John Kerry Statement on Howard Dean's Comments on Hamas "Soldiers"

[flpoljunkie]

John Kerry Statement on Howard Dean’s Comments on Hamas “Soldiers”


Presidential candidate John Kerry said, “In the wake of Howard Dean’s statements last week on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, many Democrats wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and dismissed his comments as the flippant remarks of an inexperienced politician.

“But in going out of his way to term members of Hamas as “soldiers,” Governor Dean insults the memory of every innocent man, woman, and child killed by these suicidal murderers.  Hamas militants are not soldiers in a war – they are terrorists who need to be stopped.

“We live in a dangerous world and in anAmerica at war.  One remark like this from the lips of a President would send the peace process into a tail spin and endanger innocent lives.  George Bush has shown that the Presidency is no place for on the job training – now Howard Dean has proved it.”


HOWARD DEAN ONISRAEL


CNN’S WOLF BLITZER REPORTS


9/10/03


Wold Blitzer: LET'S GO THROUGH SOME SPECIFICS TO FLESH IT OUT. ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS. SHOULD THEY DISMANTLE THEM?


Howard Dean: I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE LEFT UP TO THE NEGOTIATION BETWEEN THE PARTIES. EVERYBODY, INCLUDING PRIME MINISTER SHARON, HAS SAID THERE WILL BE A DISMANTLING OF SOME OF THE SETTLEMENTS. THE QUESTION WILL BE HOW MANY. THE UNITED STATES NEEDS TO PLAY THE ROLE OF BRINGING BOTH PARTIES TOGETHER TO SHE CAN NEGOTIATE THAT.


Wolf Blitzer: WHAT ABOUT TARGET THE KILLINGS, ASSASSINATIONS OF HAMAS MILITANTS?

Howard Dean: I THINK NO ONE LIKES TO SEE VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND. THAT'S WHY THE UNITED STATES IS INVOLVED. I WILL SAY, HOWEVER, THERE IS A WAR GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND MEMBERS OF HAMAS ARE SOLDIERS IN THAT WAR, AND, THEREFORE, IT SEEMS TO ME, THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE CASUALTIES IFTHEY ARE GOING TO MAKE WAR.

 

[dave29]

1. Umm, even Wolf didn't refer to them as terrorists

This is getting a little nit-picky I think

[Prodemsouth]

6. I Don't. If Dean lacks this kind of experience, he needs to get out now.

You can bet the Republicans will use this if he is the nom. He pulls one of the most divisive issue among Democrats and Americans, near Sept. 11th anniv. His remarks and flip flops on even hand in the middle east. This has not been Howards' week to say the least.

[liberalnurse]

2. Kerry is a war monger....

The only way this conflict is going to get resolved or at least minimized is through negotiations. George Mitchell said so today on CNN.

[blm]

7. Watching your language carefully on the MIdeast

while promoting peaceful solutions is better than going to war for words you carelessly spoke.

[clar]

39. So I'm running around

calling everybody on their hyperbole, and even though I lean towards Dean, I can't countenance somebody calling Kerry a war monger. He's not, and it's inflammatory to suggest that he is.

[renie408]

89. Thanks

[sandnsea]

3. Backing out slowly...

[xchrom]

4. the war started in 1948

and all war is hell -- we kill folks at a wedding party, take the limbs off little boys...
killing people is the problem and we need to scrap what we've done up til now and find a new and more productve way.

[HereSince1628]

5. Yes and the phrase "War on Terror" does the same thing.

How many of the Dem candidates have voiced the need to get back to the War on Terror?

In this case War isn't a hyperbole, the nation is formally in a state of emergency. Wars are fought against armies of SOLDIERS!

Oops. Ah, Mr. Kerry, better go back to the staff and have them rework that meme.

[dave29]

8. "Inexperienced politician"

as in unpracticed in the art of voting one way and pretending you voted the other?

