There’s a Chill in the Air

[Nicholas_J]

Howard Dean has had a good summer. But the Democrats’ early front runner may be in for a rough fall. A user’s guide to the pitfalls ahead

By Howard Fineman
NEWSWEEK


Sept. 15 issue — The rhetorical attack in the Democratic debate was meticulously planned, supervised by veterans who learned the art of political demolition in the war rooms of the Clinton years...


SEN. JOE LIEBERMAN’S “oppo” researchers, examining Dr. Howard Dean’s record, noticed that he recently had said the United States should trade only with countries that match American standards for protecting workers’ rights, union rights and the environment. It’s a worthy goal, but unrealistic; a federal study found that it would cost the United States $1.2 trillion in lost trade annually. Thus armed, equipped with a preplanned sound bite, Lieberman unloaded last week on a stage in Albuquerque, N.M. “The Bush recession would be followed by the ‘Dean depression!’ ” Joltin’ Joe charged. When Dean answered that he had meant (the less onerous) “international” standards, Lieberman declared victory. “Well, then that’s a reassuring change of position,” he said, in Perry Mason tones. In the “spin room” afterward, Lieberman called Dean a “waffler.”


There were fewer dramatic jabs at Dean than expected, but Lieberman’s was indicative of the state of the nascent Democratic race. Like the night air in his home state of Vermont, the atmosphere is turning a little chilly on the campaign trail for Dean. It will soon get downright frigid. He’s the functional equivalent of a front runner, on track to raise an astounding $15 million in the third quarter of this year, largely due to his success as a Web-based candidate. Historians note that the candidate with the most cash on hand—and the lead in national polls as the primaries start—almost always wins the nomination. Dean likely will have the most money come January. So now his rivals’ aims and hopes are simple enough: to rough him up, and hope he implodes. Here’s a look at the pitfalls, actual and potential, that Dean faces:


http://www.msnbc.com/news/962960.asp?0dm=s18Ck

[CMT]

1. or

Fineman can be as off as he was when he used to dismiss Dean.

[helleborient]

2. Politics as usual...attack the frontrunner

[deutsey]

3. I just knew who the target was going to be in this thread

:eyes:

[Ediacara]

5. ya

you ever notice how NJ only attacks Dean, but never ever ever ever says anything about anything or anyone else, especially his Avatar namesake?

Makes ya wonder....

[Nicholas_J]

6. I would support

Any other candidate.

I have studeid Dean ENTIRE political recortd and know without the slighest doubt that as soon as he gets into office, he forgets about his campaign statements and returns to his ONLY real political agenda.
Cut social programs, favor big business.

I am likely more aware of EVERY aspedt of Deans career than 99.9 percent of his supporters on DU and I am ABSOLUTELY certain that Dean is a glib, craven politician who will tell any lie to get elected.

There is not one artile about him I have not read going back to the day he become Governor at the Death of Richard Snelling. Dean is using the anger of those ignorant of what he really is to get ahead, but will completly betray those from the democratic electorate who supported him and go back to his extremely conservative, executive style, which is nearly indistinguishable from Bush's. He played the anti war card, because it was available, but if it were equally convenient and would have gained more votes, Dean would have been more pro war with Iraq than Wolfowitz.

Deans supporters are being taken for the ride of their lives and if he actually wins, in the end, they will be far more dissappoined with how Dean actually runs the government than any other candidates will be. WE know how dishonest Dean is.

There are far more people who will sit out the election and many Dems who will even vote for Bush if Dean is elected than Deans supporters will ever admit. Ed Koch, one of the most liberal mayors of New York just stated he would not vote for Dean and will vote for Bush.

I know I will not vote for Dean, and I know, through email, that tens of thousands will sit out a Dean run against Bush. Extrapolating from what I have recieved in emails, Dean may have gotten the angry young going for him, but he has angered FAR to many who support the DLC and its candidates to beat Bush.

[helleborient]

7. Wow...you get tens of thousands of email messages?

And know what they say?

How do you have time to post on DU?

[Nicholas_J]

10. Disabled.

Have 24 hours a day doing nothing but research. Have access to lots of NON Internet Databases.

Plus there are MANY Democrats against Dean groups putting together tons of research and sending it to the DLC and other candidates about Deans records.

I was very very happy to note a number of quotes directly in candidates speeches that were hitting Dean that came directly from my intro memos to the campaigns of the candidates. There are literally hundreds of us locating and collating Deans record as governor, his continual attempts to cut medical coverage programs, his attempts to destroy the Vermont environment, and direct interviews with leading Vermont Environmentalists about Dean, as well as interviews directly with citizens who fought Deans attempt to destroy their property with his natural gas pipelines.

