Three Things That Trouble Me About The Clark Campaign

[clar]

Note: I intend to post similar threads on Dean, Edwards, Gephardt and Kerry. These are the candidates I consider most likely to end up as the nominee. I'm doing it alphabetically. So on to Clark:

1. I am increasingly getting the feeling that Clark's being pushed by certain insider elements to be the anti-Dean candidate. I'm no fan of the DLC and much as I like Clinton, I don't want him playing kingmaker. And I want Hillary as far away as possible from the whole process. The perception that Clark's candidacy (should he be the nom) is Clinton redux, is certainly going to be used by the republicans to mobilize their voters. I want to add that I believe that the DLC and certain party big whigs are threatened by the grassroots movement.

2. It's late. I really, really wish he'd announced a couple of months ago. And please, don't give me the "it's an effective strategy" line. I don't see that at all. The buzz created is within a tiny sliver of democratic activists, not the voting public, or even the majority of the dem party. Remember, most people don't give a hoot about the election yet. I think had he announced earlier he could have developed a grassroots following and small donor base much like Dean's. Now, he's going to have to raise a lot of money pronto. Where's that money going to come from?

3. His lack of experience in elecive politics. I certainly don't think this is insurmountable. I like his experience and background. But he doesn't have any domestic experience, and he's never had to be held accountable by the electorate.

Having said this, I enthusiastically welcome General Clark into the fray.

[ewagner]

1. I welcome him also

and, like the others, he will be tested.

btw...good point about Hillary. No matter who the eventual nominee is, Hillary's visible support will only galvanize the right wing to vote in hoards.....

[sugarcookie]

2. I agree with the first point

you made. I got the feeling after the Pelosi letter came out. It is just a feeling and I hope I am wrong.

I do like Wesley Clark and will support him if he is wins the nom.

[OKNancy]

3. So?

1. It is certainly possible that more experienced pols see the problems with a Dean win. It is within their right to push whomever they want. They don't live in a vacuum either. There are a lot of people who don't think Dean would be the best candidate, and not just DLC types. Perhaps they are listening to those people. Since Wesley Clark's so-far campaign is grassroots, I don't think they have any such fears of grassroots campaigns.

2. Doesn't matter. There are plenty of debates left, and there is plenty of time. Since you aren't involved in the nuts and bolts of the Clark movement, you probably have no idea how widespread and organized the campaign already is. I was surprised too. I signed up two days ago and am really happy with the e-mails and the one phone call I already received.

3. Nothing I have read about the man questions his abilities. If he goes full throttle with this, I don't see the elective issue much of a problem.

If Clark is the anti-Dean, then there must be a need for such a person. If Dean is the best, then everything will fall into place and he will be the stronger for it.

Ain't politics fun?

[blm]

4. It isn't just the DLC types. Good liberals are wary of Dean's record

that placed him squarely in the center.

A few in the DLC just got mad that Dean tried to hide his close association with them. He hid them like Mel Gibson hides his wife.

[renie408]

18. About that number 2

No matter how you slice it, it takes money, big MONEY to run a campaign. Perhaps he can create momentum, but other candidates already have their campaign ads in the can and are running them and have time now to pound the pavement. Even the seriously pro-Clark would have to admit that he is going to have to play catch up and that has the potential to hurt him. Also, while we all just have to wait and see how it plays out, he has not exactly proven himself to move with lightning speed in the decision making process. He is going to have to mull less and move more, A LOT more, now. I am not saying that he can't, just that it will remain to be seen.

[kang]

5. I have recently come to support Clark

but you make some valid points. First, I'm not sure there's some DLC conspiracy here, but just that many Dems know that they'll need some kind of response to Pres. Bush's making Nat'l Security the key issue next year. Gen. Clark isn't a bad response on this front. Besides, there is a very distinct diff. btw Clinton and Clark: Vietnam and over 30 yrs of military service.

Second, the intensity with which liberals in this country want to beat Pres. Bush in 2004 is so great. If Clark can hold his own early on in his campaign (debates, TV appearances, etc.), he'll get the money. Besides, we've always been the party with less money. I'm more concerned that our message resonates with voters. Part of that is who delivers that message. Yes, I would have preferred that he entered earlier too, but running for president is a big decision and I hardly fault a man for taking the time to make the right decision.

Finally, your last concern is my primary concern. Although I have come to support Gen. Clark (in large part due to his past positions on Rwanda, Bosnia, and Serbia), he is facing the incredibly tough task of learning Campaigning 101 while running for PRESIDENT. However, it is my hope that the media will have lowered expectations because he has never held elected office and he will get good reviews when he excels. It's not like the media was incredibly hard on Pres. Bush in 2000 or even Arnold Schwart(sp? I give up) now running for governor in CA.