[dean4america]

9. this is bullshit

the LA Times, the New Republic, and an Israeli PEACE organization have all, in the past, referred to Hamas as "soldiers." Even Al Quada operatives have been referred to as "soldiers for al quada"

when the F* is this party going to get its collective head out of its ass and quit these bullshit semantic arguments, cos that really all they are doing. Same thing with "even-handed" - gd semantics.

[Larkspur]

10. Do not judge, Kerry, unless you be judged.

The United States, thanks to Bush and Kerry, is a terrorist state.

We illegally invaded Iraq, who was not an imminent threat to the US or to anyone in the region. That makes us a terrorist state.

Along with Bush, Lieberman & Co., Kerry's hands are stained with the blood of innocent Iraqis and American soldiers, who were used as pawns in Bush's & the pro-war Dems political games.

Kerry has no moral authority to chastise Dean over his remarks about Hamas.

[liberalnurse]

15. Well said.

Kerry appears to want to CYA. Defocusing his shortcommings onto Dean will not work. His record shows he supported the invasion of Iraq.

The country was active with protesting....He did not listen to the people. He chose poorly.

[LuminousX]

11. Nuanced BS

Soldiers, militants, combatants, terrorists, freedom fighters, contras, ....

STFU, if this is all Kerry has to say on the issue he is truly lost.

[virtualobserver]

27. more political posturing from Kerry....

Kerry proves conclusively that we cannot choose another nominee who is fluent in Washingtonese.

[valniel]

44. Clueless as to what the difference is

between “Soldiers, militants, combatants, terrorists, freedom fighters, contras” is.

[sandnsea]

12. Fine, Hamas are soldiers

So Israel now has full authority to use its soldiers to go into Palestine and take them out. It's war.

[sandnsea]

13. Soldiers target malls, busses, the WTC??

No, they don't. If those al qaeda terrorists had targeted D.C. entirely, I'd could content they were soldiers. They didn't. They target innocent civilians. That is not a soldier.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

14. .

[Rose Siding]

16. Manipulation of code words from a beltway insider?

If ONLY Dean had said "homicide bombers"

Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, -J Kerry

[babzilla]

20. great minds party-line

now get out of my head. ;)

[babzilla]

17. suicidal murderers?

C'mon Kerry get with the program, have you learned nothing from Pelosi's letter?

Everyone thats anyone knows that Hamas members are homicidal murderers. But in going out of his way to term members of Hamas as “suicidal murderers” Senator Kerry insults the memory of every innocent man, woman, and child killed by these homicidal murderers.

Watch out Kerry, god forbid someone might call you even-handed, then you'll really be in trouble on the hill.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. "Suicidal murderers?"

Is that an anti-choice position? :shrug:

Admittedly confused.

[Vikingking66]

18. this is so stupid

It was an analogy!

i.e-
There is a war going on in Israel.
Hamas members are soldiers on one side.
Hamas members will be casualties if they continue to fight.

Dean was hardly going out of his way to call them soldiers,
and besides there isn't much of a difference between Blitzer's
"militants" and soldiers.

One of the peculiar things about political rhetoric
on the Israel-Palestinian conflict is the question
of who is a terrorist and who is a soldier. Before
the declaration of independence, Israel's "army" were
illegal paramilitary organizations - Haganah, Palmach, the Irgun.
The British considered them terrorists, but they considered
themselves soldiers. Now, they are regarded as soldiers in
the history books and so forth.

It's really difficult to find good guys and bad guys
in warfare of any kind. Hamas blows up busses, but it
also distributes food. They attack Israeli soldiers,
which is considered legitimate, they also bomb barmitzvahs.
Coming down on Dean just because he said that they are
going to get killed if they fight seems to be a bit
of a deliberate overreaction on Kerry's part.

[Rose Siding]

19. It's intentional obfuscation

-a desperate grasp at exploiting the anger and fear the Bush admin has nurtured. I guess he's finding it hard to get attention any other way.