I sent this to all of the campaigns:

I’ve become convinced that we have a philosophical difference between the governor, the Republican House and this Senate,” said Senate President Pro Tempore Peter Shumlin, D-Windham.

“The governor and the Republican House want to balance this budget on the backs of our most vulnerable Vermonters. The Senate wants to balance this budget on the backs of the pharmaceutical companies who are charging too much for drugs.”

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/46513.html


It was gratifying to hear it echoed in Kerry's statement:

. And for all of this President’s talk about tax cuts, middle class families have seen their share of the tax burden go up, not down. Some in my party want to balance the budget on the backs of the middle class.

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/pr_2003_0909b.html





I have helped have organized hundred of Vermonters who have lost their businesses due to Dean, Farmers who lost their farms to his pandering to Factory Farms Special interests. They have written many letters to the editor about Deans destruction of small family fams in Vermont to the editors of Iowa Newpapers. I have had numbero of these letters as published sent to me.

Part of his sealed record relates to one "Lucien Breton" and that is the nut I am trying to crack there. If it is hidden, there is something wrong. IF there is something wrong, I WILL find it. If I find it, I will make it a media event.

My entire focus is to do everything possible to keep this craven, dishonest, trecherus politician out of office. Dean has betrayed the party, was largely responsible for the losses of many state Governorships in 2002(he was in Charge of Recruiting Gubernatorial opposition for the DLC and DNC and let the job suffer becasue of his own presidential ambitions)

[helleborient]

15. This is one problem in American politics...

Otherwise possibly useful minds working for good that develop a vendetta against individuals and do nothing but destroy.

You would have been great working on Starr's team against Clinton. I thought Democrats tended to be above such personal vendetta work...I actually believe Bill Clinton's comment that campaigns based on hope defeat campaigns based on fear anyday.

You are part of the campaign of fear, Nic, right out of the Bush administration playbook.

If the Democrats cannot wage a campaign primarily based on hope...that is the only reason I would possibly stay home and not vote. Cynicism and ugliness are just that...cynical and ugly.

So...did Howard Dean cause 9/11? Is he best friends with Osama bin Laden? What else have you dug up lately?

[Nicholas_J]

18. So would Dean have

Dean has done much to destroy the democratic party wherever he has been. In Vermont, massive losses to progressives due to his conservatism. In the present with his attacks on the party, the DLC and other Democrats.


Dean is a destructive influence, concerned only with his own ambition to power.

Remember who pointed Repukes in Clintons Direction...

Joe Trippi

[helleborient]

20. Just a question re:Nick and John Kerry's supporters....

As I am tired, and I would think other Dean supporters are, too, of being tagged with the negativeness of Dean supporters from this past spring and summer, I just wanted to ask a question.

Are John Kerry's supporters to be held responsible for Nick's baseless accusations? His exaggerations that a portion of DU'ers will swing the November 2004 elections?

To me...I would think it is insane to attack Kerry supporters in general for what Nick says. Why is it ok to attack Dean supporters in general for what some others say?

[LuminousX]

21. Excellent Point

nt

[Nicholas_J]

28. None of my accusations are baseless

Everything I have pointed out about Deans record as governor are COMPLETELY valid, as reported in quotes from people who had to Deal with Dean as governor.

This is a simple attempt by Dean suppoorters to prevent actual information about Dean from being seen or accepted:

Again:


Medicaid cuts will affect thousands of Vermonters
January 23, 2002

By DAVID MACE

Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — Tens of thousands of Vermonters would see their state health care benefits rolled back or cut off completely under Gov. Howard Dean’s proposed budget, which seeks to wring $16.5 million in savings from Medicaid.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/41169.html

HOWARD DEAN DID CUT THE BUDGET AND CUTS TO HEALTH CARECWERE ENORMOUS PARTS OF THE CUTS...



Progressives call for higher taxes for rich
January 25, 2002

By JACK HOFFMAN

Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — Vermont Progressives renewed their call Thursday for higher taxes on the wealthy in order to avoid some of the budget cuts that Gov. Howard Dean outlined earlier this week.

The Progressives, with support of a couple dozen Democrats and one Republican, proposed two new income tax surcharges. Taxes would go up 12.5 percent on taxable income between $43,000 and $158,000. On taxable income above $158,000, taxes would be increased 25 percent....

