[Nicholas_J]

6. No just that

Whatever I post is claimed to come from NEO-CON, OR ROVIAN, or lying, or incorrect or discredited sources.

I have made a few claims that came from even Common Dreeams in whihc a progressive indicated that Dean reinstated the DEeath Penalty in Vermont, but when I discovered this was incorrect, I stated that the citation was incorrect.

If it comes from the Rutland Herald, I am told that this is a right being republican supporting paper. Though if they post something good about Dean then it is an OK source.

Same thing For Counterpunch, Mother Jones and TomPaine.

I've been told by rabid Deanies these sources are all pro Bush Freeper media sources. Often.

This is why I beleive that a great number of Deans supporters are basically politically ignorant, and are simply being worked up by a demogogue who is saying whatever that he must to get elected and as indicated by an article in Counterpunch in which progressive Vermonters discuss Dean:

Howard Dean: the Progressive Anti-War Candidate?
Some Vermonters Give Their Views

I know that a lot of you are going to vote for Dean -- he talks a good game; he can be charismatic and charming. But I'm warning you. This man will tell you what you want to hear, or at least tell you something that has some little kernel of something that you can interpret as support for the things that are important to you. But when the time comes to stand up and lead on the issue, to take on the money interests and backsliders in his own party, that stiff little spine will turn into a slinky.

If you vote for him, it's your job to stand behind him with a poker and keep him headed in the right direction. Don't give him any honeymoon period, either--keep the pressure on from the second you drop that ballot in the box. The minute you relax, he's going to turn right back into what he really is...a privileged, arrogant, middle of the road republican. Put your political energy into getting some truly progressive folks into the House and Senate, and into State legislatures around the country so that there will be more pressure from more directions. We need to get together our sophisticated progressive thinkers to develop policy ideas in every area, so that we're ready with real, well-thought out counter-proposals for the incremental changes a Dean administration might put forth. If you feel you must, support Dean, do--but then go do the work necessary to make real change.

Ron Jacobs, Donna Bister and Marc Estrin comprise the OLD NORTH END RAG collective. The RAG is an agitational community newspaper serving the Old North End of Burlington, Vermont. This neighborhood is a primarily working class section of Vermonts largest city that has a history of political activism


http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs08292003.html

Even today on the BBC. While trying to size up the candidates. the BBC

called Kerry the most liberal, Liberman the most COnservative and Dean the LEFTIST.

Dean has been very good at trying to cover up his conservative credentials.

All Dean supporters state that if people paid attention to what he stated, they would know better. Well Dean tailors his speeches and interviews to suit the auduences. IF the BBC can be fooled, then it is not the BBC's fault, it is Deans for cleverly saying whatever he sees the audience wishes to hear.

[acerbic]

8. Well, that would certainly be the first time

As everyone has seen, he frequently reports what other people are saying and always provides links to the source with the actual original quote.

[Nicholas_J]

7. I know what it is...

I am a liberal progressive myself and KNOW. What common dreams is....
Many Dean supporters Bring in the Dean Defense Forces to attack even democrats and progressives and if they dsont like the presentation of Deans conservative, one might even state, (and many do) his Republican like record. Which a considerably large number of Democrats and Progressive have described Deans record as.

If Dean would run on his record rather than do everything necessary to actually disavow it, I might be able to muster a bit of respect for the guy.

Having been drafted at the same time Dean was, I know the stuff he is shoveling about his deferrement to those too young to remember it or were not even born could create enough methane to power the entire nation for several years.

Many of us who went through the process are offended by his B.S. in that area.


ANd by the fact thyat he carefully

[DannyRed]

9. Nicholas_J

Just get off it already.

You have smeared, quoted out of context, cherry-picked, posted incomplete data and analyses, and distorted so many times in so many ways that any valid criticisms you have to offer (and you DO have many to offer) are immediately dismissed as more of the same.

It is really really unfortunate, because, as I said, you DO have a lot of valid criticisms, a lot of interesting sources, and COULD HAVE provided a decent counterpoint and devil's advocate position that would be and is a valuable resource in the debate about candidates.

It is a shame that you have squandered the value of your criticisms so badly.