[genius]

21. It just means that Dean is still flip-flopping on this issue.

Personally, I think the Israeli government is mostly responsible for the mess over there. If they would stop intentionally killing people, the suicide bombings would stop. The Palestinians are grieving over the actions of the Israeli government and their reactions are not peaceful or rational. But that is how people react when they feel they are under attack. We need to work to stop both sides from engaging in terrorist actions.

[Rose Siding]

22. Is there a charge

of "flop flop" I'm not seeing in that statement? I'm only noticing the "be afraid of terrorists" manipulation Kerry is using.

[w4rma]

24. You sure don't sound like a Kucinich supporter. This is an indirect

attack on Kucinich also.

[genius]

26. This was a comment about Dean, not Kucinich

It was also an expression of concern over the need to look at both sides of the Israeli-Palistinian conflict. Try taking some reading lessons.

[w4rma]

30. Kucinich's position is to the left of Dean on this.

I stand by my argument that this is also an attack on Kucinich (and other Democrats).

Dean's position is similar to Clinton's position on I/P.

[genius]

31. My comment was about Dean flip-flopping. I agree with Kucinich

on this issue.

[w4rma]

32. There is no Dean flip-flop. And if you agree with Kucinich then Kerry just

attacked your position.

Dean's position on I/P is equivalent to President Bill Clinton's position.

[Rose Siding]

35. I'm not sure you understand the term

It means changing positions, whether for valid reasons or not. But here, playing on the public's fear and anger, Kerry isn't saying Dean did that.

If you think that's what he's saying, please explain.

[clar]

40. You are

a pretzel.

[babzilla]

25. Kerry reminds us: Loose lips sink ships

“We live in a dangerous world and in an America at war. One remark like this from the lips of a President would send the peace process into a tail spin and endanger innocent lives."

[w4rma]

28. Yup. Maybe Kerry should quit trying to incite I/P hatred. (n/t)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

29. Like "suicidal murderer?"

Or does it need to be looser to be more sinkier?

[babzilla]

34. how many times do I have to tell you?

The term suicidal murderer helps the peace process because it raises all boats in the war against terrorism.

You should know by now that even-handedness sends the peace process into a tailspin.



Wolf Blitzer: WHAT ABOUT TARGET THE KILLINGS, ASSASSINATIONS OF HAMAS MILITANTS?

Howard Dean: I THINK NO ONE LIKES TO SEE VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND. THAT'S WHY THE UNITED STATES IS INVOLVED. I WILL SAY, HOWEVER, THERE IS A WAR GOING ON IN THE MIDDLE EAST, AND MEMBERS OF HAMAS ARE SOLDIERS IN THAT WAR, AND, THEREFORE, IT SEEMS TO ME, THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE CASUALTIES IF THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE WAR.

[Nazgul35]

33. i'm not getting this nonsense...

"George Bush has shown that the Presidency is no place for on the job training – now Howard Dean has proved it.”

So being a grunt on a small boat makes you a good comander in chief? If we are looking for that kind of experience dear Senator, I can think of another potential candidate who much better meets the standards you set out....should I expect Kerry to support Clark when he announces?

And I am really hoping that the reporter didn't give Kerry the full quote of what Dean said, cause if he did hear the whole quote, than I am afraid that was a really assinine statement on the part of the senator and all the crap about Dean being devisive to the party is misplaced....seems desperation breeds stupidity....

[Rose Siding]

36. This is a formal press release.

He would have has all the information before he chose to distort it this way.

[DrFunkenstein]

38. Kerry Has Been On The Foreign Policy Committee Since 1985

Including being the head of the Subcommittee on Terrorism, Narcotics, and International Operations. His historic investigations led the US to understand how terrorists funnel money, and he even wrote a book on the subject.

<>

Kerry has 18 years of foreign policy experience under his belt, including at least three unprecedented investigations.

[DrFunkenstein]

37. Hoo Wee, Do I See Some Nervous Dean Supporters!

Everybody here knows that Sharon has Dean in his pocket(book), and that Dean isn't saying anything in order to appease his Leftist base, who can't stand the Likud Party and AIPAC.

