Now that Moore endorses Clark, what do you guys think???

[tedzbear]

Will he run? Can he win?

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0913-06.htm


:kick:

[ott]

1. Moore doesn't endorse Clark

This is not an endorsement. For me, it's too early for that. I have liked Howard Dean (in spite of his flawed positions in support of some capital punishment, his grade "A" rating from the NRA, and his opposition to cutting the Pentagon budget). And Dennis Kucinich is so committed to all the right stuff. We need candidates in this race who will say the things that need to be said, to push the pathetically lame Democratic Party into have a backbone -- or get out of the way and let us have a REAL second party on the ballot.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0913-06.htm

[Tinoire]

7. Go figure

The man writes it himself in black and white but yet... :shrug:

[jiacinto]

11. Of course it isn't

Moore will be out campaigining and urging everyone to vote Green next year!

[tsipple]

2. Maybe and Yes

I think almost any of the Democratic candidates can win.

[Cha]

3. I think I'm surprised! But then I read the article and now I know

why! That is really very poignant! General Clark came to Michael Moore's aid ...

I'm glad to know this! This is something like my candidate Howard Dean would do!

[Rowdyboy]

4. Thanks...

I used the link to urge Clark to run.

[roughsatori]

5. It's not an endorsement

It is praise and appreciation for Clark's support of Moore. It is a good piece.

The last fellow Moore did endorse for President did not do so well in the election. It is funny that the Michael Moore haters now quote him daily.

You may not get many new responses, I think this is about the 6th or 7th time that post has been linked in the last 24 hours.


If Clark declares, and IF he wins the primary I don't think he will muster the votes to beat Shrub. But then again, I think the same is true for the candidate I do support at this time--but it is early for both of them.

[flamingyouth]

6. I think it's great

I think we have an excellent chance of taking back the White House, which is rightfully ours.

[Northwind]

8. When it comes to the decison of who I support.

No one's opinion matters as much as mine. Period.

[Tinoire]

9. "This is not an endorsement"

This is not an endorsement. For me, it's too early for that. I have liked Howard Dean (in spite of his flawed positions in support of some capital punishment, his grade "A" rating from the NRA, and his opposition to cutting the Pentagon budget). And Dennis Kucinich is so committed to all the right stuff. We need candidates in this race who will say the things that need to be said, to push the pathetically lame Democratic Party into have a backbone -- or get out of the way and let us have a REAL second party on the ballot.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0913-06.htm

I just don't see how that can possibly be so misconstrued :shrug:

[regnaD kciN]

10. I think the same as before...

...I don't know enough about Clark to make a judgement. While I'm not ruling him out (I'm strongly leaning toward Dean right now, but haven't yet formally chosen him as "my" candidate), I need to see a lot more before I can decide about him. Even if he announces next week, it will probably take some time of watching him on the campaign trail to see.

Unless something dramatic changes, I can't imagine making a final decision on who I'm supporting until early next year. We do have a lot of time before the votes start to count...

[LWolf]

12. I think exactly the same as I did before.

I'm sure Clark would be a fine candidate. I'm not interested, for a few reasons:

1. Not to be crude, but, shit or get off the pot. Pardon me. If you wanted me to take you seriously as a candidate, you should have declared some time back. Don't run on rumor that you "might" declare. I have a finite amount of time to study, consider, and campaign. The "what would you do if...." is outside of what I'm going to spend my energy on.

2. Personal bias. I don't trust the military mindset. I'm not saying the general population should feel that way; I'm not saying anyone should agree with me. I'm sure Clark is a fine man. I don't really want to know one way or the other. I'm saying that a lifetime's experience and too much abuse too early in that lifetime leaves me with a PTSD reaction to men, or anyone, whose power rests in might making right. I might respect who they are, and agree that they are good people, but I don't trust them. I don't invite them to dinner. Or to the White House.

3. I've studied the candidates courageous enough to throw their hat in the ring and campaign. I've made my choice; the candidate who most closely aligns with my ideals. That's what the primary is for. In the general election, I will support whoever wins the nomination, whether I like their positions or not. The primary is for me to vote for what I actually believe in.