You failed to bring up one more concern: there are already negative rumors floating out there that Clark is "abrasive" or a "control-freak" (a general that's a control freak? shocking!). He will have to make sure that these tags are soundly put to rest from the get go.

Sorry for the novel!

[robbedvoter]

6. 1. Clark was DRAFTED by a grassroots campaign

2. Clinton announced in October
3.We'll see.

[clar]

7. I know Clinton announced

in October, but

1) This isn't 1991.

2) Does anyone know if Clinton was actively running prior to his October announcement?

[ProfessorPlum]

25. Clinton had been actively running for president for at least

4 years prior to his official announcement, and had clearly been thinking of that when he delivered his keynote address to the Democratic national convention in 1988.

[Nicholas_J]

15. Was HE?

Clark was positioning himself in the public eye fo a considerable period of time before a "Draft Clark " grassroots campaign began. Inevitably, a grass roots draft anyone campaign begins around that sort of political posturing (not being used in a derogatory sense, as I would support a Clark nomination)for president, but not for V.P.

[Tinoire]

27. Clark was not "drafted".

A General for the Democrats?
By Viveca Novak
Monday, November 18, 2002 Posted: 5:51 PM EST

Retired four-star general Wesley Clark, who has been famously opaque about his party preference and political future, met privately last week in New York City with a group of high-rolling Democrats and told them he was seriously considering a run for the White House, sources tell TIME.

Lunching with about 15 Democratic donors and fund raisers at the Park Avenue offices of venture capitalist Alan Patricof, a strong Gore backer in '00 who is neutral so far for '04, Clark laid out his credentials and his differences with George W. Bush.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/11/18/timep.general.tm/index.html

That's some "Draft"!

[polpilot]

8. Dean will always be the outsider to 97% of the career politicos. All of

them. All professional politicians, career politicians, past politicians, DLC, DNC, & lobbyists are threatened by a statesman like Howard Dean.

The Clark announcement feels like a Perot sequel however my first impression is that Clark has been given a pass to the 'insiders club' for his role this year as the 'spoiler'. This 'pass' expires November '04.

The 'Clark decision' was formulated without Clark & around a table with a $65 bottle of scotch.

Dean '04...

[Nicholas_J]

11. Problem with Dean is

That his status as a Republican insider is begionning to come to the fore, especially with comments like Gephardts comparison of Dean's Medicaire ideas to Gingrich's. THe press is stil hammering Dean, it is not going to disappear, and the reat of Deans coalition building with republicans in Vermont, as opposed to Democrats, is coming into focus.

[renie408]

19. Well, those comments are certainly pertinent to the discussion...NOT

[DrFunkenstein]

9. My Three Cents

1. The Clinton's are very invested in 2008. They do NOT want to see a Dem victory in 2004. I am very wary of Clinton's intentions.

2. Only 4 months to go. Tick tock, tick tock.

3. Lack of elective experience isn't an issue. He can get a Rooser Reeve like Eisenhower and do fine. My trouble is that he has about as much agenda as Schwarzenegger. What is his health care plan? How is going to create jobs?

None of these are dead ends for Clark. It will be interesting to see how he plays out, especially for the less-qualified anti-war candidates.

[polpilot]

13. Good summation.

.

[Nicholas_J]

10. Clark IS

The anti-Dean candidate. A pro DLC, longtime friend of Washinton insiders outsiders who's campaign is designed to pull votes from Dean.

Dean' comments about Hamas show that Dean is clearly NO statesman, but a charlatan, who would place the nation at a greater rtisk than it has ever been in its entire history if the public is duped iunto nominating him.

His fear of debating Kerry is most indicative of this.

Dean coull not even respond to Kerry;d challenge himself, but had to send Tippi to do it, Deans campaign fearful that Dena would srew up again:

A Cacophony of Hoofbeats

Some have compared Dr. Dean to Seabiscuit, the thoroughbred who came from nowhere to become the most popular and successful horse to race in the 1930's. But now he is sounding a bit like War Admiral, the Triple Crown winner who for months shunned Seabiscuit's offer for a match race.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/15/politics/campaigns/15DEAN.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5062&en=535eb627674de2fa&partner=GOOGLE&ex=1064203200

[clar]

12. But

the likelihood is that Clark will pull more potential Kerry supporters into his sphere than Dean supporters.

[Nicholas_J]

14. Only one newpaper makes that a possibility

But Dean stands to lose the most to Clark eventually, as Dean is relying on his "OUTIDER" which is not true, and much can be brought up ti show how INSIDER he is. Clark is the real outsider, and this will hurt Dean more than any other candidate.

[DrFunkenstein]

16. How Many People Do You Really Think Support Kerry Because Of

Vietnam? That may be what gets them through the door, but they stay because Kerry is a brilliant man, and the more you learn the more you like him. The only thing that keeps people from Kerry's door is his IWR vote, the very reason why Clark will take support from the policy and credentially-challenged Dean.