We also know that this issue has nothing to do with policy (see above), and everything to do with spin. But, as Dean blithely said about I/P in his Foreign Policy speech at Drake, "appearances matter." Remember when Bush mispoke and sent the Asian markets into a tailspin? Not very Presidential, in my book.

We are beginning to see the cracks in Dean's "straight-talking" pose, on two counts. One, he is starting to flip-flop (I mean, "evolve") all over the place whenever it is most convenient. Two, he who lives by the sharpened tongue shall die by the sharpened tongue. Dean is not used to the national spotlight, and now that it has finally caught up to him, he will wither like a hothouse flower.

Nice try on the "suicidal murderers" schtick. First of all, "homicidal murderers" is redundant and stupid. "Suicidal murderers" is accurate.

After the Bill Weld contest, Kerry is a veteran of national level politics and knows the game. For example, he knows that Dems want to hear that Bush DEFINITELY misled us on the WMDs, but he's knows that is a stupid position to take. Dean knew that, too - at least he did on Meet The Press.

The general elections are going to be brutal, and if I wanted to register an angry protest vote with no chance of winning, I would vote for Nader. You need to be a chessmaster planning ten moves ahead. Checkers just isn't going to cut it.

[poskonig]

41. Compared to Kerry's fuzzy nuancing, *everything* is flipflopping.

Dean's positions are very clear, and that is why he is winning.

[w4rma]

42. Lieberman: "I thought that John Kerry's statement…don't need a waffler…"

Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-CT): "I thought that John Kerry's statement in his announcement address -- that he voted for the resolution just to threaten Saddam Hussein -- was unbelievable. It was clearly an authorization for President Bush to use force against Saddam. ... I don't get it. He's been criticizing Howard Dean for lacking experience to lead America in the world today. It's true. It's not the best time to put a rookie in charge of our country's future. It hasn't been a good time to have a cowboy in charge of our future, but we also don't need a waffler in charge of our country's future." (Glen Johnson And Anne E. Kornblut, “Democrats Rip Bush In 8-Way Debate,” The Boston Globe, 9/5/03)
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/05/democrats_rip_bush_in_8_way_debate/

[DrFunkenstein]

67. Clinton on the Threat of Force

"The credible threat to use force and, when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's WMD program, curtail his aggression and prevent another Gulf War."

-Bill Clinton Dec. 16, 1998

[RogueTrooper]

79. DrF

This "Dean is in the pocket of Sharon" seems to be a favorite comment of yours.

May I as you a question?

If Dean is "in the pocket" of Sharon why did he not back the recent War in Iraq? Both Sharon and AIPAC supported the war, afterall. As did you man, who, I believe, recently said that one of the reasons he voted for military action was because "Saddam had shot 36 missles at Israel".

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

88. 12 years ago.

Unbelievable.

[valniel]

43. This is very sad

To label members of Hamas soldiers, show a basic lack of understanding, of what a soldier is. Anybody aspiring to be the Commander in Chief of US Forces should know the difference. To condone such a statement is just adding insult to injury.

[sandnsea]

45. Well thank god

I was beginning to think my head had spun off into an alternate universe.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

46. Yes, it is

Sad that this has become an issue. Read what Dean said. He was not equating Hamas with US soldiers, or glorifying them in any way. They are fighters in their war against Israel, period.

This hardly justified a press release from Kerry. How disappointing.

<Edit: oops, meant to type "press release">

[valniel]

48. Just equating Hamas with soldiers show lack of understanding

[RevolutionStartsNow]

51. The lack of understanding

is not Dean's, in my opinion...

Members of Al Qaeda are also often called soldiers, as in:
"Iran turns al-Qaeda soldiers over to Saudi Arabia"
http://www.cbc.ca/storyview/CBC/2002/08/11/iran_saudi020811

and:
"A Gulf television station reported that al-Qaeda soldiers had seized the three Americans and two Afghan guides..."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/30/wsold30.xml

and:
"As American forces blasted mountain hideouts in the Tora Bora region of eastern Afghanistan in December 2001, hundreds of Al Qaeda soldiers hastily fled..."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/search/journey/


What the hell is the difference? Do these news outlets show a lack of understanding?