The Progressives said their proposal was designed to mirror the surcharges adopted during that last budget crisis, but they have not proposed an expiration date for the new surcharges.

Dean reiterated his opposition to raising the income tax shortly after the Progressives unveiled their tax plan. Dean contends Vermont’s marginal income tax rate — that is, the top rate paid by those in the highest income brackets — already is too high.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/41293.html

HOWARD DEAN WAS OFFERED AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE CUTS<BUT STATED THE RICH WERE ALREADY TAXED TOO HIGHLY.


Senate adds money to budget, angers Dean
May 9, 2002

By ROSS SNEYD The Associated Press

MONTPELIER — Senators passed a 2003 state budget Wednesday that the governor made clear he would veto if it ever reached his desk...


Even the governor’s closest allies in the Senate ignored him. Sen. Nancy Chard, D-Windham, recommended restoring $440,000 to one of the pharmaceutical assistance programs and the Senate voted 22-7 to go along with her.

“I’ve become convinced that we have a philosophical difference between the governor, the Republican House and this Senate,” said Senate President Pro Tempore Peter Shumlin, D-Windham.

“The governor and the Republican House want to balance this budget on the backs of our most vulnerable Vermonters. The Senate wants to balance this budget on the backs of the pharmaceutical companies who are charging too much for drugs.”

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/46513.html

DEAN THREATENED TO VETO RESTOTARION OF THESE PROGRAMS BY THE SENATE.


And in the end, even with all of these restorations, the Budget of Vermont, accoring to those who PRAISE Dean was left with a ten million dollar surplus....

All this means is that Deans cuts were totally unnecesary, and his reasoning for adding that money to the budget were totally FISCALLY errorneous.

This is they type of stuff that you claim is bashing, and is "BASELESS" but have NO answers for.

[acerbic]

29. ...they are only "misinterpretations".

:eyes:

[Rose Siding]

39. This was rebutted yesterday,

(for anyone who would mistakenly give it any credence)

[acerbic]

22. "Remember"?

Remember who pointed Repukes in Clintons Direction...

Joe Trippi

What kind of mushrooms would one have have to ingest or smoke to "remember" that?

[Mass_Liberal]

31. The DLC attacked dean, not the other way around

one could call it almost, pre-emptive

[Rose Siding]

38. Organized opposition

Now *that* sounds honest. If the Bush tax cuts were repealed, who would be hurt the most? Just think how the aristocracy fought tooth and nail for those cuts, against the greater public interest.

"Craven, dishonest, treAcherous"? Well, good luck with that!

[LuminousX]

9. And Yet

Vermont kept electing Governor. And furthermore, he is the current frontrunner... so those tens of thousands (?) of people certainly aren't helping any other candidate at the moment.

[dsc]

11. No you haven't

and you yourself said as much in the ask the administrators forum. You, in response to a suggestion I had that people posting threads attacking other candidates actually have links to back them up said that "Vermont's newspapers don't go back far enough online" I know you don't live in Vermont so you can't have studied his complete record.

[Ediacara]

12. yet

still you haven't actually said a word of support for anyone else, AND you go on to bash Dean with "secret knowlege" because you're some world expert on the man.

LOL

Nick, you're a joke....

[LuminousX]

14. Original Threads

were pro-Kerry. And then N_J threads turned just vile against Dean. It is an alarming ratio.

[indigo32]

23. Nic

truth or lie, that is just really sad....honestly I pity you. If you're so concerned about Howard Dean... then convince me to vote for another candidate (maybe the one on your avatar)... your only pissing me off trying to convince me to vote against Howard Dean. And frankly I don't believe A SINGLE WORD of what your a saying about these tens of thousands of Dems who will sit this one out. You're gonna have to back that one up with some real proof.

[Ediacara]

24. nick? proof?

HA!

Don't hold your breath....

[Nicholas_J]

33. Even most polls have this info:

Democratic Presidential Primary
(Among Democrats)
Kerry 17%
Lieberman 16
Dean 14
Gephardt 6
Edwards 4
Braun 3
Graham 3
Kucinich 2
Sharpton 2
(Else/Other) 7
(Not sure) 24
(Would not vote) 2


Almost all Do. all you need to do is chech the polls, and compare to years past, and then compare to polls later on as the nominatrion gets nearer. Watch the polls and see what happens if Dean gets the nomination. See if that figure rises or falls.

[dsc]

34. so you are offering

not realtime proof but some sort of goofy idea of future proof.

[indigo32]

37. what figure... the would not vote?