[eridani]

13. Letter to Michael Moore

May be passed along for attribution--Shawn beat me to this.


Mr. Moore,

I wanted to share with you a passage from a piece written by someone who, until roughly a week ago, I considered a kindred spirit. The letter, written on 15 April 1999 says in part,

"As we file our taxes today (procrastinators, all of us), and we sign our names on the bottom line of our 1040 tax forms, perhaps we should ask ourselves if what we are doing is signing a death warrant for people we don't even know. Because each night, for the past three weeks, millions of dollars of bombs and missiles -- that you and I paid for -- are being used to kill people in the former Yugoslavia. That makes you and I culpable in their execution."

As you know, http://www.commondreams.org/kosovo/views/mmoore.htm you were the writer of this piece. So imagine my surprise when I read your remarks last week about Wesley Clark, the architect of that war. If you and I are culpable of the execution of thousands of Yugoslavians, as I believe we are, what of Wesley Clark's culpability? They were killed on his orders -- civilian targets were bombed, cities full of Slobodan Milosovic's political opponents were killed on his command. And, unlike you or me, he was personally responsible for their deaths.

Is http://www.zpub.com/un/clark.html Wesley Clark's well documented record now irrelevant to you?

Clark should be standing shoulder to shoulder with Milosovic at the Hague. You believed it in 1999: what has changed? Are we really so scared of Bush that we should cast aside our morality when we cast our ballot?

Dennis Kucinich represents everything in which you believe -- at least he did when you stood alongside Ralph Nader in 2000. The difference is that he stands as a Democrat. Your endorsement of Kucinich now would propel him into this race as a serious player whether the same media that ignored Stupid White Men would acknowledge it or not.

And you know this. Or at least you should. Yet you choose to lend your powerful voice to a war criminal you once opposed.

I agreed with your letter back in 1999 when you said, "Now, it is time for all of us to stop Clinton and his disgusting, hypocritical fellow democrats who support him in this war. It is amazing to watch all these 'liberal' congress members line up behind the President."

So did Dennis Kucinich -- in 1999 and today. And, it should be said, he was the only candidate in this race to do so (he's the only serious anti-war candidate).

I've admired your bravery and your willingness to speak to power in the past. It's a shame that out of fear you're turning your back on those principles now, when the political embodiment of them so desperately needs your support.

Best,
Shawn Redden

[Tinoire]

14. Great Letter. Passing this one back to all the people

forwarding that MM "endorsement".

Thanks

[Mairead]

15. That's excellent!

I'm going to mail Moore and make the same points.

[DannyRed]

17. Moore's letter

is an encouragement to run, not an endorsement.

In that letter he also praises (highly) both Kucinich and Dean for their various stances on various issues.

The letter is also an indication of maturity and growth by Michael Moore in regards to his past statements.

Clark is human, he was placed in charge of an operation. His job was to follow orders and complete a mission.

I was and continue to be highly critical of that mission and the way it was carried out, and I think Clark should be criticized and questioned about his decisions, demeanor, and role in Kosovo and Serbia.

Those criticisms and questions do not change the fact that Clark is human, seems to be a good human, and adds a lot to the race, in a lot of ways.

Note, I am a Dean supporter.

I have said this before, and I will say it again, we NEED to grow up.

This should NOT be about scoring points on political and party allies. This should NOT be about smear, distortion, and lies, misrepresentation of past stances, presentation of old stances as indicative of present positions, or anything else.

This SHOULD be about valid arguments, valid criticisms, and honest presentations of the candidates, their positions, and their critiques of the other candidates.

WHEN are we going to figure out that infighting will LOSE us the votes of the majority of citizens by TURNING THEM OFF, TUNING THEM OUT, and ALIENATING THE BASE.

[CMT]

16. Al Franken is appearing with Dean on Saturday at a fund raiser

and that is not an endorsement--neither is Michael Moore endorsing Clark.