[sandnsea]

53. By a President?

By any western leader in the world? By Kofi Anna? By any Congressional member?

Or, in any context not specifically related to combat in a specific military operation?

Terrorists target civilians.

[DrFunkenstein]

69. Open Warfare Vs. Targeting Civilians

I'm pretty sure that the Geneva Conventions covers this one.

[sandnsea]

49. Calling them soldiers legitimizes them

It's a dreadful mistake in so many ways. I've already gone over so I won't do it again.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

52. Well do it once more...

just for fun.

Al Qaeda members are often called soldiers (see my post above). What is the difference?

[sandnsea]

54. Already responded

And no I won't repeat it again, I'm seriously getting pissed at people who are intentionally being obtuse. Let's have the UN negotiate even-handedly between al qaeda and the US and maybe give al qaeda Texas and let's honor the brave soldiers who blew up 3,000 people on 9/11. That's what Howard Dean just said to Israel, yes it is.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

55. Huh?

Unintelligible. But whatever.

Dean never said "Brave" or "honor" or anything remotely like that. The use of the word "Soliders" is not an implication that they are either brave or honorable. As witnessed in the repeated use of the term to describe members of Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations.

Who's being obtuse?

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/viewpoints/articles/0908dean0907.html

(And I don't think Howard Dean wants to give Texas to Al Qaeda, just a former Texas Governor...)

[sandnsea]

59. Sarcasm

I'm sure you get it.

And yes, to the Israeli's using the term 'soldiers of Hamas', instead of terrorists, is exactly like describing the 9/11 terrorists as brave soldiers. Maybe some people have so little respect for the military that they just can't see why it would be offensive, I don't know.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

63. The sarcasm was obvious, but

the message was fairly unintelligible. But I get your point now. Dean using the term "soldiers" when discussing the I/P issue is like Dean calling the 9/11 terrorists "brave soldiers." Gotcha.

<Edit: spelling of unintelligible. LOL.>

[sandnsea]

65. Thank you

I don't actually don't think it's quite that terrible, I was trying to thunk it in to something people could relate to. But I can't understand why people don't get why a Presidential candidate can't make mistakes like this. We crucify Bush over alot less. And even though he's not my candidate, I want him to win if he gets elected. I might not survive 4 more years of Bush.

On second read, I guess not. Oh well. Let him stumble along till he trips one too many times and can't get up again.

[Duder]

47. Will John be releasing a statement...

...critical of the Los Angeles Times?


Three Israeli Soldiers Die in Foiled Raid Against Hamas Soldiers May Have Been Killed Accidentally by Comrades; Palestinian Authority Leaders Condemn Planned Seizure


http://www-tech.mit.edu/V120/N36/Israli_soldiers.36w.html

[sandnsea]

50. The writer isn't running for President

Isn't setting international policy. Isn't primarily responsible for peace in the Middle East. The writer is entitled to call Hamas terrorists anything he/she wants. The President of the United States is not in the same position. Unless of course Howard Dean is changing U.S. policy again, Hamas is now a legitimate fighting organization to be respected as soldiers and to be fought full-force by Israel's soldiers. Let the war begin. Designating them as criminal terrorists is the only thing that gives the US any ability to keep Israel from going in full force as it is.

[Duder]

58. You're half right...

Labeling them "terrorists" though, is what legitimizes bombing civilian populations.

"According to the text of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, Part III, Section 1, Art. 28: "The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations." Hamas is at war with Israel. Hamas "soldiers" do not wear uniforms as required by international law, and they fight their wars in heavily populated civilian areas. Thus, Israel’s military strike against a known terrorist is appropriate within the context of international law."