WTF are you talking about... you give me some uncited poll, with no information as to what it's supposed to represent and thats supposed to be proof that tens of thousands of people are gonna sit the election out because of Dean. LOL.

[deutsey]

8. Yeah, it's weird

I mean, I have my problems with other candidates (especially Lieberman), but I just have more important things to do with my life than to sit here on DU and post negative thread after negative thread about any of them.

Plus, I keep in mind that I may have to put my support behind one of these other candidates if they get the nomination. None of them, except Lieberman (that's my personal feeling, not a swipe at Lieberman), are really so awful that I'd have a problem voting for them.

When I'm not working my dayjob, I'm out in the community working for my candidate. If he loses the nomination, I'll be disappointed, but at least I'll know I did my best to build up his campaign, instead of putting so much energy in tearing down other campaigns.

[asjr]

4. chill

Howard Fineman has been on my not read list for ages. He speaks with forked tongue. I think he is scared to death Dean will emerge as the nominee because he will win. None of those Repubs get it. Dean is a straight-talker with none of the wishy-washy talk that Repubs are so good at doing. The first time I heard Dean speak I knew he was the one. I like Clark and I like Dean. Oh, boy, together they could really turn this country around. Those that are so afraid of Dean's "non-experience" with foreign policy (as if Shrub had any at all) can remain mute. That's another talking point about Dean. He has as much and more than the present pResident.

[w4rma]

13. Nic, you do realize that Fineman took shots at the whole Democratic field

in this article? This is a blatantly anti-Democratic (big-"D") article, not just an anti-Dean article. Note, MWO named Fineman as media whore of the year.
http://www.mediawhoresonline.com/roster.htm

[paulk]

16. I was going to say the same thing

Fineman is a whore. He's hardly a credible source. And I'm not even a Dean supporter. :)

[killbotfactory]

17. Has Nic ever considered the source?

Not from what I've seen.

[Mairead]

36. He usually seems to, as far as I can tell

You might not like what's being said, but the sources Nic picks are usually credible ones. Not always, but usually.

[dsc]

43. take a look at MWO

tell me how credible Fineman is. Go ahead.

[Mairead]

44. I'm sorry, in what way does that negate what I said?

[blm]

45. Fineman helped build Dean up to keep Kerry down, now

he'll help Bush in keeping ALL the Dems down.

[KaraokeKarlton]

19. Dean is hoping his rivals attack

The more pressure he's under, the better he gets. Just ask Ruth Dwyer and the "Take Back Vermont" crowd. If they don't attack him, they look weak and he won't be stopped. If they do attack him, it only energizes him and his supporters even more and he will work even harder and become stronger. Either way he wins and the others fail in stopping him. It's going to be very fun to watch.

[Nicholas_J]

25. What won for Dean in the Ruth Dwyer attacks

Was that he dropped out of the Clean Money fund and took millions from the party, approved by the DLC.

Dean nearly lost that election, as he only came out with barely 50 percent of the votes.

Had Dean not used scare tactics with gays, he would not have gotten the 50 percent of the vote the state requires, and the Legislature would have decided by secret ballot:

Dean did this in an OITM interview:

There are a number of Democrats and a number of Catholics who I have lost the support of, and I need to get that support back. The biggest problem for me (in November) is (Progressive) Anthony (Pollina). Anthony is going to take votes away from me and he’s not going to take any votes away from (Republican) Ruth (Dwyer). So actually the better he does, the more likely it is that Ruth Dwyer is going to be Governor.

OITM: Do you plan to attend Vermont’s Gay Pride celebration on June 17?

Dean: I’ve never attended Gay Pride because it always coincides with a big soccer tournament that my kids are in. They always invite me, and I always say no because it is always the day of the Tom Lawson tournament.

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jun2000/news06_dean%20.htm

And a letter to the editor in the same journal accuses Dena of using scare tactics to get gays to vote for him, rather than tha candidates most gays preferred, Anthony Pollina:

Dean support off base
I am writing to express my deep disappointment in the recent fundraising letter from Vermonters for Civil Unions, Inc. effectively endorsing Governor Howard Dean in his bid for reelection. Their call to make qualifying contributions to Dean’s campaign smacks of pandering and a desire to maintain the privilege of the few rather then seek justice for all...


Governor Dean signed the bill because he knew that he had no choice – he was locked in because he said on day one that he did not support gay marriage but did support domestic partnerships. If Dean could have avoided this issue, he would have. Let us not kid ourselves.