<>

I'm a cool rockin' Daddy in the USA!

[clar]

21. You know Dr. Funk,

I really like Kerry. Although I disagreed with his IRW vote, and believe it was politically voted, his voting record aside from that, cancels that one out. (What an awkward sentence!)

Much as I may like him, I do worry about his appeal to the electorate. I suspect (and I think it's terribly unfair) his patrician air and aristocratic drawl put people off. I further suspect, that that's how he'd come off even without the proper Boston upbringing. That's not a criticism. I don't find it off putting at all, but I have no illusions that I'm the average voter.

[DrFunkenstein]

22. That's One of Those Things Out Of My Hands

I think he's warmed up considerably during the race. He seems like a genuine person, only a little dorky. But on the campaign trail I've seen him able to connect with the people around him. Yes, he does have a sense of gravity about him (maybe it's the eyes), but I think that people are looking for somebody they can trust, not a frat buddy.

Candidate: John Kerry
Category: General Likeability
Grade: A

One of the most grating elements of American politics is the impulse for rich candidates to affect the symbolism of the middle class. (Witness the dauphin George W. Bush at his hardscrabble Texas ranch, jus' clearin' brush.) Cultural experience is of course not the sum total of anyone's character, but the impulse to obscure a privileged background for political gain is a glaring character flaw.

And in a primary where John Edwards pushes his millworker pedigree with Tourette's-like frequency, and Dick Gephardt counters that neither of his parents finished high school, the pressure for the better heeled candidates to play down their not-so-humble beginnings must be intense.

So give John Kerry credit for bucking this condescending campaign ritual. At a Mason City, Iowa, bowling alley, he framed his background in the noblest political tradition: "George Bush went to a nice, fancy high school like I did, but I came out of my fancy high school asking the question, 'Why can't everybody have a school like this?'"

That hits all the right notes--candor about inherited wealth, noblesse oblige, and a concern for the broader national interest. The media frequently invoke Kerry's Brahmin heritage to suggest that he's culturally isolated from the electorate, but the honesty and civic-mindedness Kerry displayed yesterday are quintessentially American cultural virtues.

http://www.tnr.com/primary/index.mhtml?pid=608

<>

[Egnever]

24. This poll sugests

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=poll_vote&poll_id=1600&choice=3&forum=104&topic_id=348176

That there are a lot of people out there that suport him based on just that. Dean still shows strong support whith clark in the race while kerry slips to an also ran. It certainly isnt clark policy that drives these results since not many know what his policies are yet.

[renie408]

20. That's what I thought, too

That people who are voting based on worries over the Iraq situation who would have previously been attracted to Kerry might be drawn to Clark.

[renie408]

17. I agree all the way around

Plus I would add that I am concerned that his military career will hurt him with some people, just as it helps him with others.

That said, I am less worried about him now that I have read up on him. I mean, I am more OK with the chance of him winning the nomination.

[kang]

23. Do you really think anti-war Lefties

wouldn't vote against Bush in 2004? That's what I want to know. Clark has already said that war should be the last option, but I'm sorry that's plain old crazy if there are people out there who wouldn't vote for him because he served his country for 30+ years and would rather have another 4 years of a GOP White House.

If Clark's military service hurts him with enough liberals, he won't win the nomination anyways. If Michael Moore thinks he should run (didn't endorse though), then I think a fair number of hard core Lefties should be ok with him.

[Tinoire]

26. Let me guess

Centrist thinking right? Centrists have underestimated the Left for a few election cycles now. I'd hate to see the same mistale repeated.

Simplifying it to "because he served his country for 30+ years and would rather have another 4 years of a GOP White House" shows me the Centrists still don't have a clue about how to win a Democratic election.

You would have to clone Bill Clinton, his ability to sell a broken refrigerator to an eskimo and his amazing charisma to repeat that feat.

...And that just hasn't happened... yet.

Anti-war Lefties (you say that so affectionately ;)) will, of course, never vote for Bush but too many are very tired of voting against people or issues. From now on I'm only voting for candidates and what I believe in.

If Dems lose the White House, with all the support we have by screwing up the best chance we've ever had to get a real Progressive in the White House because the DLC is too avaricious to give up its power, then we can chalk this one up to another DLC 'miscalculation'.

Color me 'plain old crazy'.

[renie408]

28. Should you maybe try a little decaf??

I voiced a concern. I did not shit on your candidate. Calm down.

And yes, I happen to think that there are quite a few people out there who will simply not vote if they think the candidate in question is not the kind of man they want as President. I happen to think that Clark has many admirable things going for him and while I still like Edwards, I could live with Clark. I have reservations about Clark, that does not mean I think he is the devil.