Denice Gary Pandol, is a research analyst and instructor on Middle Eastern affairs. She has conducted special studies for the U.S. Departments of State and Defense, the Central Intelligence Agency, and other defense-related establishments.

[sandnsea]

60. Look at what it says

First, note the term soldier being put in parenthesis, meaning the writer is not actually equating Hamas terrorists to soldiers. Rather, she is making a legal argument for allowing the Israeli military to strike in cities. She is actually saying that Hamas acts as a type of soldier in a war in their own minds, not terrorists, so they are legitimate military targets. I think military attacks in Palestinian areas are wrong and I think most of the world agrees with that. So I'm not quite sure how this person's opinion justifies interchanging the word soldier with terrorist.

[MercutioATC]

56. Typical American arrogance.

We arrogantly classify Hamas fighters as "terrorists" because we don't like their politics. What did we call the now-terrorists in Afghanistan when they were fighting the Soviets using...yes...terrorist tactics? We called them "freedom fighters".

Agree with them or not, Hamas members are fighting for their beliefs. They are soldiers.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

57. Indeed, Ashcroft probably thinks we are "terrorists" at DU

but I prefer to think of us as "soldiers" :)

[DemBones DemBones]

61. I'm more concerned about Dean's conflicting statements on

the I/P situation than about him referring to Hamas fighters as "soldiers" but he needs to correct that, too. I don't see any of it as ruling him out as a candidate but he needs to clarify his positions and perhaps talk to someone who can straighten him out about what to say and what not to say about sensitive international issues. Dean doesn't have experience in Washington so he needs some help in this area.

Before this came up, I wouldn't have referred to Hamas members as "soldiers," but I'd never thought about it (the wording) as an issue, since I'm not a government representative. It's not difficult to intuit why "soldiers" is an inappropriate term, however. The fact that writers for newspapers use the term soldiers in referring to Hamas doesn't mean that people representing the U.S. government can do so.

[virtualobserver]

62. they are soldiers.......

and it is a war.

It is crazy to argue over which word to use to describe them.

[Duder]

64. I believe that the origin of the word "soldier" is French

So perhaps in today's crazy world we're using a different word then we did back in the 1700's.

;)

[virtualobserver]

70. yes, the current definition fits Hamas better....

than the original meaning.

[DemBones DemBones]

66. If you call them soldiers, you are granting them a credible position,

a justifiable reason for attacking and killing civilians. Real soldiers (i.e. members of a nation's army) who abide by the Geneva Convention, international law, generally accepted rules of fair play, etc., simply don't deliberately target civilians. They attempt to avoid harming civilians. Suicide bombers are guerillas.

I think Hamas has some legitimate complaints, and they do some things that are acceptable. Attacking civilians is neither legitimate nor acceptable.

But most of all, it matters what words are used by any person representing the U.S. For diplomatic purposes, I think you have to avoid calling them "soldiers" or going to the other extreme and calling them "terrorists" or "murderers," as those words are inflammatory. I think "fighters" or "militants" might work, or perhaps guerillas. I imagine the diplomatic corps has a short list of acceptable terms. An acceptable term has to be one that doesn't raise hackles on either side.

I don't like calling every conflict a "war," either, but that's another issue.

[virtualobserver]

71. our "legitimate" soldiers have killed civilians.......

in Dresden, Hiroshima, Panama City, Kabul, and Baghdad.

It is time to stop playing word games. War is War. Death is Death.
Death by "liberation" is just as final as death by terrorist attack.

[sandnsea]

68. When they're in battle

The only articles I've seen posted with Hamas or al qaeda referred to as soldiers are when they are actually in direct battle with Israeli soldiers. Soldier to soldier. Not terrorist to civilian.

[MercutioATC]

72. And our "shock and awe" campaign wasn't meant to "terrorize"?

We have technology on our side so we have the luxury of looking good by not targeting civilians. That said, how many civilians DID our soldiers kill?