If the people running Vermonters for Civil Unions want to pander to Governor Dean so they can retain access to the “man in charge,” so be it. But I will not support this travesty – I will work to smash the patriarchy and the privilege that goes with it. Then, and only then, will all people live in honor and dignity.

Governor Dean has proven that he’ll only support us when he’s trapped or it’s convenient. For example, his recent interview with OITM where he virtually begged the queer community to support him over Anthony Pollina is simple, pathetic fear-mongering. He feels trapped and he comes to us for help. It’s truly depressing to see the privileged elites of the GLBT community and the privileged elites of the Democratic Party falling all over themselves in an effort to suck up to one another. The Governor should be ashamed of himself for attempting to scare queer folk and progressives into voting for him.

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jul2000/letters.htm

As a result, Dean barely won, just getting the required fifty percent by a few hundred votes. It was simply the worse showing he ever had, and it required Dean to beg the DLC to give him toms of money as it appeard that Dean was going to lose.



Dean drew support from about three in 10 civil union opponents. Among them, he did his best with voters who chose health care, education or the economy and jobs as their top issues, picking up about a third of each group.

Progressive gubernatorial candidate Anthony Pollina - who some Democrats feared could pull enough votes from Dean to throw the race to Republican Ruth Dwyer, was polling in the high single digits. His support appeared to be smaller than the gap between Dean and Dwyer.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/elec_night/exit.html

Pollina was barely pulling six percent votes the month before the election, but took ten percent in the election.

What we're seeing here is the beginning of a very, very successful Progressive Party," he said.


Despite being outspent by his major party opponents, Pollina said he was able to frame issues that resonated with voters.


"I was the candidate who they said won the debates. I was the candidate who stuck to the issues," he said. "I was the candidate who changed people's minds."


Polls throughout the campaign showed Pollina, a former lobbyist with the Vermont Public Interest Research Group, likely to garner 6 percent of the vote.


As preliminary results showed his returns nudging 10 percent, Pollina said a double-digit total would be a victory for a new third party in a three-way race, particularly when many of his potential liberal Democratic supporters were worried about Dwyer.


http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/elec_night/prog.html

Pollina pulled far more votes from Dean than anyone imagined possible.

If Dean did not have a large bloc of REPUBLICANS supporting him, Dean would have lost his last election.

[dsc]

30. back up your contention

that "most gays supported Polina". Yes Nick I will insist on a real live link to back up a real live charge. Fancy that.

[Nicholas_J]

26. Vermont articles have indicated

That the more he is under stress, the more he tends to make errors and mis-statements and to even lie as he did when Kucinich cornered him on Social Security...thats doing well under pressure?

[Mass_Liberal]

27. Lieberman's attacks always fail miserably

In every debate that he has attacked Dean, he has been either booed, or muttered at. Whenever dean replies in a level-headed manner, he gets thunderous applause. Lieberman's attacks will not get him anywhere. Quite the opposite in fact.

[DemBones DemBones]

40. All that proves is that Dean has had loud supporters at each

debate. It's not the entire audience booing Lieberman when he "attacks" Dean, nor the entire audience giving Dean "thunderous applause." When just one portion of the audience goes in for exaggerated applause or booing, it looks sophomoric.

[polpilot]

32. A chill in the air?? You must be downwind from the Kerry camp.

Dean '04...Hot and gettin' hotter

[Mairead]

35. "Dean said the US should only trade with countries that match..."

The problem is that Dean is right and Lieberman dead wrong. And it's not 'unrealistic' except to those for whom 'unrealistic' is a codeword for 'it will cut into my profits more than I'll allow'.

Dean was right: we should hold other countries' feet to the fire.

And we should hold the US's to the fire in return. That way, the only ones who will be 'hurt' are the guys doing the exploiting.

As to the $1.2T in 'lost trade', it's really amazing how the End Of Civilization As We Know It, predicted every time someone suggests giving working people a break, never actually materialises. I have no doubt that any 'lost trade' would quickly be found again.

Dean is right.

[DemBones DemBones]

41. Yes, Dean is right when he says other countries should be held to

higher standards for workers' rights and environmental protections if we are to trade with them.

Dennis would just do away with NAFTA and WTO and start over, a way I believe would be more certain to achieve results than just tinkering with NAFTA and the WTO. But I'm glad Dean is coming out for fair trade, having been a supporter of "free" trade in the past.

[Mairead]

42. Agreed on the doing-away, DB. That's the right move

When I think of the fact that a secret, unelected triumvirate in the WTO can override democratic laws anywhere in the world to the benefit of wealthy elites...my blood runs cold.