How is carpet bombing different than detonating a truck full of explosives? We BRAGGED about the "shock and awe" campaign. It was SUPPOSED to terrorize civilians. Are we really so different?

[sandnsea]

73. intimidate the soldiers

into not fighting, that was what shock and awe was about. And no U.S. soldier intentionally loaded up a truck with explosives and set it off in a market. The Iraq war is an illegal tragedy as far as I'm concerned, but equating soldiers to terrorists is equally disgusting to me.

[valniel]

74. I don't think

that the US, nor our NATO allies, have targeted civilians since WW II. Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima were horrible acts of war designed to convince evil politicians to lay down the arms!

[whirlygigspin]

75. If this is the standard for calling someone a soldier,

Real soldiers (i.e. members of a nation's army) who abide by the Geneva Convention, international law, generally accepted rules of fair play,

Then it would be fair to call the American millitary mercinaries.
hello Guantanamo!
how many have you tortured to death this week?

[dsc]

76. It is crystal clear what Dean meant

He was obviously responding to the idea that these people aren't legitimate targets for Israel to assinate. I defended Kerry when he awkwardly said that we should "Get over" the election of 2000 on similar grounds. It is disappointing, though hardly surprising, to see Kerry and his supporters do this. It is clear to anyone with above room temperature IQ what Dean meant.

[valniel]

77. That members of Hamas should be treated as soldiers?

[dsc]

80. yes as opposed to either political leaders

or civilians both of which positions have been argued by pro Palestian people in the past. Soldiers are legitimate targets, the other two aren't.

[DrFunkenstein]

85. Are Terrorists Legitimate Targets?

Then why not just call a spade a spade? My guess is that Dean got wind of his supporters' anxiety about his AIPAC/Sharon trip and he overstated his case. Not the end of the world, but not very Presidential, either.

[poskonig]

78. Look at the definition of the word 'soldier'; Dean is correct.

sol·dier ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sljr)
n.

1. One who serves in an army.
2. An enlisted person or a noncommissioned officer.
3. An active, loyal, or militant follower of an organization.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

84. Not surprised, Dean usually is :)

[Mairead]

81. Bad choice by Kerry

Dean is right -- they are soldiers. Resistance fighters are soldiers. The army might be informal, and the tactics vicious, but their cause is just if any cause is.

I really regret that Kerry was talked into saying that, because he knows better.

[DrFunkenstein]

86. So The Ends Justify The Means?

This sounds somewhat familiar. Didn't Dean...nah.

Their tactics may be vicious, but their cause is just. Spoken like a true Kucinich fan. (Not really. I'm actually kinda shocked, Mairead.)

[Mairead]

87. As Alinsky said: Always

The ends must always justify the means. But that doesn't mean that any end justifies any means.

The crappy part is that out of our own racist hatreds we created a situation that we can't justify but won't fix. So the Palestinian Arabs are trying to fix it in the only way they can. What else could they do?

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

82. Kerry the elitist

Wow, I'm actually surprised to see Kerry so pompous in a statement. He's really full of himself, isn't he? Not to mention, he's also wrong.

Dean Dean Dean Dean...

Kerry's frustration at working his ass off and not gaining any momentum is starting to show. It must really suck to work so hard to no avail.

[opstachuck]

83. we're turning into republicans

we're becoming as petty and irrational as they are. i think clark should just wait util the day before the first primary and waltz in unscathed. all this shit just makes the whole democratic party look like a bunch of whining assholes, and the posts i've seen here lately only seem to back that up. if kerry thinks he's helping his cause by resorting to this bullshit then he's a moron because he's treating us as if we're morons. don't get me wrong, i like him, but this shit makes me think less of him. this whole thing is becoming very annoying. i just hope it dosn't turn away prospective voters

[renie408]

90. Everybody pretty much knows

where I stand on Dean (and if you could let me in on it, I would appreciate it), but this seems like reaching to me. Jeez, they need to start saying 'Hamas Persons'. I agree that this is like the 'evenhanded' thing and would only upset people looking to be upset with Dean.